The Color Line.... In The Church?, how are we divided? Options

[ShellyofTexas]

I saw my newborn pictures.....

I came out dark and lovely with a full Afro.

They took the picture while I was still kinda bloody.

Then one with a skully on.


In conclusion,

I was born with dark skin....and I am as good as any and better than many.

[princessdi]

I believe the only point at issue was that fact all babies do not come out the same color. Not their equality.

[ShellyofTexas]

I believe the only point at issue was that fact all babies do not come out the same color. Not their equality.

I just threw in the last statement to confirm my egotism as a single person.

[LeePaDee]

I just threw in the last statement to confirm my egotism as a single person.
------stroke..... s-t-r-o-k-e..... ego feel better now???
(sorry, you are new here, but the sarcasm mood just hit me... I should wait till you know us better... please excuse)

[Clay]

I came across this in today's Washington Post... the demographic paradigm shift we are seeing in our own church is not restricted to Adventism... the article in question says the following in part:
The rest of the article is here

In His service,
Mr. J

what will be interesting is that as the members who reside outside the States begin calling the shots, what will the members within the States do? Could it be that at some point the color line issue becomes moot?

[LeePaDee]

I doubt that the color line will become moot, Clay.... I believe that, as you suggest, the residence of most of the members will soon be outside the USA. And that will be one more reason for division... us vs them.

[Clay]

I doubt that the color line will become moot, Clay.... I believe that, as you suggest, the residence of most of the members will soon be outside the USA. And that will be one more reason for division... us vs them.

enough to cause a split?

[LeePaDee]

we are a people that believe in persecution:
the push will come from outside those that wear our name... but the split will come from within. Those outside our group will find THIS (color division & USA vs them others) as a means of "dividing and conquering". That's the trend I see...

[PeacefulBe]

I came across this in today's Washington Post... the demographic paradigm shift we are seeing in our own church is not restricted to Adventism... the article in question says the following in part:
The rest of the article is here

In His service,
Mr. J

Mr. J,
Thanks for this article!

But the largest adjustments are coming on the religious left. For decades it has preached multiculturalism, but now, on further acquaintance, it doesn't seem to like other cultures very much. Episcopal leaders complain of the threat of "foreign prelates," echoing anti-Catholic rhetoric of the 19th century. An activist at one Episcopal meeting urged the African bishops to "go back to the jungle where you came from." Not since Victorians hunted tigers on elephants has the condescension been this raw.

OUCH! So, whether coming from the religious right or from the religious left, if your take on religion is motivated by an agenda rather than by a relationship with your God, your fruit is going to be really rotten and stinky.

I appreciate the way Michael Gerson refers to the countries typically tagged "Third World" as "the global south".


I love the way

[Grith]

The question must be asked.... SE indicated he was told/taught that black folks wanted to form their own conferences so thats what happened.... why was that misinformation given a life and perpetuated? Does that help or hinder the possibility of ever getting together?

I can remember knowing about the regional conferences as a kid, but didn't really understand them. When I finally asked about them as an adult, I was told that it was EGW who had them set up. But of course that isn't true. She never advocated any such thing. I finally found out that they had been set up in the 1940's because the white conference leaders didn't want to share power with their black brethren. I ask the same question that others ask: why are they still in place? Reagan said in Germany, Mr, Gorbechev, tear down this wall! Why aren't people standing up and saying, Mr. GC President, Tear down this wall! I've heard the reasons why, and have read them here. It's too bad that pride has been permited to create such an impermiable wall.

Reading this topic has been most interesting. I first found BSDA when I came looking for information about the Shelton divorce a few years ago. I thought about joining, kept looking at the name, finally decided I couldn't because I wasn't the right color. Does that make me a racist or prejudice? If it does, O, boy, am I in trouble. My best friend and prayer partner is from the Caribbean. My daughter-in-law is a lovely black woman. My church membership is in a regional conference church.

when it comes to our churches being diverse or supporting diversity, the test will come when a predominately white church begins to morph into a predominately diverse church with whites not being in power or leadership positions will whites run because they are not in control.....

I have seen this happen from the wrong side. The church that I belonged to in the South several years ago was racially diverse and was located in an area of the city that was becoming largely black. We heard rumors for several years that the (white) coference wanted to close down the church, which they repeatedly denied. We moved to another state (due to husband's job), and a while later the conference did just what they had denied they wanted to do. They closed it and eventually sold it to the regional conference. The members that had been there were unhappy with what happened. They didn't want it closed, but were unable to stop it. The conference came in with an attorney and threats, from what was related to me by those who were present, to prevent any protest.

An aquaintance who was working at am academy told me this story. Denominational workers from other countries who come to the USA are not paid full salary until they have gone to college in the USA to "upgrade" their education, even when they are graduates of Adventist colleges in another country! The father of one of the students (the family was from Africa) in her dorm was filling two roles in a white conference and was being paid half salary! I cannot believe that God takes lightly to such chicanery. In my book that is theft.

We have Jesus' very clear example of how we are to treat one another. The Syro-phonecian woman, the Samaritan woman, the Greeks in the temple, the 10 lepers (one was a Samaritan). Jesus was meek and lowly in heart. He was humble. When we are meek, lowly, and humble, then we will follow Paul's counsel and esteem others better than ourselves. There can be no place in the heart of a growing godly, Christian for pride of place, race, or face. If we cannot accept each other here on earth, I'm quite sure that God isn't going to segregate heaven to accomodate our prejudices.

[NubianSista_C]

I can remember knowing about the regional conferences as a kid, but didn't really understand them. When I finally asked about them as an adult, I was told that it was EGW who had them set up. But of course that isn't true. She never advocated any such thing. I finally found out that they had been set up in the 1940's because the white conference leaders didn't want to share power with their black brethren. I ask the same question that others ask: why are they still in place? Reagan said in Germany, Mr, Gorbechev, tear down this wall! Why aren't people standing up and saying, Mr. GC President, Tear down this wall! I've heard the reasons why, and have read them here. It's too bad that pride has been permited to create such an impermiable wall.

Reading this topic has been most interesting. I first found BSDA when I came looking for information about the Shelton divorce a few years ago. I thought about joining, kept looking at the name, finally decided I couldn't because I wasn't the right color. Does that make me a racist or prejudice? If it does, O, boy, am I in trouble. My best friend and prayer partner is from the Caribbean. My daughter-in-law is a lovely black woman. My church membership is in a regional conference church.

I have seen this happen from the wrong side. The church that I belonged to in the South several years ago was racially diverse and was located in an area of the city that was becoming largely black. We heard rumors for several years that the (white) coference wanted to close down the church, which they repeatedly denied. We moved to another state (due to husband's job), and a while later the conference did just what they had denied they wanted to do. They closed it and eventually sold it to the regional conference. The members that had been there were unhappy with what happened. They didn't want it closed, but were unable to stop it. The conference came in with an attorney and threats, from what was related to me by those who were present, to prevent any protest.

An aquaintance who was working at am academy told me this story. Denominational workers from other countries who come to the USA are not paid full salary until they have gone to college in the USA to "upgrade" their education, even when they are graduates of Adventist colleges in another country! The father of one of the students (the family was from Africa) in her dorm was filling two roles in a white conference and was being paid half salary! I cannot believe that God takes lightly to such chicanery. In my book that is theft.

We have Jesus' very clear example of how we are to treat one another. The Syro-phonecian woman, the Samaritan woman, the Greeks in the temple, the 10 lepers (one was a Samaritan). Jesus was meek and lowly in heart. He was humble. When we are meek, lowly, and humble, then we will follow Paul's counsel and esteem others better than ourselves. There can be no place in the heart of a growing godly, Christian for pride of place, race, or face. If we cannot accept each other here on earth, I'm quite sure that God isn't going to segregate heaven to accomodate our prejudices.

If everyone had this mindset then there wouldn't be this problem of a colour divide . But I will keep saying it, the color divide will ALWAYS exist until Jesus comes as people are what they are whether christian or not as some things are just too deep seated within one to allow true racial and fair integration.
I know it does happen in some individual churches and thats great ,but overall the colour line will continue to divide and disintegrate the church from within until it is properly tackled head on. I know steps have been taken and we are continually been reminded of the great strides one has made; BUT we still have a very very long way to go yet .
I agree there will be no segregation in heaven so it makes sense to try and tackle it down here ; but many don't seem to think its an issue they need to adress within themselvess and are content for things to be 'as they always have been' ; so they still harbour their deep resentment and racists tendancies inspite of professing christianity. So sad ....

[LeePaDee]

NSC WROTE:
But I will keep saying it, the color divide will ALWAYS exist until Jesus comes, as people are what they are, whether christian or not. some things are just too deep seated within one to allow true racial and fair integration.
------What you are saying is that some things are more important than the leading of the Holy Spirit.... oooo the spiritual choices we make....

[Clay]

NSC WROTE:
But I will keep saying it, the color divide will ALWAYS exist until Jesus comes, as people are what they are, whether christian or not. some things are just too deep seated within one to allow true racial and fair integration.
------What you are saying is that some things are more important than the leading of the Holy Spirit.... oooo the spiritual choices we make....

exact-lee...... we believe that God can forgive us of our sins, change our lives, make us new, but ummmm we have to wait until he comes to solve the color issue here in the U.S. Interesting indeed.....

[Grith]

If everyone had this mindset then there wouldn't be this problem of a colour divide . But I will keep saying it, the color divide will ALWAYS exist until Jesus comes as people are what they are whether christian or not as some things are just too deep seated within one to allow true racial and fair integration.
I know it does happen in some individual churches and thats great ,but overall the colour line will continue to divide and disintegrate the church from within until it is properly tackled head on. I know steps have been taken and we are continually been reminded of the great strides one has made; BUT we still have a very very long way to go yet .
I agree there will be no segregation in heaven so it makes sense to try and tackle it down here ; but many don't seem to think its an issue they need to adress within themselvess and are content for things to be 'as they always have been' ; so they still harbour their deep resentment and racists tendancies inspite of professing christianity. So sad ....

Let’s not be overcome with discouragement and doubt. The world will not change for they follow the master of this world. We are not of the world, and God has promised that His people will reflect His character.

Jesus prayed just before His death:

And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: John 17:11, 21-22

Will Jesus prayer be answered? Is Jesus weak and therefore ineffective?

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth” Matthew 28:18. “but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world” John 16:33.

This tells me that Jesus has the power to bring about His will. He has all power and He gives the victory.

But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.1 Corinthians 15:57

Do we serve a weak God, or a powerful God? I have found that among many Christians today, even many Seventh-day Adventists, the belief has taken hold that we will not be able to live a life of victory over sin. But what does such an attitude say about the power of our God? the God who says that He has all power and He will give us that power? Does it say that we don't believe He is going to give us the power to overcome as he overcame? What might it say about how willing we are to surrender ourselves completely into His hands or about our love of sin? I am not saying it is easy, or that it is done in an instant. In fact, it's a daily battle. Paul explains it very well in these verses:

I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 1 Cor 15:31
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal. 2:20

It is a daily work that continues throughout each Christian’s lifetime. We never reach a point where we proclaim ourselves righteous or perfect. [Oops! There I've done it. I used an Adventist dirty word, but it is found in God’s word and in the Spirit of Prophecy so why has it become an Adventist dirty word?] The words of Job are appropriate here;

“If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse. Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.” Job 9:20-21.

God called Job “a perfect and an upright man.”

Before Jesus returns, the victory over racism will have been gained by His faithful people. They will have overcome everything that would stand in the way of true unity. When the world looks at them, they will see Jesus just as the Jewish rulers saw when they looked at Peter and John.

Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. Acts 4:13.

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:4-5.

Do we have the faith, as brothers and sisters in the same family, to believe that, through the power of Jesus Christ, we will overcome and that Jesus' prayer will be answered? That the children of God will become so color blind from looking at Jesus that when they look around them, they will be seeing as Jesus sees because they have permitted Christ to put His mind in them? I do. God’s word is sure.
Fran gave a beautiful testimony in the 3ABN section that fits in so well with this discussion. It is post #68 here.

[LeePaDee]

GRITH WROTE:
Before Jesus returns, the victory over racism will have been gained by His faithful people.
------We agree. The victory over *all* sin must be gained ... Those that choose to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit will have that victory. How typical, as we learn from the Gospels, those that lead the church organization choose not to follow the Holy Spirit. Rather, they are concerned with how to make the org *look* good, according to some idea that is not from God.