Doug In Denial? Or Danny's Bluff?, Options

[SoulEspresso]

you are so awesome SE. i was going to ask for someone to post addresses just as you did here. thanks so much.
btw, i wrote the illinois conf. Attn: Ken Denslow just to ask if he was on the 3abn board. he.... so ungraciously, did not write me back.

You are too kind.

In Ken's defense, I'm pretty close to someone who grew up with him. Word is, he'd give away his job right now if he could. I don't think anyone in the North American Division would even take it.

That isn't to say he shouldn't speak up--he should. But as a part of the institution myself I can see why he hasn't. Perhaps in Ken's case we ought to send cards and letters of sympathy and encouragement.

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: May 5 2007, 04:26 PM

[mozart]

That might work.

You are too kind.

In Ken's defense, I'm pretty close to someone who grew up with him. Word is, he'd give away his job right now if he could. I don't think anyone in the North American Division would even take it.

That isn't to say he shouldn't speak up--he should. But as a part of the institution myself I can see why he hasn't. Perhaps in Ken's case we ought to send cards and letters of sympathy and encouragement.

[Noahswife]

"I suggest you be more careful for what you say or you will find yourself looking down your nose at a Judge." quote from lee to Mozart

Now Mo, i suppose we should be nicer to the newly departed by choice but it really is a funny statement and one some of us really like based on personal experience. Do you think Lee is missing us?

Well, if there aren't any clear facts, why have donations dropped in the first quarter--in the seven figures? Seems like something's clear to someone!

SE.....I have been somewhat MIA for a couple weeks so do you know if Eirene has addressed the reason behind this anywhere?

A lot of Danny's supporters were in denial until they read save3abn.com. I believe if m
ore of them were to head on over and read without prejudice, there would be a house-cleaning.

The difficult part for me is my mother still prefers to deny the authenticity of TS's letter and claim the pregnancy test kit means something other than a joke gone bad. So for those who believe what they see on TV is real the internet is nothing but fabrication and lies. DS & Co have people like my mother convinced those who speak against DS and ask for transparency are the pawns of Satan. (yes that means me too)

Remember that we've got no evidence of egregiously bad behavior on Doug's part--unless you count ambition.

I think I would find one possible exception to this SE. If what I have come to believe is true, DB should be publicly forthright about what counselling was provided to the Sheltons by him. To not do so and be involved with DS in this manner suggests traits I do not find commendable. However, where would this proposed merger be if within the past 6 months DB had set the record straight which would be I believe a very different story than the one DS and his scribes have been telling.

That isn't to say he shouldn't speak up--he should. But as a part of the institution myself I can see why he hasn't. Perhaps in Ken's case we ought to send cards and letters of sympathy and encouragement.

Actually, SE I think this is also an excellent idea. I am much more comfortable giving encouragement then making demands or challenging someone i do not know. Thanks for the suggestion.

Lastly, my mother came home from church the sabbath after the announcement stating that due to the merger with AF they were told in church that 3abn would be back on skyangel within 3 weeks. I have not seen or heard this anywhere else unless I missed it here. Has anyone else heard anything about this?

nw
C"i"

This post has been edited by Noahswife: May 5 2007, 06:41 PM

[Observer]

You are too kind.

In Ken's defense, I'm pretty close to someone who grew up with him. Word is, he'd give away his job right now if he could. I don't think anyone in the North American Division would even take it.

That isn't to say he shouldn't speak up--he should. But as a part of the institution myself I can see why he hasn't. Perhaps in Ken's case we ought to send cards and letters of sympathy and encouragement.

I agree. I have been much the same.

At this point in time, he is not responding to anybody about 3-ABN.

Yes, one potential action of honor that he might to would be to resign from the 3-ABN Board. But, that would raise a tactical question as to whether or not that would be wise.

[mozart]

Lastly, my mother came home from church the sabbath after the announcement stating that due to the merger with AF they were told in church that 3abn would be back on skyangel within 3 weeks. I have not seen or heard this anywhere else unless I missed it here. Has anyone else heard anything about this?

nw
C"i"

unless i missed something, the merger had nothing to do with 3abn being back. it will be on dish, not skyangel. moses met with the dish network people in las vegas, during a convention, at the same time the "emergency meetings" were taking place so i don't see how it's possible that moses could have used that to persuade the dish ppl to put 3abn on dish using dish's echostar satellite. if i am not mistaken, the echostar satellite was damaged in an area that was leased by skyangel. when they couldn't restore all the damage had done, they (dish) made a deal with skyangel to restore, i think, 4 of the 6 stations that were lost. it was up to the powers that be at skyangel to decide who they would put back on the air and it was their choice. they chose not to put 3abn back on the air. [this is pure hearsay from a member at our church, but she said the woman who heads skyangel does not like danny and didn't want to do business with him anymore.] just hearsay, but makes one wonder considering how many viewers 3abn has.
so moses said that he met with the suits at dish during the convention and that they told him they had been inundated for so long to put 3abn on dish network that they finally decided to do it. so.........3abn will be on dish which can be acquired through the skyangel "dish" dish (lol) and receiver that we already have, but it will not actually be from or through skyangel. skyangel being the middleman per se. to sum it up: it will come through the same equipment but it will come directly from dish network, not skyangel network. it's so hard to explain conversations. hope that makes sense and is somewhat close to correct.

This post has been edited by mozart: May 5 2007, 06:58 PM

[sister]

I would like to ask you and many others on this forum some questions.
Do you know Danny or Linda personally?
Have you ever been to 3abn facilities?
Have you spent a lot of time with any of those talked about on this forum?

Well, 1. Doug has
2. Doug did and does
3. Doug has many times
4. Doug has
So the big question: Could it be remotely possible that Doug knows plenty that you people don't know and has made the decision of the merge accordingly.
To the lurkers here, this will make total sense.
To the rest of you, you will twist and turn it and end up with something ridiculous that makes no sense whatsoever.For instance, those of you that answered no to those questions, somehow, know more than Doug. But that's ok, I had my say.

Yes, I know Danny and Linda personally.
Yes, of course I have been to the 3ABN facilities and spent alot more time there than Doug.
Yes I have spent probably more time with those talked about on this forum than Doug has and know the truth that lays behind the public facade.

I truly doubt that it is even remotely possible that Doug knows plenty that I don't know and if he does know what I know and is still continuing on with the merger, than shame on him.

And shame on you, Eirene, for supporting Danny Shelton, if you really know the truth.

This post has been edited by sister: May 5 2007, 09:23 PM

[PrincessDrRe]

Umph!

[mozart]

I just watched Wintley Phipps on the TCW. His sermon was Thou Shalt Not Steal.
It was pretty good. He talked of Judas taking money from the bag to pay himself as he saw fit. A few dollars for "holding the bag", a few more for "protecting the bag" and a few more for "counting the money in the bag". He also talked about how Lucifer stole the hearts of the angels by deceiving them and making them promises of enlightenment as he did with Eve. It was pretty interesting the way he elaborated on that.
I can understand that these ministers associated with 3abn are very busy men and they cannot investigate like we can. This is why we need to get that pen and paper out and write to them.
There were lots of vacant seats in the auditorium.

Yes, I know Danny and Linda personally.
Yes, of course I have been to the 3ABN facilities and spent alot more time there than Doug.
Yes I have spent probably more time with those talked about on this forum than Doug has and know the truth that lays behind the public facade.

I truly doubt that it is even remotely possible that Doug knows plenty that I don't know and if he does know what I know and is still continuing on with the merger, than shame on him.

And shame on you, Eirene, for supporting Danny Shelton, if you really know the truth.

[PeacefulBe]

Lastly, my mother came home from church the sabbath after the announcement stating that due to the merger with AF they were told in church that 3abn would be back on skyangel within 3 weeks. I have not seen or heard this anywhere else unless I missed it here. Has anyone else heard anything about this?

nw
C"i"

If you read the article in 3abn World, you will find that it is felt that the announcement of the merger and the nearly simultaneous announcement that 3abn will be carried on Dish Network are being interpreted as showing God's providences. I believe something may have been mentioned about Skyangel on the April 19 merge announce show but I don't know details. I will check the show when I get back home unless someone has the information sooner.

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: May 5 2007, 09:55 PM

[Skyhook]

I believe something may have been mentioned about Skyangel on the April 19 merge announce show but I don't know details. I will check the show when I get back home unless someone has the information sooner.

They did mention something about Skyangel. It sounded a little confusing to me, but I wasn't very interested in what they were talking about. It sounded like they were saying they would be on Skyangel and Dish, but at the time I was not clear about what they had said.

[Pickle]

we must speak in the defense of having the freedom within our denomination to always be able to do that without being sued.

What an interesting thought. It conjures up images of the time, foretold under the third angel's message (undiluted), when we will not be able to speak and practice our faith. That's why Seventh-day Adventists have spent so much money over the years defending the rights of citizens to both practice and speak about their faith.

[Jnana15]

SE, thank you for ALL of the addresses! I'm about to get stupid busy writing letters and passing this information on to my friends.

[runner4him]

Lastly, my mother came home from church the sabbath after the announcement stating that due to the merger with AF they were told in church that 3abn would be back on skyangel within 3 weeks. I have not seen or heard this anywhere else unless I missed it here. Has anyone else heard anything about this?

PB asked the question above and here is what I heard....

Yes, I heard the very same thing this past week from a friend who works for someone who is very closely connected with ASI, DB, 3ABN. He/she said that they were very excited about the merger and that 3abn would be back on SkyAngel within 3 weeks - exact quote! They received an e-mail from DB with info about the merger and future plans. The rest of the word from my friend was just be quiet about all this...don't try to do the Lord's work....warning me.....I say.... where are the warriors who will serve in the Army of God and speak for Him? I was reminded today of the early Christians who were directed to deny their faith and burn that wee bit of incense before the idol or false god or be fed to the lions. It was such a little thing to go ahead and offer their allegiance to Rome and paganism....they could have reasoned..."You see I am only conforming outwardly....it is such a little thing....the good I can do later will make up for this act....if I die what good will I be able to do...I need to live to do great things - later."

Let us stand up today and not fear to do right no matter what the consequences might be. The Word is full of examples of men and women who made the choice to surrender all and stand for truth even if it meant they did it alone. We also have the examples of men and women who made the choice to bend the knee to Baal.

This post has been edited by runner4him: May 5 2007, 11:25 PM

[calvin]

Let us stand up today and not fear to do right no matter what the consequences might be. The Word is full of examples of men and women who made the choice to surrender all and stand for truth even if it meant they did it alone. We also have the examples of men and women who made the choice to bend the knee to Baal.

...and just what is the right thing we are to be doing? I for one am praying that God's will be done.

[watchbird]

This is a great idea, Soul. But it would be nice to have email addresses as well as snail mail ones. Most Conference websites have email addresses. General conference email addresses are not so easy to find, but I understand that the address format is lastname first initial... with no space between them, and the address itself is @gc.adventist.org ... (examples wilsont@gc.adventist.org, finleym etc.) except for the GC president. But Vice Presidents are sufficient anyhow, for part of their duties is to inform the GC president of email that is pertinent to him. Names of other VPs can be found at The Adventist Yearbook, GC entry.

NAD names with email addresses are at The Adventist Yearbook, NAD entry.

It would also be well to include the conference and union where Amazing Facts is located,

Northern California Conference,

Pacific Union, where there is an email link on the president's page.

And also, of course, Amazing Facts itself, where there is a "contact us" form where you can specify administration.

And also Jim Pederson, who is both president of NCC as well as chairman of the board of Amazing Facts, JPedersen@ncc.adventist.org .

Great idea. Let's all of us, denizens and lurkers, write to:

Local Conference:

Illinois Conference of Seventh-day Adventists
Kenneth Denslow, President
619 Plainfield Rd
Willowbrook, IL 60527-8437

Union (one level up):

Lake Union Conference of Seventh-day Adventists
Walter L. Wright, President
PO Box C
Berrien Springs, MI 49103-0904

Division (two levels up):

North American Division of Seventh-day Adventists
Don Schneider, President
12501 Old Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, MD 20904-6600

General Conference:

General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists
Jan Paulsen, President
12501 Old Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, Maryland 20904-6600

Elder Denslow is the local conference president; writing him is good if for no other reason than to encourage him to publicly remove himself from the board (and I don't care if his parents work for 3ABN). Danny outweighs him in power by many orders of magnitude, though, and one has to write at higher levels to encourage the church to distance themselves from him.

Here are a few more addresses:

Amazing Facts
Doug Batchelor, President
P.O. Box 1058
Roseville, CA 95678-8058

Weimar Institute
Don Christensen, President
PO Box 486
Weimar, CA 95736

ASI Ministries
12501 Old Columbia Pike,
Silver Spring, MD 20904

The following are ASI officers. I include all their names because as long as they affiliate themselves with 3ABN, they bring shame on themselves, their organization, and the church.

President - Debbie Young
Secretary/Treasurer - Ron Christman
General Vice President - Chester Clark III
Vice Presidents - Viorel Catarama, Chip Doss, Leasa Hodges, Doreen Schmidt, Barbara Taylor
NAD appointees - Juan Prestol, Don Schneider, Halvard Thomsen
Union ASI Secretary - Norm Clam
Conference ASI Secretary - Duane McKey
Union ASI Chapter Presidents - Lorayne Barton, Chester Clark Jr., Gayle Clark, Steve Dickman, Sharon Erickson, Elizabeth Gonsalves-Remington, Sandy Miller, Dan Ross
Members at large - Ellsworth McKee, Tom Zapara
Immediate past president - Denzil McNeilus
President, Missions Inc. - Harold Lance

ASI Missions Inc.
President - Harold Lance
NAD appointees - Juan Prestol, Don Schneider, Halvard Thomsen
Members - Terry Anderson, Ron Christman, Dan Houghton, Andre Jubert, MD, Ellsworth McKee, Denzil McNeilus, Garwin McNeilus, Jane Sines, Stan Smith, Debbie Young
This is a lot of stamps, but if we can make some noise, maybe people will realize that the temple needs to be cleansed.

By the way, these are all publicly available addresses I got from the Internet, in case anyone wonders.