Doug In Denial? Or Danny's Bluff?, Options

[Pickle]

June 2007 issue of 3ABN World. The cover story is all about the merger, and the cover says that the magazine is "Published Monthly by 3ABN/Amazing Facts."

I still haven't heard Doug come out and state how he feels about Danny covering up his brother's child molestation allegations, or Danny's divorcing Linda when he didn't know whether or not she had committed fornication. Anyone know where Doug stands on these questions?

Notice how the ASI president who also sits on the ASI Mission, Inc. board, Debbie Young, has an article in the magazine too. Does that suggest that the ASI Missions, Inc. board will indeed be the new constituency?

The way this issue is put together you'd think Doug and Debbie are 100% behind Danny. Is that reality or is this just an illusion created by Danny?

This post has been edited by Pickle: May 5 2007, 04:18 AM

[SoulEspresso]

I hate to call somebody's competency into question, but it's better than attacking their character.

Right now I prefer to believe that Doug and AF asked Danny about the allegations on the 'net, and were told they were all lies told by people trying to "destroy the ministry." And believed it.

[PeacefulBe]

I also am giving Doug the benefit of the doubt at the moment. However, Eve believed what that serpent told her when it would have been better for all if she had attempted to confirm whether or not what the serpent had told her was true before she put her trust in him.

[Noahswife]

I hate to call somebody's competency into question, but it's better than attacking their character.

Right now I prefer to believe that Doug and AF asked Danny about the allegations on the 'net, and were told they were all lies told by people trying to "destroy the ministry." And believed it.

SE

Character? Competency? Pleeaazzzzz.....

I think that anyone making donations to AF that is aware of the 3abn situation should be melting the wires to DB's phones. Is the AF "leader" also without a competent board that functions as a board would in the real world? Or is it also a board that is nothing more than a giant affirmation stamp for someone's dreams and aspirations? Can someone help me on this one?

nw
C"i"

[runner4him]

SE

Character? Competency? Pleeaazzzzz.....

I think that anyone making donations to AF that is aware of the 3abn situation should be melting the wires to DB's phones. Is the AF "leader" also without a competent board that functions as a board would in the real world? Or is it also a board that is nothing more than a giant affirmation stamp for someone's dreams and aspirations? Can someone help me on this one?

nw
C"i"

I agree with you, Noahswife! If even a Peon (talking about me) can read what is on the internet here and at save3abn then someone like DB who has a "competent board" (to quote you) and who knows other solid SDA friends/ministers/evangelists/officials of the church in high places should be able to ask his own questions while sifting through all the "stuff". It is not that difficult to come to an intelligent conclusion. I do not want to judge him or his motives but it does look too cozy for me. My donations stopped going to AF when I first heard of the merger with no pronouncement of cleaning house. We must not hide behind the cloak of apparent christianity and remain silent about real issues...that leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. Back to standing up for truth....and principles...and rights of victims...and the pure unadulterated Gospel. There is always a lesson in everything....pray that we might not be puffed up and forget our total need of Him for all things.

[Treniece]

There doesn't seem to be any clear facts with the Danny and Linda situation, I believe that is why most of Danny's supporters would rather focus on the good of his ministry.

[SoulEspresso]

There doesn't seem to be any clear facts with the Danny and Linda situation, I believe that is why most of Danny's supporters would rather focus on the good of his ministry.

Well, if there aren't any clear facts, why have donations dropped in the first quarter--in the seven figures? Seems like something's clear to someone!

Original documents don't lie.

A lot of Danny's supporters were in denial until they read save3abn.com. I believe if more of them were to head on over and read without prejudice, there would be a house-cleaning.

NW and R4H are both right--AF donors ought to hold off awhile, and Doug really should know better. But the truth is, it's not the easiest thing if you've been friends with someone awhile to believe such bad things about them. Of course he should be investigating, but he's as busy as any of us and relies on people to tell him what to believe on this. I'm not commending him for it, but it's probably how it is.

Remember that we've got no evidence of egregiously bad behavior on Doug's part--unless you count ambition.

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: May 5 2007, 03:00 PM

[mozart]

June 2007 issue of 3ABN World.

The way this issue is put together you'd think Doug and Debbie are 100% behind Danny. Is that reality or is this just an illusion created by Danny?

well since ASI totally spun the reason for their withdrawal from "discussions",.... it is probably both reality and DS's deliberate and conscious illusion.
it's beginning to look like the new 3abn and the new 3abn board is going to be a union between ASI, Amazing Facts & GC (in the sense that ken denslow was on the 3abn board). we were talking about this scenario last night and although it's good that "one" person is not in full control, it most likely will also mean that "the undiluted message" will disappear. this is where the "veil" is hung up and DS, etal's sins shall be hidden and "be as if they never were" and life goes on.
this is the time for deepest prayer and strong actions. time for us to do our writing with pen and paper and when we do that, we must make sure we have our information and our attitude correct lest our words come back void.
i propose a vigorous, honest and sincere writing campaign among all of us.
i also, propose that we need to vigorously support in any way we can those who's heads are on the chopping block for simply standing up and speaking out against wrongding in our ministries, whomever they are.
we must speak out in the defense of "speaking out". we must speak in the defense of having the freedom within our denomination to always be able to do that without being sued. this is not a time to speak in any deceitful way. if we want to be effective, we have to speak the truth and speak we must; not just here, but much more importantly, to the powers that be. i believe this is our small window of opportunity before all we've discussed here gets swept permanently under the "red persian rug". let's get busy.

I hate to call somebody's competency into question, but it's better than attacking their character.

Right now I prefer to believe that Doug and AF asked Danny about the allegations on the 'net, and were told they were all lies told by people trying to "destroy the ministry." And believed it.

unbelievably naive and foolish. but possible.

This post has been edited by mozart: May 5 2007, 03:08 PM

[Eirene]

I agree with you, Noahswife! If even a Peon (talking about me) can read what is on the internet here and at save3abn then someone like DB who has a "competent board" (to quote you) and who knows other solid SDA friends/ministers/evangelists/officials of the church in high places should be able to ask his own questions while sifting through all the "stuff". It is not that difficult to come to an intelligent conclusion. I do not want to judge him or his motives but it does look too cozy for me. My donations stopped going to AF when I first heard of the merger with no pronouncement of cleaning house. We must not hide behind the cloak of apparent christianity and remain silent about real issues...that leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. Back to standing up for truth....and principles...and rights of victims...and the pure unadulterated Gospel. There is always a lesson in everything....pray that we might not be puffed up and forget our total need of Him for all things.

I would like to ask you and many others on this forum some questions.
Do you know Danny or Linda personally?
Have you ever been to 3abn facilities?
Have you spent a lot of time with any of those talked about on this forum?

Well, 1. Doug has
2. Doug did and does
3. Doug has many times
4. Doug has
So the big question: Could it be remotely possible that Doug knows plenty that you people don't know and has made the decision of the merge accordingly.
To the lurkers here, this will make total sense.
To the rest of you, you will twist and turn it and end up with something ridiculous that makes no sense whatsoever.For instance, those of you that answered no to those questions, somehow, know more than Doug. But that's ok, I had my say.

[Clay]

I would like to ask you and many others on this forum some questions.
Do you know Danny or Linda personally?
Have you ever been to 3abn facilities?
Have you spent a lot of time with any of those talked about on this forum?

Well, 1. Doug has
2. Doug did and does
3. Doug has many times
4. Doug has
So the big question: Could it be remotely possible that Doug knows plenty that you people don't know and has made the decision of the merge accordingly.
To the lurkers here, this will make total sense.
To the rest of you, you will twist and turn it and end up with something ridiculous that makes no sense whatsoever.For instance, those of you that answered no to those questions, somehow, know more than Doug. But that's ok, I had my say.

you mean like you are twisting and turning and asking those who lurk to believe the ummm interesting explanations you have put forth? Had you read some of the posts you would know that indeed there are MANY here who have been to 3abn, worked for 3abn, spent time at 3abn... they have 1st hand testimony....

Yes you have had your say.... thank you for sharing your opinion....

[mozart]

SE

Character? Competency? Pleeaazzzzz.....

I think that anyone making donations to AF that is aware of the 3abn situation should be melting the wires to DB's phones. Is the AF "leader" also without a competent board that functions as a board would in the real world? Or is it also a board that is nothing more than a giant affirmation stamp for someone's dreams and aspirations? Can someone help me on this one?

nw
C"i"

"I suggest you be more careful for what you say or you will find yourself looking down your nose at a Judge." quote from lee to mozart

just to lighten things up a bit........now for seriousness. i don't think the AF board is a rubber stamp, but i also don't believe they have taken all these allegations against DS seriously. we all know what a spin doctor and what a manipulater some people can be. just like we ourselves learned we had been deceived, so shall others learn the hard way. all i can do is shake my head in sheer wonderment. seems getting the most powerful religious satellite network is much more important than taking certain folks, at that network, to task. taking the network and giving it a new image is the job at hand. business is business. it would be the same with any business merger or takeover, i'm thinking. the entity is what's important, not the individual. look at donald trump. moral? no. teaming with wealthy successes. yes. most of what we have here are moral issues and morality isn't tangible. any of that make sense or am i clueless?

My donations stopped going to AF when I first heard of the merger with no pronouncement of cleaning house. We must not hide behind the cloak of apparent christianity and remain silent about real issues...that leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. Back to standing up for truth....and principles...and rights of victims...and the pure unadulterated Gospel. There is always a lesson in everything....pray that we might not be puffed up and forget our total need of Him for all things.

100% aggreement from me.

This post has been edited by mozart: May 5 2007, 03:38 PM

[SoulEspresso]

we must speak out in the defense of "speaking out". we must speak in the defense of having the freedom within our denomination to always be able to do that without being sued. this is not a time to speak in any deceitful way. if we want to be effective, we have to speak the truth and speak we must; not just here, but much more importantly, to the powers that be. i believe this is our small window of opportunity before all we've discussed here gets swept permanently under the "red persian rug". let's get busy.

Great idea. Let's all of us, denizens and lurkers, write to:

Local Conference:

Illinois Conference of Seventh-day Adventists
Kenneth Denslow, President
619 Plainfield Rd
Willowbrook, IL 60527-8437

Union (one level up):

Lake Union Conference of Seventh-day Adventists
Walter L. Wright, President
PO Box C
Berrien Springs, MI 49103-0904

Division (two levels up):

North American Division of Seventh-day Adventists
Don Schneider, President
12501 Old Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, MD 20904-6600

General Conference:

General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists
Jan Paulsen, President
12501 Old Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, Maryland 20904-6600

Elder Denslow is the local conference president; writing him is good if for no other reason than to encourage him to publicly remove himself from the board (and I don't care if his parents work for 3ABN). Danny outweighs him in power by many orders of magnitude, though, and one has to write at higher levels to encourage the church to distance themselves from him.

Here are a few more addresses:

Amazing Facts
Doug Batchelor, President
P.O. Box 1058
Roseville, CA 95678-8058

Weimar Institute
Don Christensen, President
PO Box 486
Weimar, CA 95736

ASI Ministries
12501 Old Columbia Pike,
Silver Spring, MD 20904

The following are ASI officers. I include all their names because as long as they affiliate themselves with 3ABN, they bring shame on themselves, their organization, and the church.

President - Debbie Young
Secretary/Treasurer - Ron Christman
General Vice President - Chester Clark III
Vice Presidents - Viorel Catarama, Chip Doss, Leasa Hodges, Doreen Schmidt, Barbara Taylor
NAD appointees - Juan Prestol, Don Schneider, Halvard Thomsen
Union ASI Secretary - Norm Clam
Conference ASI Secretary - Duane McKey
Union ASI Chapter Presidents - Lorayne Barton, Chester Clark Jr., Gayle Clark, Steve Dickman, Sharon Erickson, Elizabeth Gonsalves-Remington, Sandy Miller, Dan Ross
Members at large - Ellsworth McKee, Tom Zapara
Immediate past president - Denzil McNeilus
President, Missions Inc. - Harold Lance

ASI Missions Inc.
President - Harold Lance
NAD appointees - Juan Prestol, Don Schneider, Halvard Thomsen
Members - Terry Anderson, Ron Christman, Dan Houghton, Andre Jubert, MD, Ellsworth McKee, Denzil McNeilus, Garwin McNeilus, Jane Sines, Stan Smith, Debbie Young


This is a lot of stamps, but if we can make some noise, maybe people will realize that the temple needs to be cleansed.

By the way, these are all publicly available addresses I got from the Internet, in case anyone wonders.

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: May 5 2007, 03:33 PM

[mozart]

--------I have a question for you Eirene--------
How many times have you heard a divorced spouse say, "I lived with them all those years, but I never knew them!!"?
Please Answer Your Own Questions.

I would like to ask you and many others on this forum some questions.
Do you know Danny or Linda personally?
Have you ever been to 3abn facilities?
Have you spent a lot of time with any of those talked about on this forum?

Well, 1. Doug has
2. Doug did and does
3. Doug has many times
4. Doug has
So the big question: Could it be remotely possible that Doug knows plenty that you people don't know and has made the decision of the merge accordingly.
To the lurkers here, this will make total sense.
To the rest of you, you will twist and turn it and end up with something ridiculous that makes no sense whatsoever.For instance, those of you that answered no to those questions, somehow, know more than Doug. But that's ok, I had my say.

This post has been edited by mozart: May 5 2007, 03:34 PM

[SoulEspresso]

I would like to ask you and many others on this forum some questions.
Do you know Danny or Linda personally?
Have you ever been to 3abn facilities?
Have you spent a lot of time with any of those talked about on this forum?

Well, 1. Doug has
2. Doug did and does
3. Doug has many times
4. Doug has
So the big question: Could it be remotely possible that Doug knows plenty that you people don't know and has made the decision of the merge accordingly.
To the lurkers here, this will make total sense.
To the rest of you, you will twist and turn it and end up with something ridiculous that makes no sense whatsoever.For instance, those of you that answered no to those questions, somehow, know more than Doug. But that's ok, I had my say.

You realize you're making Doug look as bad as Danny. If he's colluding somehow, he's not the man I thought he was.

Perhaps if he'd spent some time on save3abn.com he wouldn't have gone through. He's a busy guy he has to rely on what other people tell him unless he decides it's important to find out for himself. That's why letter writing is so important.

[mozart]

you are so awesome SE. i was going to ask for someone to post addresses just as you did here. thanks so much.
btw, i wrote the illinois conf. Attn: Ken Denslow just to ask if he was on the 3abn board. he.... so ungraciously, did not write me back.

Great idea. Let's all of us, denizens and lurkers, write to:

Local Conference:

Illinois Conference of Seventh-day Adventists
Kenneth Denslow, President
619 Plainfield Rd
Willowbrook, IL 60527-8437

Union (one level up):

Lake Union Conference of Seventh-day Adventists
Walter L. Wright, President
PO Box C
Berrien Springs, MI 49103-0904

Division (two levels up):

North American Division of Seventh-day Adventists
Don Schneider, President
12501 Old Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, MD 20904-6600

General Conference:

General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists
Jan Paulsen, President
12501 Old Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, Maryland 20904-6600

Elder Denslow is the local conference president; writing him is good if for no other reason than to encourage him to publicly remove himself from the board (and I don't care if his parents work for 3ABN). Danny outweighs him in power by many orders of magnitude, though, and one has to write at higher levels to encourage the church to distance themselves from him.

Here are a few more addresses:

Amazing Facts
Doug Batchelor, President
P.O. Box 1058
Roseville, CA 95678-8058

Weimar Institute
Don Christensen, President
PO Box 486
Weimar, CA 95736

ASI Ministries
12501 Old Columbia Pike,
Silver Spring, MD 20904

The following are ASI officers. I include all their names because as long as they affiliate themselves with 3ABN, they bring shame on themselves, their organization, and the church.

President - Debbie Young
Secretary/Treasurer - Ron Christman
General Vice President - Chester Clark III
Vice Presidents - Viorel Catarama, Chip Doss, Leasa Hodges, Doreen Schmidt, Barbara Taylor
NAD appointees - Juan Prestol, Don Schneider, Halvard Thomsen
Union ASI Secretary - Norm Clam
Conference ASI Secretary - Duane McKey
Union ASI Chapter Presidents - Lorayne Barton, Chester Clark Jr., Gayle Clark, Steve Dickman, Sharon Erickson, Elizabeth Gonsalves-Remington, Sandy Miller, Dan Ross
Members at large - Ellsworth McKee, Tom Zapara
Immediate past president - Denzil McNeilus
President, Missions Inc. - Harold Lance

ASI Missions Inc.
President - Harold Lance
NAD appointees - Juan Prestol, Don Schneider, Halvard Thomsen
Members - Terry Anderson, Ron Christman, Dan Houghton, Andre Jubert, MD, Ellsworth McKee, Denzil McNeilus, Garwin McNeilus, Jane Sines, Stan Smith, Debbie Young
This is a lot of stamps, but if we can make some noise, maybe people will realize that the temple needs to be cleansed.

By the way, these are all publicly available addresses I got from the Internet, in case anyone wonders.

This post has been edited by mozart: May 5 2007, 03:43 PM