General Conference Suspends 3abn's Status, Supportive Ministry Status suspended by GC announcement Options

[appletree]

Fran,

I talked to three pastors this week, all of whom said there is no validity or truth to your statements. They have never been told not to accept funds and then forward said funds on to an independent ministry.

You might want to check your facts with a few pastors, conference officials, union officers, or maybe even the GC. As far as what is contained in your post there is nothing there other than your "claims" that things are such . . . have you been given some sort of authority within the Adventist denomination to pass such edicts?

- FHB

No FHB she hasn't. There are some adventist churches that won't pass on donations to any ministry. Don't want to have to keep records etc.. Frans statement is false as 3abn gets in donations that the churches are "passing along" all the time.

[sonshineonme]

No FHB she hasn't. There are some adventist churches that won't pass on donations to any ministry. Don't want to have to keep records etc.. Frans statement is false as 3abn gets in donations that the churches are "passing along" all the time.

You just can't help this thing about speaking for people, can you?
"some" huh? hmmm....

I sort of like Fran's posts just fine, I think she does alright all by herself. I am looking forward to HER reply to FHB and Stan.

[Stan]

No FHB she hasn't. There are some adventist churches that won't pass on donations to any ministry. Don't want to have to keep records etc.. Frans statement is false as 3abn gets in donations that the churches are "passing along" all the time.

It is my understand the local Church can not write receipts for funds that go to other non-sda ministries, I am speaking about those not with in the corporate structure. If that is just for the Canadian Churches, then I will stand corrected..

Ever union/division has GC auditors, someone should call to clairify.

[appletree]

It is my understand the local Church can not write receipts for funds that go to other non-sda ministries, I am speaking about those not with in the corporate structure. If that is just for the Canadian Churches, then I will stand corrected..

Ever union/division has GC auditors, someone should call to clairify.

I appreciate your input Stan. Maybe here it differs from church to church. I just know that we get a lot of donations through the churches.

[Pickle]

I just know that we get a lot of donations through the churches.

Then how come 3ABN said, "3ABN is not owned, operated or funded by any church, denomination or organization"? Does it only get donations through churches that aren't churches?

[appletree]

Then how come 3ABN said, "3ABN is not owned, operated or funded by any church, denomination or organization"? Does it only get donations through churches that aren't churches?

Pickle let's hope you made this comment as a joke versus really didn't understand.

Our subject was people passing donations through a church to 3abn. How does that equate with 3abn being "funded" by churches?

Aren't you dizzy from spinning so much?

[Fran]

Just a couple of comments.

Generally the Church should not/cannot write receipts or accept donations to organizations that are not audited by the GC auditors, as we can not trace the funds. The would include The United Way, 3ABN, www.thatotherangelministries.org, www.blacksda.com etc

Sometimes new Treasurers will do that, until they get audited and informed.

AND YES Amazing Facts is a denomination ministry, and Churches can accept for them.

My Friend Fran

Am curious to what level academically you have in accounting, or if you have ever been through an audit of a organization that has 7 or 8 digits in transactions every year.. no offence.. just wondering.. I did 3.5 years out of the 5 year Canadian program, BUT nothing I did included Tax Accounting..

Stan the man:

Don't worry Stan, I have my sheep skin. However, I believe the documents are so plane that anyone can understand them.

I retired in 2000. That is when the Lord started me searching 3ABN. I was not bored!

These are questions that the judge will need to hear. I am sure Danny's lawyers have all of his questions. Are you Phishing for Danny?

Later - Fran

The document has already been posted that states churches are not to forward offerings to 3ABN! Go fish! You are correct about Amazing Facts.

[Pickle]

Pickle let's hope you made this comment as a joke versus really didn't understand.

Our subject was people passing donations through a church to 3abn. How does that equate with 3abn being "funded" by churches?

Aren't you dizzy from spinning so much?

And the checks of donations passed through churches that 3ABN received weren't checks drawn on the bank accounts of those churches? And churches are organizations that do not include the members who are passing the donations on?

By the way, read this this morning in family worship:

"Truth is of God; deception in all its myriad forms is of Satan, and whoever in any way departs from the straight line of truth is betraying himself into the power of the wicked one" (PK 252).

Now Gregory Scott Thompson, son of the 3ABN Board chairman, has informed us that the IRS investigator is out on maternity leave. Remember when Danny was introducing Jim Gilley as the new president on global TV, he reacted to the recent news of a former 3ABNer being contacted by the IRS by saying that the IRS doesn't investigate people behind their backs, and that people that think that the IRS is investigating him are enemies of the gospel, even if they are Christians.

So, does Danny think Gregory is an enemy of the gospel?

Or was Danny fibbing on the air? And if he was fibbing on the air, according to PK 252, was his attempted deception coming from God or Satan?

[Stan]

Stan the man:

Don't worry Stan, I have my sheep skin. However, I believe the documents are so plane that anyone can understand them.

I retired in 2000. That is when the Lord started me searching 3ABN. I was not bored!

These are questions that the judge will need to hear. I am sure Danny's lawyers have all of his questions. Are you Phishing for Danny?

Later - Fran

The document has already been posted that states churches are not to forward offerings to 3ABN! Go fish! You are correct about Amazing Facts.

Not phishing for anyone..

Reason I was asking about the accounting is because of your review of the auditors statement. I will make a couple of comments that I would on those statements on anyones audit.

Specifically the comment about

5...Why has 3ABN been written up every years since 2000 by auditors about a problem with Valuing assets?

In house accountants and auditors have a right to disagree, the audit is and audit, and it gives recommendations. I have had disagreements in the past with the audit opinions, and I believe the auditors were clearly wrong. Remember the words Auditors Opinions. They put their opinions in report for discussion of the board.

3...Why was over $14,000 of money that belonged to other ministries, NOT 3ABN'S, posted to 3ABN Income?

Remember the president of larger organization do not do all the coding and paperwork, and I doubt if most presidents even know most of what is going in in the day-to-day transactions.

When I took over one ABC as manager, I found a transaction for 117,000 or so, and that varied a bit every year, that was put into the wrong year for 6-7 years. I did not view that as criminal, just part of the learning process for the accountants.

I really think, and perhaps there are CPA or CA out there, and I think they would agree with me that you are overstating the problem, and I speak as if your comments were on any organization, not just the one you have addressed.

That is just my opinion.

[Stan]

I appreciate your input Stan. Maybe here it differs from church to church. I just know that we get a lot of donations through the churches.

I would think 3ABN would not want Churches to accept donations, or rather they would prefer people to donate direct so they can do follow up.

I give to sda organizations through local churches so I do not get on their mailing list.

[Stan]

Fran...

When you say that they are not using GAAP, what are you really saying? It would appear as if you are saying both the Treasurer and his/her team, as well as their CPA Auditors are not competent.

Or am I overstating that?

[Ian]

And the checks of donations passed through churches that 3ABN received weren't checks drawn on the bank accounts of those churches? And churches are organizations that do not include the members who are passing the donations on?

By the way, read this this morning in family worship:

"Truth is of God; deception in all its myriad forms is of Satan, and whoever in any way departs from the straight line of truth is betraying himself into the power of the wicked one" (PK 252).

Now Gregory Scott Thompson, son of the 3ABN Board chairman, has informed us that the IRS investigator is out on maternity leave. Remember when Danny was introducing Jim Gilley as the new president on global TV, he reacted to the recent news of a former 3ABNer being contacted by the IRS by saying that the IRS doesn't investigate people behind their backs, and that people that think that the IRS is investigating him are enemies of the gospel, even if they are Christians.

So, does Danny think Gregory is an enemy of the gospel?

Or was Danny fibbing on the air? And if he was fibbing on the air, according to PK 252, was his attempted deception coming from God or Satan?

Pickle you and Sister have already outed FHB, multiple times, no need to make it a mantra..

and you might consider that DS said that before 3ABN was informed of anything by the IRS..

This post has been edited by Ian: Mar 16 2008, 10:13 AM

[Shiny Penny]

Don't worry Stan, I have my sheep skin. However, I believe the documents are so plane that anyone can understand them.

Fran - please re-read my post from May 2007 - the 3abn statements that you continually refer to are so PLAIN that anyone can understand them, but it seems as if you are still having some difficulties with analyzing them.

3ABN 990 comments...

[Shiny Penny]

Fran...

When you say that they are not using GAAP, what are you really saying? It would appear as if you are saying both the Treasurer and his/her team, as well as their CPA Auditors are not competent.

Or am I overstating that?

I would bet that Fran really doesn't have a clue what she is saying about not using GAAP, but she throws around phrases and statements that she may think make her look like an authority on things accounting. Those who have had even a book-keeping class and take the time to read the reports, can easily see that Fran is not correct in her views.

Have the auditors ever given 3ABN an adverse opinion or anything even close? I bet the answer is NO.

[Pickle]

Pickle you and Sister have already outed FHB, multiple times, no need to make it a mantra..

and you might consider that DS said that before 3ABN was informed of anything by the IRS..

Cindy, I hate to put it this way, but you don't know what you are talking about.

Danny said what he said on the air AFTER Walt told him that a former 3ABNer had called him and told him that the IRS had contacted them. And that former 3ABNer passed on the agent's contact info to Walt, and Walt was going to call that IRS agent.

The same week Walt took that call, Danny said what he said on the air.

So does Danny think Gregory Scott Thomspon is an enemy of the gospel? My question has nothing to do with outing him.