Top Ten Amazing Facts About The Proposed Amazing Facts-3abn Merger, From: Spectrum and the Association of Adventist Forums Options

[Ozzie]

Thank you for the welcomes, but why are you warning me about the rules and about being banned? Posting with multiple identities is against the rules here. You didn't warn find fault with or even say anything to one of your own for breaking that rule.

Exactly what proof do you have of that Ian? I don't believe that the friends of BSDA need to assume multiple identities. Each posts on their individual merits.

And if I am allowed to share my personal opinions as you all have? Then allow me to say;

You do altogether too much assuming, and wrongly at that. That appears to be your Modus operandi when dealing with, all who disagree with you, and for reporting your grievances and criticisms of 3ABN also, so I shouldn't have been suprised at your reaction and responses here, but I was.

I am not who or what you think I am, and so I am afraid you are just going to be dissapointed here. I am not going to play your games, or feed your paranoia or inflated egos. After reading all the replies and comments here, I think I will most likely stick to reading for the most part as I did before.

So, you've been reading for twelve months, but just joined BSDA on 3 July? Do I have that correct?
Lexie

[princessdi]

Indeed, Welcome to BSDA, Ian. Now after reading the first part of your sentence, I really was ready to post a kinder, gentler presponse. to explain why the member shave responded as they have. However, as I kept reading to the sendon sentenc eof your first paragraph, I have changed my mind.

If you have reading for a year as you have said, then you also know the reception you would get with your entrance as it was. Also, I really believe that you have been at least "reading" for a year, because of your second sentence of the frist paragraph. So just be real and say what you want to say and get on with it. Simple. Everyone who has come here who is asking th ahrd questions of Danny and 3ABN, has come honestly from the beginnning. Too many who have come to defend Danny and 3ABN have come under too many guises(which, BTW, if you know if you had been reaidng, did not work......remember not Sabbath school).

Just for the record, I mentioned the second setence in the first paragraph of your post, because it does give you away.

Thank you for the welcomes, but why are you warning me about the rules and about being banned? Posting with multiple identities is against the rules here. You didn't warn find fault with or even say anything to one of your own for breaking that rule.

And if I am allowed to share my personal opinions as you all have? Then allow me to say;

You do altogether too much assuming, and wrongly at that. That appears to be your Modus operandi when dealing with, all who disagree with you, and for reporting your grievances and criticisms of 3ABN also, so I shouldn't have been suprised at your reaction and responses here, but I was.

I am not who or what you think I am, and so I am afraid you are just going to be dissapointed here. I am not going to play your games, or feed your paranoia or inflated egos. After reading all the replies and comments here, I think I will most likely stick to reading for the most part as I did before.

A word of advice:

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Ian
Assumption: The act of taking for granted, or supposing a thing without proof; supposition; a unwarrantable claim.
"We simply assume that the way we see things is the way they really are or the way they should be. And our attitudes and behaviors grow out of these assumptions." -- Stephen Covey (1932 - )

[sonshineonme]

Thank you for the welcomes, but why are you warning me about the rules and about being banned? Posting with multiple identities is against the rules here. You didn't warn find fault with or even say anything to one of your own for breaking that rule.

And if I am allowed to share my personal opinions as you all have? Then allow me to say;

You do altogether too much assuming, and wrongly at that. That appears to be your Modus operandi when dealing with, all who disagree with you, and for reporting your grievances and criticisms of 3ABN also, so I shouldn't have been suprised at your reaction and responses here, but I was.

I am not who or what you think I am, and so I am afraid you are just going to be dissapointed here. I am not going to play your games, or feed your paranoia or inflated egos. After reading all the replies and comments here, I think I will most likely stick to reading for the most part as I did before.

A word of advice:

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.



Ian


Assumption: The act of taking for granted, or supposing a thing without proof; supposition; a unwarrantable claim.


"We simply assume that the way we see things is the way they really are or the way they should be. And our attitudes and behaviors grow out of these assumptions." -- Stephen Covey (1932 - )

Interesting reply Ian considering you are the one who came in here with accusatory statements, and you expect those who are here to ignore you? Were you trying to provoke and then try to flip responses around to make some other passive point about us??

As you said,

"I think it would be even more interesting to find out how many there are actually posting here against 3ABN, and the Sheltons. It is my opinion you are a much smaller group then you appear to be. The valid sources, and proof for the claims and constant accusations here also seem to be in short supply.But-- Time, and the discovery process will most likely reveal whether that is the case, or not, eh?"

• YOU deemed us a smaller group then WE APPREAR TO BE? What does this mean Ian? Do you really know what you are saying here? Tell me, so I know. Does it matter to you how great the numbers? Do you ever count the READERS? Not just the posters???
• YOU think it's interesting to know HOW MANY ARE POSTING AGAINST 3ABN AND THE SHELTONS? Hmm, well, count away if you like, if that proves or disproves anything in particular, care to enlighten us what you mean here too? One other note, NO ONE intends to attack 3ABN, as a matter of fact, if you DID READ enough, you would be fully aware that people WANT TO SAVE IT - there are only a hand full that are willing to take it down, and they LEAD 3abn. It's not us. It would be nice to have that point of topic finally dealt with, but seems it keeps coming up over and over, and strangely and ironically, only by particular types of people.
• You are telling us that valid sources and proof for the claims...seem to be in short supply??? Are you kidding? What do you measure short and long with regard to "supply"? What will you say when it's ALL OUT?? Do you really want more? Some times you should be careful what you wish for.
• You bring up the "discovery"? How would you know ANYTHING about the items coming about in discovery? Enough to make a comment like that? There are PLENTY of other items in the public forums now that have been "discovered"...and might I add, it's like a huge can of worms out there...the more digging that has been done, the more is found...in fact, it seems to be ENDLESS? Scary? You should be scared. We all remain continuously shocked by things that are "discovered", and yet by now, we really aren't anymore. Why is that?

As I said, you can take the facts or leave them. It is your choice. You are entitled to any opinion you desire. BUT, do not take the responses that you provoked and flip back at us through using what I would call pias statements and scripture....what you might not get is that we have seen all this type of, um, thinking? before...so, forgive us. If we are wrong in our instincts or wonderings because of YOUR words, I guess in the end it doesn't really matter, does it? Truth is the ONLY thing that matters, and one way or another, truth will reign. I am sure some will hate it, what does that say about those that say they live their lives "seeking truth above all else" and yet are willing to deny it when it's in front of their eyes?? Maybe you should read our replies to you once more...hey, and don't be do defensive. What's that about? No worries Ian. =)

This post has been edited by sonshineonme: Jul 15 2007, 04:59 PM

[PeacefulBe]

Thank you for the welcomes, but why are you warning me about the rules and about being banned? Posting with multiple identities is against the rules here. You didn't warn find fault with or even say anything to one of your own for breaking that rule.

Ian,
My welcome was genuine and the warning came from the tone of your very first post, for you made some pretty large accusatory assumptions yourself in that very one!

After reading all here for over a year now, I think it would be even more
interesting to find out how many there are actually posting here against 3ABN, and
the Sheltons. It is my opinion you are a much smaller group then you appear
to be. The valid sources, and proof for the claims and constant accusations here also seem to be in short supply.But-- Time, and the discovery process will most likely reveal whether that is the case, or not, eh?

I never accused you of posting with multiple identities, BTW. Just wanted to give you a heads up about the rules because it would be nice to have someone who supports "the other side" actually be interested in sticking around long enough to have constructive dialogue about the various points rather than simply coming in here with a flameblower until Calvin and his admins run out of patience.

And if I am allowed to share my personal opinions as you all have? Then allow me to say;

You do altogether too much assuming, and wrongly at that. That appears to be your Modus operandi when dealing with, all who disagree with you, and for reporting your grievances and criticisms of 3ABN also, so I shouldn't have been suprised at your reaction and responses here, but I was.

I am not who or what you think I am, and so I am afraid you are just going to be dissapointed here. I am not going to play your games, or feed your paranoia or inflated egos. After reading all the replies and comments here, I think I will most likely stick to reading for the most part as I did before.

Once again, you started off in an accusatory, assumptive manner with your own first post so I find it interesting that you were surprised by the responses. You may run into members who want to play games, who have inflated egos and paranoia, but they are in short supply and usually don't last long here. If you have been reading for more than a year you certainly must be familiar with the likes of Bystander, wwjd, Joe Smith, eye witness, Eirene and the list goes on, who never were interested in trying to prove things true on false, only to spew their vitriolic messages.

If you are interested in dialogue, in putting forth your positions and the reasons behind them, you will find a willing audience and many who will be pleased to engage in such discussions in appropriate Christian manners. The choice is yours.

A word of advice:

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Ian
Assumption: The act of taking for granted, or supposing a thing without proof; supposition; a unwarrantable claim.
"We simply assume that the way we see things is the way they really are or the way they should be. And our attitudes and behaviors grow out of these assumptions." -- Stephen Covey (1932 - )

Beautiful Bible texts, Ian. Truly words to remember as we come together as part of the Body of Christ.

Please review your initial post to us after reading your stated definition of Assumption as well as Stephen Covey's wise statement. I think the application should be fairly obvious.

PB

[Rosyroi]

Ian, If my post sounded rude it was not meant to. Just don't want you to come in with an "attitude", get mad and make statements that would get you banned by the admin. I am sincerly wanting you to stick around.

We are only requesting that you to come in sit a spell and visit with us and exchange dialogue that would be helpful on both sides.

So how about a and a so we can move on to that good dialogue we are waiting for.


Rosyroi

[mikell]

"Posting with multiple identities is against the rules here..."

Steffan, is that you?

[Rosyroi]

Steffan, is that you?

Now look at who is being funny!!!

Rosyroi

[mikell]

Now look at who is being funny!!!

Rosyroi

Awww thanks,

[SoulEspresso]

Steffan, is that you?

Well, I wasn't going to say it ... but either way, since steffan got banned, I wonder if Ian wouldn't mind taking the time to respond to something I posted earlier:

Of course, the best thing for 3ABN at every level (and our church) would be for Danny to resign, along with his board, and take a sabbatical. The lawsuit alone has done such horrible things to their reputation, considering 3ABN's track record of high regard for Scripture and the counsel of EGW.

* 3ABN is bleeding money, is it not?
* If they are to be an effective transmitter of the gospel, shouldn't they cast aside everything that hinders?
* Isn't the message of Jesus more important than careers or leadership positions?
* If there has been wrongdoing, wouldn't it be best to come clean?
* Even if some or most of the allegations are based on misunderstandings, wouldn't it be better to step down rather than risk the continuing damage to the cause of Jesus?

Please take this in the tone it's offered--we want to see everybody connected with these problems in the kingdom, and we want to see as many people in the kingdom as possible no matter how the gospel is transmitted to them. If you see anyone in authority at 3ABN, I hope you'll share these concerns. We want the ministry to succeed, but we don't know how that can happen without a new leader, new board, and many new hosts.

What do you think, Ian? (By the way, this is offered in the same spirit as the first time I put it up.)

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Jul 16 2007, 05:14 PM

[PeacefulBe]

This just arrived in my Inbox. It speaks directly to #9 on the list from the Spectrum article.

ADVENTIST NEWS Round up
Schneider/Paulsen Favor Continuation of Amazing Facts/3ABN Merger Talks
By Edwin A. Schwisow, AToday.com (19 July 2007)

Leaders of the North American Division and General Conference favor continuing exploration of a proposed merger by Three Angels Broadcasting Network (3ABN) of West Frankfort, Ill., and Amazing Facts of Sacramento, Calif., according to Don Schneider, president of the North American Division in Silver Spring, Md.

In an hour-long interview with Adventist Today magazine, conducted yesterday (July 18), Schneider disclaimed any day-to-day involvement in the merger discussions themselves, but acknowledged that he and Jan Paulsen, General Conference president, jointly signed “a positive letter” that responded to questions directed to them by Doug Batchelor, president of Amazing Facts, and Adventist lay persons involved in the merger discussions. The letter, dated May 16, 2007, has fueled speculation that its content puts a damper on prospects for the merger.

Schneider acknowledged that sending jointly signed letters is unusual for the two highest-ranking Adventist executives in North America, but that in so doing they believed they could demonstrate their complete agreement on matters pertaining to the merger. Schneider says that a copy of the May 16 letter was not addressed directly to Danny Shelton, president of Three Angels Broadcasting Network.

Amazing Facts is a financially independent evangelistic and educational ministry of the Seventh-day Adventist Church whose employees carry licenses and credentials issued by the denomination and agree to abide by the working policy and other guidelines of the church. Three-ABN is also a financially independent organization and prepares Christian television programming for broadcast worldwide via satellite. Its programming promotes Adventist doctrinal teachings and lifestyle, but 3ABN itself and its assets are neither owned nor operated by the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and its regular workforce does not carry credentials or licenses issued by Adventist Church entities. While many on the payroll are Adventist church members, 3ABN also employs members of other faiths.

Neither 3ABN nor Amazing Facts receives financial support directly from the church, and sources close to 3ABN report that cash flow problems there have been cause for recent concern. Both are non-profit organizations, and their respective leaders have no legal claim to company assets themselves.


Batchelor Denies that Merger With 3ABN Called Off
By Edwin A. Schwisow, AToday.com (13 July 2007)

Doug Batchelor today denied rumors that the merger talks that began in April between Amazing Facts, an independent ministry supportive of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and Three Angel’s Broadcasting Network (3ABN), a self-supporting ministry with similar status, have been called off.

“It is not done,” he said of the merger, “but it is definitely not dead . I spoke with [3ABN president] Danny Shelton last week about it.”

Employees of both organizations have been quoted as affirming informally that the merger talks have ended. “I have heard of the rumors, though I have not heard the rumors themselves,” Batchelor said. “It may be that our extensive travels in recent weeks have made it appear this way. I just got back from Alaska, myself, and others involved have been traveling too.” These travels have slowed the process, he said, but plans for a merger remain alive.

Batchelor says that he favors releasing a progress report about the merger process to help squelch rumors and speculation now apparently enjoying some credibility among staff members of both organizations.

[PeacefulBe]

I would applaud Doug's saying "that he favors releasing a progress report about the merger process to help squelch rumors and speculation now apparently enjoying some credibility among staff members of both organizations." and hope he follows through with doing so.

We've enjoyed much input from Amazing Facts Chairman, Jim Pedersen in the past regarding the merger progress. The more truth that can be put out there the better for all, IMO!!!

PB

[Artiste]

This just arrived in my Inbox. It speaks directly to #9 on the list from the Spectrum article.

ADVENTIST NEWS Round up
Schneider/Paulsen Favor Continuation of Amazing Facts/3ABN Merger Talks

Neither 3ABN nor Amazing Facts receives financial support directly from the church, and sources close to 3ABN report that cash flow problems there have been cause for recent concern. Both are non-profit organizations, and their respective leaders have no legal claim to company assets themselves.

Batchelor Denies that Merger With 3ABN Called Off
By Edwin A. Schwisow, AToday.com (13 July 2007)

Doug Batchelor today denied rumors that the merger talks that began in April between Amazing Facts, an independent ministry supportive of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and Three Angel’s Broadcasting Network (3ABN), a self-supporting ministry with similar status, have been called off.

Does it appear that the "the two highest-ranking Adventist executives in North America" along with Doug Batchelor and Danny Shelton are: 1) thinking reasonably, or 2) in total denial?


****************************************************

This post has been edited by Artiste: Jul 19 2007, 07:36 PM

[Artiste]

ADVENTIST NEWS Round up
Schneider/Paulsen Favor Continuation of Amazing Facts/3ABN Merger Talks
By Edwin A. Schwisow, AToday.com (19 July 2007)

Schneider acknowledged that sending jointly signed letters is unusual for the two highest-ranking Adventist executives in North America, but that in so doing they believed they could demonstrate their complete agreement on matters pertaining to the merger.

****************************************

Amazing!

*****************************************

This post has been edited by Artiste: Jul 19 2007, 07:56 PM

[Artiste]

Batchelor Denies that Merger With 3ABN Called Off
By Edwin A. Schwisow, AToday.com (13 July 2007)

“It is not done,” he [Doug Batchelor] said of the merger, “but it is definitely not dead. I spoke with [3ABN president] Danny Shelton last week about it.”

So...Doug B. and Danny S. still working well together...


**************************************************

[mikell]

So...Doug B. and Danny S. still working well together...
**************************************************

if the deal is on no $ support for af, at least from me. (Ha, not really a big deal for I just only gave a few bucks at a time anyhow, ).