The Lawsuit Continues., This is where we are, and what is happening. Options

[PeacefulBe]

Collywobbles? Had to look that one up. Learned a new word. Thanks.

Just learned it myself last week and it is a far too wonderful word to let slip away. Now, perhaps we could collaborate to get the Twelve Days of Christmas sung in the proper original wording:

"Four colly birds...."

A related quote that I find so colorfully amusing that I hope to incorporate in my conversational portfolio to replace the old standard "You under the weather today?" comes from Cuthbert Bede's The Adventures of Mister Verdant Green, 1853:

"A touch of the mulligrubs in your collywobbles?"

[Richard Sherwin]

By some dictionaries mulligrubs and collywobbles can, but not not always, mean the same thing. In any case collywobbles is more fun to say.

Just learned it myself last week and it is a far too wonderful word to let slip away. Now, perhaps we could collaborate to get the Twelve Days of Christmas sung in the proper original wording:

"Four colly birds...."

A related quote that I find so colorfully amusing that I hope to incorporate in my conversational portfolio to replace the old standard "You under the weather today?" comes from Cuthbert Bede's The Adventures of Mister Verdant Green, 1853:

"A touch of the mulligrubs in your collywobbles?"

[Ian]

"A touch of the mulligrubs in your collywobbles?"

E. Cobham Brewer 1810–1897. Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898. says

"Usually accompanied with sundry noises. These noises are called the “borbarigmus” ... "




The new (old) word I just discovered is mugwump.

[Richard Sherwin]

OK I admit to being a mugwump, (that might change as the election gets closer) though it does at times cause mulligrubs and pollywobbles and gives me borbarigmus.

[Ian]

OK I admit to being a mugwump, (that might change as the election gets closer) though it does at times cause mulligrubs and pollywobbles and gives me borbarigmus.

Me too. Mugwumpery (yes that is a noun) seems like a wise choice these days.

[PeacefulBe]

Me too. Mugwumpery (yes that is a noun) seems like a wise choice these days.

Hmmmmm, PeacefulMugwump aka The Rebel Crone..... Has a nice ring.

(as in - a person who pursues independent thought or action)

[Brenda]

Just learned it myself last week and it is a far too wonderful word to let slip away. Now, perhaps we could collaborate to get the Twelve Days of Christmas sung in the proper original wording:

"Four colly birds...."

A related quote that I find so colorfully amusing that I hope to incorporate in my conversational portfolio to replace the old standard "You under the weather today?" comes from Cuthbert Bede's The Adventures of Mister Verdant Green, 1853:

"A touch of the mulligrubs in your collywobbles?"

As children we were often told that we would get collywobbles in the parallelogram if we ate food such as green plums. Thank you for letting me know that collywobbles are real

[Ian]

For those interested in developing an understanding of the bankruptcy case provided here are some of the original documents establishing the case.

[attachment=1037:GJBankdoc5081407.pdf]

[attachment=1038:GJBankdoc1081407.pdf]

The rather interesting conversation I quote below took place on AT in reference to the first document posted above.
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=233949

(I added the blue font below to highlight the part with relevance to this topic)


Has Gailon lied and (or) committed perjury in his Bankruptcy case???

Okay, I notice that a couple other members have asked you for clarification on the meaning of your statement about Linda not supporting the effort for justice. Instead of a straight and transparent answer, which I thought was what we were striving for here, you and Johann are, instead, playing word games. Can we step aside from those for just a moment Gailon? Please?

I know you are under enormous pressure presently. You've got all that you are doing to meet the physical and financial demands of the law suit, you've got your bankruptcy case, and, per your bankruptcy documents you are legally separated from your wife of many years. Those are all tremendous stressors. Now you are making it sound like you are being let down by Linda, that she is fighting against your efforts towards justice. Is this the case? Is this the message you are meaning to shout to the watching world? Nobody is trying to speculate, Gailon. At least I don't believe so from the questions that I have seen posted. It appears to me that there are some, probably many, who would simply would appreciate clarificaton for your huge statement about Linda so speculation can be nipped in the bud.

Anyone who knows me, and you certainly know me well enough, knows that I am relatively immune to "stressors"...however, I was quite bemused by your declaration of my seperation from my wife
...but I got the biggest kick out of the many calls of "tongue in cheek" condolences!!! Unfortunately, My wife was not as amused and requested your contact information. I will spare you the indignity!!!

Yes, I have gotten to know you quite well over the last 1.5 years. I have clearly seen how you have treated those who you feel are questioning your actions in this investigation. It is why I have chosen to have little further communication with you. I have made exceptions recently and your statement against Linda Shelton drew another out of me. I did attempt to find an answer behind the scenes but was less than successful.

I have bolded and highlighted in red the preface to my statement about your legal separation from your wife. It was not an assumption or an extrapolation. I read it in black and white in court documents over a month ago.

You and others can find the document in question, GJBankdoc5081407.pdf(40.08k) in fallible humanbeing's post of January 22, 2008.

"Part II. CALCULATION OF MONTHLY INCOME.... " has the box by b checked which states:

b. Married, not filing jointly with declaration of separate households. By checking this box, debtor declares under penalty of perjury: "My spouse and I are legally separated under applicable non-bankruptcy law or my spouse and I are living apart other than for the purpost of evading the requirements of (symbol) 707(B)(2)(A) of the Bankruptcy Code." Complete only column A ("Debtor's Income") for Lines 3-11.

As to your query, why would you require a response from me? You have connections on both sides of the isle and could, and most probably have, most certainly found an answer to your inquiry.
As for myself, I have already gotten the response I was looking for...and if I had wanted to simply "give" you an answer, would I not have done so? THerefore, you are left to your own inquiry and discovery!!!

Tell us the conclusion to your query and we can all be enlightened. I already am bemused by your extrapolations...remember, we are at war...could it have been motivated by our frequent need of good intelligence???!!!

By the way, Grandma Nettie, if you go to Pacer for the Minnesotta case you will find exhibited the rest of the Miller documents that you have taken such exception to in the past. That and the other 31 exhibits are just a taste of what will be presented at trial, and why Miller is such an important "third party" to that process. Compare those letters to the letter that PB got from Miller that so perfectly defined him as an "adversarial witness". Then give me your take on his ethics and his integrity. Would you trust him with your religious freedoms? I grant you a sincere and honest Thank-you for your great service to us and to the Seventh-day Adventist Church... Keep up the great work!!!
https://ecf.mnd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/DktRpt

Gailon Arthur Joy

I queried you about the statement against Linda's lack of support because you are the one who made it. I do not require an answer but I hoped for one so I could understand the reasoning behind your statement about Linda's lack of support of the cause. How would any of my "contacts on both sides of the aisle"......... know what was in your mind that was the motivation for your statement. The person I approached, one firmly on your side of the aisle, urged me to ask you, so I did.

As for the rest of your statement, if you are comfortable demonstrating to all readers how you are gleefully willing to use and manipulate people to reach your goals that is fine by me. I don't feel used because I wasn't. Had you asked me directly to contact Nick Miller to ask his permission to post his email before it met all of the conditions for posting, I would have been happy to do so. If you needed to use a form of trickery to ascertain that he was an adversarial witness, I'm happy that I could oblige because it also made it a bit more clear to me who you are and what you are willing to do in your pursuit of information. I guess that makes it a win-win situation.

If Mrs. Joy still wishes to contact me, please feel free to allow her to do so. I will be happy to read the document to her over the phone so she can understand why I made the statement I did.

This post has been edited by Ian: Feb 26 2008, 02:22 PM

[Shiny Penny]

Ian, thank you for posting this here. I haven't been reading over at AT, but I did take a peek today. How will Joy get himself out of stating that he and his wife are separated on those legal documents?
--------------------

And if you are trying to defend/protect Linda, in this one matter you are doing her a disservice, IMHO.

I already told you that is not what I am trying to do.

--------------------
And what was that about Linda? Maybe Pickle was telling a hard truth when he said he's not defending/protecting/supporting Linda.

[Ozzie]

(I added the blue font below to highlight the part with relevance to this topic)
Has Gailon lied and (or) committed perjury in his Bankruptcy case???

I have bolded and highlighted in red the preface to my statement about your legal separation from your wife. It was not an assumption or an extrapolation. I read it in black and white in court documents over a month ago.

You and others can find the document in question, GJBankdoc5081407.pdf(40.08k) in fallible humanbeing's post of January 22, 2008.

"Part II. CALCULATION OF MONTHLY INCOME.... " has the box by b checked which states:

b. Married, not filing jointly with declaration of separate households. By checking this box, debtor declares under penalty of perjury: "My spouse and I are legally separated under applicable non-bankruptcy law or my spouse and I are living apart other than for the purpost of evading the requirements of (symbol) 707((2)(A) of the Bankruptcy Code." Complete only column A ("Debtor's Income") for Lines 3-11.

Ian, the cat picture really suits you.

Your suggestion that Gailon committed perjury gave me a good laugh. I wonder what 'spin' you would put on my situation? My husband and I are 'legally separated' (Yes. For legal purposes), yet he would get quite a laugh out of it if anyone tried to 'spin' that as you have regarding Gailon Joy and his wife.

Obviously, the intention is to make 'something' out of what does not exist but then, than has been your line all along hasn't it?

[Shiny Penny]

The rather interesting conversation I quote below took place on AT in reference to the first document posted above.
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=233949

(I added the blue font below to highlight the part with relevance to this topic)
Has Gailon lied and (or) committed perjury in his Bankruptcy case???

He said that he made an honest (yet very consistent) mistake.

Has he made the corrections and resubmitted the corrected documents to the court?

[Ian]

Re: posting IMO, or IMHO

Right, Lawrence. Obviously someone hasn't read United States v. Miller.

You guys are such comedians.

And I thought I was just over emphasizing that I am posting for myself, and by myself, and what I was posting was my own personal opinion...

If you'd take the time to read it, you'd find that you are wrong.

oOoO kay, Bob...
As if I don't know why I post what I do, but you do?



BTW: Did you notice you never explained why that case was relevant here, or even gave a link to US vs Miller, so either myself or any one else could read it?


edit added "you never explained why that case was relevant here, or" for clarification purposes, as post hasn't been answered.

This post has been edited by Ian: Mar 4 2008, 07:25 AM

[Ian]

He said that he made an honest (yet very consistent) mistake.

Yeah.... that's what I got and understood from the discussion with Gailon Joy posted there also.

(In case others wonder what we are talking about, the relevant discussion starts about here, and runs to the end of the thread:
http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index.php?topic=12.60 )

Has he made the corrections and resubmitted the corrected documents to the court?

No. Not so far anyway. From the discussion referred to (in the link above,) he does not seem to me to be either too concerned about it, or to think it important to the court, or his case.

I just checked on Pacer, and the only update in his bankruptcy case since he was found in contempt of court and had the $1000.00 sanction issued against him,

(other then his motion to reconsider, which he lost, except for being allowed an extended period to pay the sanction)

is a motion filed on 02/15/08 by creditor Three Angels broadcasting network, Inc asking the court to allow them to conduct a "2004 Examination of Gailon Arthur Joy"

 BankDoc69021508.pdf ( 36.14K ) Number of downloads: 5




Today 03/03/08 their "Motion for Examination" was granted, and that order was filed, entered and signed by the Judge. According to the court docket, he simply wrote on 3ABNs motion: "ALLOWED. NO OBJECTIONS FILED." (caps his)

 BankDoc70030308.pdf ( 36.2K ) Number of downloads: 3


No date is set yet, but the examination and results should prove interesting....



-- Ian

[Ian]

Ian, thank you for posting this here. I haven't been reading over at AT, but I did take a peek today. How will Joy get himself out of stating that he and his wife are separated on those legal documents?

Although he first claimed to be bemused by the posted reference to the claim that they were separated, it doesn't seem he thinks he needs to correct that impression as far as the court goes...

Again for those who have no idea about what we are referring to, Joy filed this with the court:

"debtor declares under penalty of perjury: "My spouse and I are legally separated under applicable non-bankruptcy law or my spouse and I are living apart other than for the purpost of evading the requirements of (symbol) 707( (2)(A) of the Bankruptcy Code."

And what was that about Linda? Maybe Pickle was telling a hard truth when he said he's not defending/protecting/supporting Linda.

According to Gailon in the same referenced thread above, and in answer to multiple questions asking him what he meant, by posting the following:
"Someone just has to take that very first step...and you certainly know what that is all about, don't you, Johann...Linda has much to thank you for or we would not be where we are today without your efforts...too bad Linda doesn't recognize that and do us the justice of supporting the effort!!! "

After what appeared to be alot of ad hominems, and runaround, Joy finally posted this answer:


"As to the The Linda Mystery, it is simple enough...she had been asked to do some research and get the information back to us and it was not forth-coming, not to mention she seemed to be non-responsive to communication efforts. Following my post, I did speak with her and discovered she had completed the research and had given the package to another to deliver..."

My take and understanding:
So much for her saying nothing and being uninvolved as keeps being claimed by those among the Ds or 3ABN critics who are one-sided and close minded...

This seems further supported by another poster writing to Sunshineonme, and GJ's subsequent open apology:

"Yes, I approached you... both by email and IM to try to privately get the information on why both Bob and Gailon seemed to be posting negative statements against Linda all of the sudden. Why would I approach you? Because I care deeply about Linda's welfare and it appeared there was a level of acrimony developing against her. Because you are in constant contact with both Linda and Gailon and in the past have been completely willing to provide clarification when needed."





edited to add answer to first question...

This post has been edited by Ian: Mar 3 2008, 05:31 PM

[appletree]

Although he first claimed to be bemused by the posted reference to the claim that they were separated, it doesn't seem he thinks he needs to correct that impression as far as the court goes...

Again for those who have no idea about what we are referring to, Joy filed this with the court:

"debtor declares under penalty of perjury: "My spouse and I are legally separated under applicable non-bankruptcy law or my spouse and I are living apart other than for the purpost of evading the requirements of (symbol) 707( (2)(A) of the Bankruptcy Code."


According to Gailon in the same referenced thread above, and in answer to multiple questions asking him what he meant, by posting the following:
"Someone just has to take that very first step...and you certainly know what that is all about, don't you, Johann...Linda has much to thank you for or we would not be where we are today without your efforts...too bad Linda doesn't recognize that and do us the justice of supporting the effort!!! "

After what appeared to be alot of ad hominems, and runaround, Joy finally posted this answer:
"As to the The Linda Mystery, it is simple enough...she had been asked to do some research and get the information back to us and it was not forth-coming, not to mention she seemed to be non-responsive to communication efforts. Following my post, I did speak with her and discovered she had completed the research and had given the package to another to deliver..."

My take and understanding:
So much for her saying nothing and being uninvolved as keeps being claimed by those among the Ds or 3ABN critics who are one-sided and close minded...

This seems further supported by another poster writing to Sunshineonme, and GJ's subsequent open apology:

"Yes, I approached you... both by email and IM to try to privately get the information on why both Bob and Gailon seemed to be posting negative statements against Linda all of the sudden. Why would I approach you? Because I care deeply about Linda's welfare and it appeared there was a level of acrimony developing against her. Because you are in constant contact with both Linda and Gailon and in the past have been completely willing to provide clarification when needed."


edited to add answer to first question...

Ian, as usual you always post links to back up what you are saying and it is much appreciated.
As for Joy seeming "bemused" what else is new? No matter what happens in court or what he get's caught in, it's all part of his big plan....(at least in his mind). Some points to ponder:

The Bible says that a man who does not provide for his family is worse than an infidel! Anyone can make a business mistake, but one has to recover from it! IMO Joy shows no sign of that. He says his wife had no income in 2007. If he is bankrupt and his wife has no income who is paying the bills? According to his filings in court it can't be him or his wife. Is he getting donations from someone that he is not reporting? Any gifts will have to be listed on his income tax it would seem.
Is Joy is so consumed with trying to outsmart and destroy Danny and 3ABN that he has forgotten the basic Bible principal of being a father and a husband. #1. loving God and #2 obeying God by taking care of his family first?
For quite some time he has concentrated his life on his campaign to destroy 3abn. He has stated several times he has no job, and no income. It looks like his only "job" is trying to convince people how smart he is, Yet, IMO, if he had a brain the size of a freight train but does not use it to provide for his family, What good is it? Doesn't he get it?

He claims he is a reporter. He isn't. He claimed he was a financial counselor only to have his Financial Counseling business go belly up and end up in bankruptcy court.

He says in court documents that he and his wife are seperated, then laughs at the people who believe it.

For all of his arrogance and bravado what has he accomplished?

Joy demanded that Danny be fired from 3ABN. Has that happened? NO! With God's blessing Danny is still an important part of 3ABN and always will be! Joy wanted Danny out of work, but he is the one not working.

He has claimed Danny is not a good administrator but it is he (Joy) that is claiming bankruptcy.

He has claimed that Danny is a liar. Yet documents show, that he has been less than truthful with the courts. He and Pickle have claimed they don't get information from Linda, yet the above link exposes a conversation where he is "claiming" to get research from her.
His court documents say that he is seperated, yet, on AT he says he is not.

The bible says be careful that when you roll a stone to remember that the stone may roll back over you. Could this be what has happened to GAJ?

Time and time again the stone has rolled back over Joy but he still has not gotten the picture!

He went to the GC and N. Amercian leaders to defame Danny and 3abn to the church! Did he get this done? No, in fact after all the "junk" has landed and been sorted Danny and 3abn are still in contact and being supported by leaders like Don Scheider, NAD President. Most recently even a NAD Union President has joined the 3ABN board! Jim Gilley the former #2 man in the NAD has now joined 3ABN in a full time position as President!

Are the leaders still listening to Joy as they did in the beginning? NO! Why? The dust has settled and I am told that Joy is seen as an unscrupulous man that is out to destroy one of God's greatest asset's to this church, 3ABN! In the minds of many leaders Joy's mask has been uncovered!

Joy demanded that Walt T. be thrown out as chairman of the board! Did he get that done? NO! Walt is still chairman. The irony of this is the fact that probably had Gailon A. Joy not been involved, Walt would likely have retired from his position as chairman to let someone younger take over. But the board has encouraged Walt to stay chairman as they need such an experienced Godly man during this time of attack from the enemy!

Gailon demanded that the 3ABN board be disbanded and that he be allowed to come and talk to the board and have the 3ABN financial records be shown to him!
Has GAJ at least gotten this accomplished? No! Quite to the contrary because of his actions of defamation and slander now Joy has had to turn HIS computer and all his info over to 3ABN attorney's. Not to mention his financial woes being made public because of his bankruptcy claim.

Surely his few supporters must be wondering what's wrong with this picture! If they are not familiar with what the bible says about judging and accusing others lest the judgement fall back on you then maybe they are familiar with the old adage of "People who live in glass houses should not throw stones!"