The Lawsuit Continues., This is where we are, and what is happening. Options

[Johann]

I do not agree that an evil spirit started "this whole thing". Our enemy cannot make us do anything that we ourselves do not choose to think, say or do. "The devil made me do it" is a cop out. We each have a responsibility to learn to control ourselves. We can only achieve self control if we are totally asking and relying upon our Lord Jesus Christ to teach and guide us; to live his life in us, for us and through us. We cannot do it on our own. But some still do things on their own and maybe feel justified because they themselves have made mistakes or wrong choices based upon things they have heard, hurt feelings or having suffered the consequences of their own choices. From what I have read on the forums it is mainly those who have a personal grievance or have heard things from others with a personal grievance that have put out the gossip and misinformation and with no factual proof of anything they say or do. I do not see this kind of behavior as from the Lord. We shall know His by their fruits. It doesn't matter the reasons for what they do or have done in the past. What matters is setting things right today; going to the Lord and finally putting ourselves completely in His hands.

Dona

Shotly after this occured in 2004 I called Dr. Walt Thompson and asked him how they could be following the initiation of this evil spirit. He assured me that an evil spirit could be a blessing to 3ABN! Do you blame me then for questioning if they were on the right track?

I agree that "our enemy cannot make us do anything that we ourselves do not choose to think, say or do." This makes the responsibility greater when we do let the enemy guide us. This is why I am often asking Jesus Christ to guide me, also in this matter. At one point I even asked Dr. Walt Thompson if he thought I really should stop supporting Linda Shelton, and his reply was then, that he did not think I should stop supporting her. To me it was a signal that he knows I am honest, but that his loyalty prevents him from taking a different stand. My question is, will such loyalty to a person be counted in mine or his favor in the final judgment?

Donna, there never was a personal grievance on my part. I had no financilal loss by not working for 3ABN any longer. For me it was a matter of honesty and truthfulness to what I saw and experienced.

I agree wholeheartedly also with your statement that "What matters is setting things right today; going to the Lord and finally putting ourselves completely in His hands." I know this applies to me. Do you honestly think that Danny Shelton is excempt from this because he happens to be the founder of 3ABN? He might still win the court case, because he has a powerful and expensive battery of experts at bending laws and regulations. Does it exonerate him in the final judgment if he wins this case? Or does that not matter to you? To me it does.

[justice4jesus]

J4J, are you saying it is alright for you to jump in the middle of a conversation between Bob and AT and give your take on what AT was saying but it is not alright for me to do the same and give my take on what AT was saying? That is what I was doing. It was not my motive or intent to annoy you. No one can annoy, anger etc., us unless we choose to be so. Unfortunately a lot of people go through life blaming everyone and everything for the choices they themselves have made.

Dona

edited for repeating a word.

Apparently, I am not making my point clearly enough. Let me try again.

I had asked Appletree a direct question about his post, and it seemed to me as though you were trying to answer it. I am all for the free exchange of ideas, but when I ask someone a direct question, I always prefer to hear from that person first, after which I have no problem with the input of others. I do not recall ever doing this myself, but if I have, then yes, I was out of line as well. To me, it is just common courtesy to allow someone to first answer a question that has been asked of them specifically.

Regardless, you tell me that it was not your intent to annoy me, and I will take you at your word. As far as I'm concerned, this problem is solved, so we can move on. Thank you, Dona, for your willingness to reply without being a jerk about it.

[fallible humanbe...]

Shotly after this occured in 2004 I called Dr. Walt Thompson and asked him how they could be following the initiation of this evil spirit. He assured me that an evil spirit could be a blessing to 3ABN! Do you blame me then for questioning if they were on the right track?

This would be an example of an outright lie, and of course one would just have to take your word for it since it was a phone conversation and there is nothing that can be used to establish the veracity of your comments. This isn't the first time that you have tried to float this insanity. What I will blame you for is such a virulent attack on Dr. Thompson when you know he wouldn't and didn't say such a thing.

- FHB

This post has been edited by fallible humanbeing: Mar 7 2008, 09:40 AM

[Johann]

This would be an example of an outright lie, and of course one would just have to take your word for it since it was a phone conversation and there is nothing that can be used to establish the veracity of your comments. This isn't the first time that you have tried to float this insanity. What I will blame you for is such a virulent attack on Dr. Thompson when you know he wouldn't and didn't say such a thing.

- FHB

Some of it was also said to me eye to eye. We met both at West Frankfurt and at the General Conference Session.

We were not taught to lie at Emmannuel Missionary College. I do not know where he learned it.

He said several thing to me that he denied later having said - after he had talked with Nick Miller. But I made my notes of such things.

[fallible humanbe...]

Some of it was also said to me eye to eye. We met both at West Frankfurt and at the General Conference Session.

We were not taught to lie at Emmannuel Missionary College. I do not know where he learned it.

He said several thing to me that he denied later having said - after he had talked with Nick Miller. But I made my notes of such things.

I am not going to get into a juvenile tit-for-tat with you Johann. A faith in the truth that you will one day have to account for this lie will suffice.

- FHB

[Pickle]

No, you weren't. Sp is totally correct.

You are incorrect, though why I do not know, since you wrote the post I was commenting on:

He went to the GC and N. Amercian leaders to defame Danny and 3abn to the church! Did he get this done? No, in fact after all the "junk" has landed and been sorted Danny and 3abn are still in contact and being supported by leaders like Don Scheider, NAD President.

I have enough confidence in our church leaders to believe you are incorrect that Don Schneider and others felt it was fine for Danny to cover up his brother's child moelestation allegations.

Or maybe you could clarify and tell us exactly what subjects you believe Gailon talked to them about, if those topics didn't include the child molestation allegations?

[Pickle]

What I got from what appletree was pointing out is that Bob has made accusations, maligning and slandering, and spreading it abroad and he had no proof, one way or the other, whether what he was saying was true or not.

And that is false. If 3ABN reports to the IRS that they sold a house at a $40,000+ loss to some unnamed person, and that person happened to be Danny Shelton, as indicated by courthouse records, then for everyday purposes that is proof that Danny engaged in a section 4958 excess benefit transaction.

[Johann]

I am not going to get into a juvenile tit-for-tat with you Johann. A faith in the truth that you will one day have to account for this lie will suffice.

- FHB

I only state it as I experience it - and on this basis I am ready to meet my Lord in the final judgment. Were you there?

[Johann]

will one day. . . account for this lie will suffice.

- FHB

Briefing through those phone conversations. . . At one point your father stated, "You can't prove I said that, because I said that on the phone!" Was he stating a truth when he said that? I suppose God has no access to phone lines?

Tell me, how can Danny Shelton and others then keep claiming they have proofs of what was said on the phone?

[appletree]

Some of it was also said to me eye to eye. We met both at West Frankfurt and at the General Conference Session.

We were not taught to lie at Emmannuel Missionary College. I do not know where he learned it.

He said several thing to me that he denied later having said - after he had talked with Nick Miller. But I made my notes of such things.

Sadly I must say then, that you may be deaf and blind. I am really not concerned at all with what you think you heard, I would stake my life that Dr. Walt did not say anything about an evil spirit being good. That is absolutely ridiculous. I have know Walt for many many years, you have not. His actions, words and attitude reflect nothing except a deep spiritual walk with God. His leadership at 3abn has been beyond reproach. Anyone that truly knows him, knows that his goal in life is to live for Jesus. His behaviour backs it up.

That leaves 2 options for you. Either you are lying or you completely misunderstood what was said. I would prefer to think the latter.

[appletree]

And that is false. If 3ABN reports to the IRS that they sold a house at a $40,000+ loss to some unnamed person, and that person happened to be Danny Shelton, as indicated by courthouse records, then for everyday purposes that is proof that Danny engaged in a section 4958 excess benefit transaction.

See you are still beating that poor dead horse. Use some common sense Pickle. If a terrible wrong had been committed but was on public record, don't you think something would have happened long ago? Not to mention that you continually ignore the fact that 3 law firms and an auditing firm have examined it, as what it is, a life trust, and all have found it to be above board. Do you honestly think you know something that they don't?

[appletree]

Appletree, did you stop and think about this post before making it? The statement from your post that I bolded above all but gives Bob the proof that he needs! You made no statement or implication that evidence of wrongdoing would NOT be found in Danny's financial records, but you directly stated that those records would be "the only way" for Bob to prove that what he has been saying is true.

Right or wrong, this is why the mind and the mouth (or in this case, the keyboard) should be permanently interfaced.

Yes I did. Did you think about it as you were reading it? I was simply trying to look at this from Bob's angle. If he (Bob) thinks that he needs Danny's financial records to prove wrong doing (in Bob's mind) then how can he be making all of his accusations against Danny in the meantime without having seen those records?
Hope that simplifies it for you.

[Johann]

Sadly I must say then, that you may be deaf and blind. I am really not concerned at all with what you think you heard, I would stake my life that Dr. Walt did not say anything about an evil spirit being good. That is absolutely ridiculous. I have know Walt for many many years, you have not. His actions, words and attitude reflect nothing except a deep spiritual walk with God. His leadership at 3abn has been beyond reproach. Anyone that truly knows him, knows that his goal in life is to live for Jesus. His behaviour backs it up.

That leaves 2 options for you. Either you are lying or you completely misunderstood what was said. I would prefer to think the latter.

You left out one option, that Dr. Walt misspoke in his eagerness to convince me all was as it should be. It is very possible he regretted afterwards what he said.

I went to college with Walt back in 1952-54. He was a hard worker. I suppose he spent most of his time studying, because he did not take part in many campus activities where I saw him. But we "bumped into each other" in the dormitory, the cafetieria, etc. Where were you then? My brother-in-law was his classmate at Wisconsin Academy and all through College. Something like 1947 to 1955 - or thereabouts. Did you know Walt before that? Then you should have retired by now.

[Johann]

Sadly I must say then, that you may be deaf and blind.

Back in 2004 Danny Shelton was telling everybody that I had Alzheimer´s. I suppose he was trying his best to stifle my testimony. I see you people are still trying.

[Pickle]

See you are still beating that poor dead horse.

You mean Danny has given back the money? Why hasn't someone said so before?

If Danny has made it right, that would make it a dead horse. But if he hasn't, it ain't dead.