Is The General Conference Afraid Of Blacksda? Options

[SoulEspresso]

Actually, since we are saved by grace *through* faith... rather than by grace *plus* faith... then it's more of an integral calculus equation than an arithmetic one... to wit...

I was actually thinking more of a chemistry equation where two substances, if you will, react, and produce two other substances.

Grace + faith = salvation + works

where yes, grace is through faith, and works are a chemical byproduct of the reaction that produces salvation (salvation used in this sense of being righteous before God).

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Aug 24 2007, 10:07 PM

[SoulEspresso]

I don't think that it is necessary to name names. Those who support the SDA faith and doctrines, are able to recognize one another by what they posts, and well able to identify those among them who continually argue against and attack the fundmental beliefs and prophetic interpretations. They can see how many mock the pillars of the SDA faith and Ellen White as well, or constantly try to undermine our biblical truths whenever they come up in a topic here. It is also fairly obvious to myself that those doing so are for the most part those who flocked here to attack the Three Angel's broadcasting Network.

I've had enough other's say the same thing to me unsolicited, so know I'm not the only one who sees and believes this.

You see only what you want to see, Cindy, but of course that's your choice. Bob Pickle is nobody's flaming liberal ... have you looked at his publications?

Liberal or conservative, those who "attack" 3ABN on these boards have one thing in common: a strong desire for righteousness in positions of high responsibility in God's work. At the very least, "avoiding the appearance of evil" would be a step forward.

As for Soul, he is not a traditionalist. He could not possibly care less about the "pillars" as such--he just wants his church to rightly divide the Word, no matter what that costs them in membership or the cherished traditions of men ... and he sticks around BSDA because he's not alone in that desire ...

[erik]

Johann,

I don't think that it is necessary to name names. Those who support the SDA faith and doctrines, are able to recognize one another by what they posts, and well able to identify those among them who continually argue against and attack the fundmental beliefs and prophetic interpretations. They can see how many mock the pillars of the SDA faith and Ellen White as well, or constantly try to undermine our biblical truths whenever they come up in a topic here. It is also fairly obvious to myself that those doing so are for the most part those who flocked here to attack the Three Angel's broadcasting Network.

I've had enough other's say the same thing to me unsolicited, so know I'm not the only one who sees and believes this.

Those who are doing the arguing and trying to change things, know who they are. Those who are accusing 3ABN but who support all the SDA doctrines and faith also know who they are, and so they know I'm not talking about them.

I'm sure those who just read or lurk here are intelligent enough to see all this for themselves also.
If you disagree with that? Ok. I guess you disagree.

~ Aletheia

Aletheia,

I am very conservative SDA, and i am very trouble by the news coming out of 3abn.

Erik

[sonshineonme]

Alethia posted....

" It is also fairly obvious to myself that those doing so are for the most part those who flocked here to attack the Three Angel's broadcasting Network. "



I challenge you to show me and everyone where this has been done by all "those who flocked here".
I am sick and tired of this accusation. It's not only detracting from the real issues, which seems to be your groups "plan" but it's an outright mistruth. This road has been traveled over and over, and I can't believe you keep saying it.
So, I'm waiting for you to show us where the flockees have attacked 3abn. As usual, we will probably keep waiting, because I don't believe you can show it. Guess we'll see.
.........................................................

[västergötland]

Johann,

I don't think that it is necessary to name names. Those who support the SDA faith and doctrines, are able to recognize one another by what they posts, and well able to identify those among them who continually argue against and attack the fundmental beliefs and prophetic interpretations. They can see how many mock the pillars of the SDA faith and Ellen White as well, or constantly try to undermine our biblical truths whenever they come up in a topic here. It is also fairly obvious to myself that those doing so are for the most part those who flocked here to attack the Three Angel's broadcasting Network.

I've had enough other's say the same thing to me unsolicited, so know I'm not the only one who sees and believes this.

Those who are doing the arguing and trying to change things, know who they are. Those who are accusing 3ABN but who support all the SDA doctrines and faith also know who they are, and so they know I'm not talking about them.

I'm sure those who just read or lurk here are intelligent enough to see all this for themselves also.


If you disagree with that? Ok. I guess you disagree.

~ Aletheia

In other words, you couldnt find the posts to quote that would substantiate your earlier claim...

[HUGGINS130]

DEEP

[Seraphim7]

Johann,

I don't think that it is necessary to name names...

I'm sure those who just read or lurk here are intelligent enough to see all this for themselves also.
If you disagree with that? Ok. I guess you disagree.

~ Aletheia

Aletheia aka Cindy regardless of attempts by those of you who support the behavior of the leadership at 3ABN, the fact is 3ABN is NOT a required part of the faith of believers within our church, 3ABN is NOT a doctrine, 3ABN is NOT a fundamental belief nor is it even spoken of in prophetic interpretation.

We know we have intelligent readers and lurkers on BSDA. Many of those who read and/or simply lurk here are intelligent enough to see that BSDA members have a high standard and know that the behavior publicly displayed by the leadership at 3ABN is NOT about questioning the "SDA faith and doctrines". These same readers and/or lurkers are also intelligent enough to recognize that we, expect a higher standards of the leadership at 3ABN, are NOT attacking the "fundamental beliefs and prophetic interpretations" of the church. NOR is 3ABN equal in ANY form or fashion to the "pillars of the SDA faith and Ellen White". If the readers/lurkers actually believe any such thing then they believed a cleverly designed lie.

Finally, to be sure we are on the same page, 3ABN is NOT a pillar of the SDA faith by any stretch of the imagination. So those who continue to plant those seeds of misinformation, whether intentionally or not, are bearing false witness (IOW my grandmother would call that a lie). Not to mention the leadership of 3ABN has clearly stated that 3ABN is a not-for-profit independently owned ministry and have noted, through their own publications, what 3ABN's real affiliation with the Seventh day Adventist church.


NOTE: Our intelligent readers/lurkers can also recognize that honest hard working believers in the Adventist church have been misled for over 20yrs and have supported 3ABN by viewing the programming and sending their hard earned money, via tithes to 3ABN, thinking that they were supporting the Seventh day Adventist denomination.

[Johann]

Liberal or conservative, those who "attack" 3ABN on these boards have one thing in common: a strong desire for righteousness in positions of high responsibility in God's work. At the very least, "avoiding the appearance of evil" would be a step forward.

My prayer is that Cindy and others would come to this realization.

[watchbird]

Aletheia aka Cindy regardless of attempts by those of you who support the behavior of the leadership at 3ABN, the fact is 3ABN is NOT a required part of the faith of believers within our church, 3ABN is NOT a doctrine, 3ABN is NOT a fundamental belief nor is it even spoken of in prophetic interpretation.

. . . . . .

NOTE: Our intelligent readers/lurkers can also recognize that honest hard working believers in the Adventist church have been misled for over 20yrs and have supported 3ABN by viewing the programming and sending their hard earned money, via tithes to 3ABN, thinking that they were supporting the Seventh day Adventist denomination.

What I'm wondering is why Cindy is making this much todo over the SDA denomination and their doctrines when, if my understanding is correct, she herself is not a member of said denomination... but of an independent church which is.... well... what is it, Cindy... does it consider itself an offshoot of the SDA denomination... or an independent organization on the fringe of Adventism.... or as a "reform movement"... from either within or along-side-of the official orgainization.. or "other"?

It would, I think, help us to relate more accurately and understandingly to your comments in doctrinal areas if we knew more about your own convictions in those areas... and those of your pastor and his congregations.

Also.. one more question.... How formally is your church affiliated with The Historic Adventist Church? by which I mean the one which we are seeing on Google when we use that as a search criteria. I don't mean merely as the phrase "historic Adventism" is used to describe how the SDA church has developed through history.

Thank you in advance for answering these questions and thus clearing up any confusion we have as to whether you speak from within the SDA church as a member of one of the "sisterhood of SDA churches" as the various SDA Conference churches are called.... or if you speak as one who is not happy with the direction the SDA church as a whole is going at present so have affiliated yourself with some other local church group.

[panther]

January to May of 2004, people knew that Danny, and possibly some of his henchmen, had decided that Linda had to disappear from 3ABN. Why? Because Linda was gaining a greater and greater audience with her devotionals and her songs where her message of salvation by grace alone was coming out clearer and clearer. To some this was not "historic adventism" and there was a growing fear that the support of wealthy "historic adventists" would dwindle. They felt certain the financial support of 3ABN would increase if Linda disappeared. Unfortunately the vision of the prophet did not come from the right source, so the support decreased in stead.

At that time some of these people were still honest enough to state that it came in handy that Dr. Arild Abrahamsen could be used as a tool to get rid of Linda, so they tried to give him the blame for the divorce which would have taken place anyway, sooner or later. Linda was not aware of this, so she did not take any precautions. At that time the spiritual adultery idea, apparently originating with New Age, was thought to be a useful doctrine.

The honest will know this to be right.

Johann, how can you say the above? 3ABN believes we are saved by grace alone. What is the matter with you? When you love someone, you want to please them right? When we accept this free grace given to us by the death of Jesus, we want to please Him by obeying Him. We are saved by grace alone but we will not be saved without good works. Sister White says we must have a perfect character in order to live in a perfect atmosphere of Heaven. Isn't God powerful enough to help us have a perfect character? Of course He is, didn't He make our world in six days? We have the power of choice and we need to choose to obey Him as a result of His free gift of salvation that shows His love to us.

The new theology teaches we don't need to worry about character perfection, that when Jesus comes we will be changed. Sorry, the Bible or SOP does not teach this. It is a lie from the devil. The devil wants one to believe this lie until after probation closes and it is too late. Sister White says there were SDA's who were wailing after probation closed because they believed the devils lies.

[SoulEspresso]

The new theology teaches we don't need to worry about character perfection, that when Jesus comes we will be changed. Sorry, the Bible or SOP does not teach this. It is a lie from the devil. The devil wants one to believe this lie until after probation closes and it is too late. Sister White says there were SDA's who were wailing after probation closed because they believed the devils lies.

But panther, this "old" theology can't have it both ways ... either Jesus makes us right with God, thereby qualifying us for heaven, or we have to wait for God to perfect our characters to qualify us for heaven.

Either Jesus paid it all, or not. Either He's the main character here, or not. Either we're saved by what God does for us, or not. (That would include what God does in us!).

Nobody's arguing that the law isn't important, or that character growth isn't important, or that righteous living isn't important (these boards wouldn't exist except to call major Adventist leaders toward high standards of life). That's just not what makes us right in God's eyes, and it's not what gets us into heaven when Jesus comes.

The Adventists who have the biggest problems with Catholics don't seem to notice that they proclaim Catholic theology.

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Aug 25 2007, 08:37 AM

[watchbird]

Johann, how can you say the above? 3ABN believes we are saved by grace alone. What is the matter with you? When you love someone, you want to please them right? When we accept this free grace given to us by the death of Jesus, we want to please Him by obeying Him. We are saved by grace alone but we will not be saved without good works. Sister White says we must have a perfect character in order to live in a perfect atmosphere of Heaven. Isn't God powerful enough to help us have a perfect character? Of course He is, didn't He make our world in six days? We have the power of choice and we need to choose to obey Him as a result of His free gift of salvation that shows His love to us.

The new theology teaches we don't need to worry about character perfection, that when Jesus comes we will be changed. Sorry, the Bible or SOP does not teach this. It is a lie from the devil. The devil wants one to believe this lie until after probation closes and it is too late. Sister White says there were SDA's who were wailing after probation closed because they believed the devils lies.

The real question might be the cause of their wailing....that is.... which lies they believed.... IF she made such a statement at all. Would you please find it and post the exact wording along with the exact location where this may be found?

For all who are interested, concerned, or confused about the issue of perfection ... particularly as to what Ellen White REALLY said on the topic... I highly recommend a book written by Helmut Ott, who at the time of writing was a professor of religion in an Adventist college. The title is Perfect in Christ, and you may read it on-line (for free) by clicking on the title.

As for the term "new theology"... you really need to do some careful study on your own ... in materials other than those which make this kind of attacts on various ones whom they accuse of teaching "new theology". There are a whole bunch of connections and subtleties that you are completely missing... though no doubt you are accurately parroting those from whom you got your information.

[västergötland]

Johann, how can you say the above? 3ABN believes we are saved by grace alone. What is the matter with you? When you love someone, you want to please them right? When we accept this free grace given to us by the death of Jesus, we want to please Him by obeying Him. We are saved by grace alone but we will not be saved without good works. Sister White says we must have a perfect character in order to live in a perfect atmosphere of Heaven. Isn't God powerful enough to help us have a perfect character? Of course He is, didn't He make our world in six days? We have the power of choice and we need to choose to obey Him as a result of His free gift of salvation that shows His love to us.

The new theology teaches we don't need to worry about character perfection, that when Jesus comes we will be changed. Sorry, the Bible or SOP does not teach this. It is a lie from the devil. The devil wants one to believe this lie until after probation closes and it is too late. Sister White says there were SDA's who were wailing after probation closed because they believed the devils lies.

Are the reformators, whom Ellen had so much good to say about, written in the book of life?

If yes, on what grounds are they mentioned in that book?

[sonshineonme]

The real question might be the cause of their wailing....that is.... which lies they believed.... IF she made such a statement at all. Would you please find it and post the exact wording along with the exact location where this may be found?

For all who are interested, concerned, or confused about the issue of perfection ... particularly as to what Ellen White REALLY said on the topic... I highly recommend a book written by Helmut Ott, who at the time of writing was a professor of religion in an Adventist college. The title is Perfect in Christ, and you may read it on-line (for free) by clicking on the title.

As for the term "new theology"... you really need to do some careful study on your own ... in materials other than those which make this kind of attacts on various ones whom they accuse of teaching "new theology". There are a whole bunch of connections and subtleties that you are completely missing... though no doubt you are accurately parroting those from whom you got your information.

Thank you for this link WB. I always get excited and enlighted when I read what she REALLY said for myself. Too many SDA's (or future SDA's, or for that matter those who decide not to be SDA's because of what they are "told" what she said AND what she meant) fall in to the trap of believing everything they are told, and don't check things out for themselves. I went through this on the wedding ring issue years ago, and made my final decision years before the "church" made theirs (ok, their last decision on it ).

[Johann]

Johann, how can you say the above? 3ABN believes we are saved by grace alone. What is the matter with you? When you love someone, you want to please them right? When we accept this free grace given to us by the death of Jesus, we want to please Him by obeying Him. We are saved by grace alone but we will not be saved without good works. Sister White says we must have a perfect character in order to live in a perfect atmosphere of Heaven. Isn't God powerful enough to help us have a perfect character? Of course He is, didn't He make our world in six days? We have the power of choice and we need to choose to obey Him as a result of His free gift of salvation that shows His love to us.

The new theology teaches we don't need to worry about character perfection, that when Jesus comes we will be changed. Sorry, the Bible or SOP does not teach this. It is a lie from the devil. The devil wants one to believe this lie until after probation closes and it is too late. Sister White says there were SDA's who were wailing after probation closed because they believed the devils lies.

I was going to reply to this when three grandchildren arrived for their Sabbath afternoon ride in the mountains. We did have a wonderful time out there in beautiful nature God has given us. In the meantime several others have replied, each as they see it.

But what are you really saying, Lee? It seems to me you are attacking me for something I did not say. I was not arguing for or against anything you took up. I was merely giving an account of how I experienced how those "God-fearing" people got rid of Linda, and you did not oppose that. In stead you infuse your interpretation of a doctrine, and attacked the straw man you created.

Will this wrongful attack improve your standing before God and help you on your way to perfection? Let*s be honest with Him!

Johann