Larry Romrell: Adventist Connections? Options

[Johann]

Ah but you are wrong. There is NO lying going on and there is NO deceiving going on. You have absolutely no proof of any such charges brought against 3abn except as people have gossiped about them. Nothing that can be proven in court.

Lee

Is a court the final judge? Is there no other judgment in this universe? In this world it is possible to use false witnesses, and this is how my Lord was convicted. I know in my heart what I have done and what I have seen, but I may not be able to convince a judge against other witnesses who are making false claims.

This post has been edited by Johann: Aug 29 2007, 03:36 PM

[Aletheia]

Thats right. They are trying to be a two-faced Janus: non denominational and non affiliated with the church when they talk to the court, and fully Adventist and denominational to the Adventists when they need Adventist money. That is called disingenuous and deceitful.

For those of you who don't know. Here is what the big stink is being made about.

The exact wording of the lawsuit is as follows:

"Founded in 1985 and incorporated in 1986, 3ABN is an Illinois
non-profit corporation, the primary business of which is to operate
and manage a Christian television and radio broadcast ministry.
...

Although many of 3ABN's employees and volunteers, including
Plaintiff Shelton, are members of the Seventh-Day Adventist faith,
3ABN is a non-denominational Christian ministry which is not
owned by, affiliated with, or financed by any specific church,
denomination, or organization."

Lawsuit: http://references4links.blogspot.com/2007/...are-served.html

This is no different then the "About 3ABN" webpage which has been on the 3ABN website for years...

"3ABN is not owned, operated or funded by any church, denomination or organization, so people from all cultures and backgrounds appreciate 3ABN programming. Many of 3ABN's employees and volunteers are members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

View the "Joint Declaration of Commitment" document between the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventist and Three Angels Broadcasting Network."
http://www.3abn.org/about_3abn.cfm

You can only be one or the other and say it one way or the other,
How would the critics respond if the lawsuit filed against Pickle and Joy said this?

"3ABN is a denominational ministry for Seventh-Day Adventists, 3ABN is owned, affiliated with, and financed by the Seventh-Day Adventist Church and organization"

Yeah, WW3 would break out.



The critics will never notice that 3ABN's about us page says the many are SDA's and there is a joint declaration and agreement with the SDA conference, and yet the "About us' page for the Hope channel. which they have been pushing for over 3ABN, says nothing about being SDA, (see for yourself) or that they have a denominational message or mission, or even about being owned and operated and financed by the GC, which they are...

http://www.hopetv.org/article.php?id=2&...ec32655477310ff
About Us

Updated: Aug 5, 2004

The Hope Channel is a Christian television network that seeks to bring everlasting hope to people around the world. We believe true inner peace and contentment is found in Jesus Christ. Our programming is designed to help people experience the abundant life that Jesus promised in John 10:10.



Our programs communicate our core beliefs from the Holy Bible:

*
God is love and He has revealed Himself in His Son Jesus Christ. 1 John 4:16; John 14:9.
*
Jesus is the divine Son of God and is not a created being, but is the eternal God. John 1:1.
*
Jesus came to this earth to live a perfect life without sin and give His life on the cross to pay the penalty for our sin. Romans 5:6-10.
*
When Jesus comes into our lives He makes us new creatures. 2 Corinthians 5:17. He writes His law in our hearts and we seek to live in a way that honors God. Hebrews 8:10; John 14:15.
*
Bible prophecy reveals that the end of this world is imminent and Jesus will soon return. Revelation 22:12.
*
Our mission is to help people prepare to not only live for Jesus in this world, but to also be prepared for His soon return. Revelation 22:17.

How non-denominational is "Christian television Network" ? If the critics can't notice that, then how can they notice that the three angel's broadcasting network has a problem?

The critics are also very concerned about whether one of the newest 3ABN board members, Larry Romwell, is SDA, ( see the name of this thread) but when FHB posted an article on the Hope thread, about Ken Blanchard, they couldn't even care about a non SDA new age speaker who promotes other religions, and a series by him being promoted and broadcast on the Hope Channel.

Not all replies were negative but the majority of The concerns and replies from 3ABN's critics and attackers was not even related to the topic, as they voiced more pressing concerns:

1. The article was too long

"was the post long enough?"

"Yup - way too long. Perhaps FHB would like to summarize it into the 30 second version..."

" FHB, this IS a bit long, folks do have lives outside of BSDA, believe it or not"

2. Let's ignore all that and attack Shelly Quinn, her husband and the Steensons instead.

"Was that post long enough? I dunno, Clay, but likewise, i'd like to see a complete profile of Shelly Quinn. I heard enough from her to recognize something strange in her background.."

" Do we have such detailed background info to post about The Quinns and the Steensons? I am sure you could provide us with this information quite easily."

3. again "long" plus copyright criticisms

"FHB, the long comentary you supplied about Ken Blanchardwas written by letusreason.org and can be found here http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac33.htm --right?

And at the bottom of the article it warns:

© 2006 No portion of this site is to be copied or used unless kept in its original format the way it appears. Articles can be reproduced in portions for ones personal use, any other use is to have the permission of the author first. Thank You.


And you changed some of the format (links), right?"

4.). A couple of attempts to change of the subject

"New age spiritualism also seem to believe in spiritual adultery. Isn't that an important subject?"

"Fallible Human Being...

Do you believe that Danny Shelton is intellectually honest?

Do you believe he had Biblical grounds for divorce?

Do you really believe his lawsuits are necessary?

Can you honestly say you didn't cringe when you found out he was marrying a girl younger than his own daughter?"

"Can we still spell *D*I*V*E*R*S*I*O*N*."

I kid you not. None of those writing these things even cared about the subject they were replying to, the quotes above are their literal replies about what concerned them more.

read it all here http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...annel&st=60


Who can take the kind of thing above seriously?
Not me.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Aug 29 2007, 12:44 PM

[princessdi]

Therein lies the problem, Lee. there ought not be any lies, whether they can be proven in court or not. WE are held to a God's standard as Christian, and the Bible says, "Thou shalt not bare false witness" They have lied and deceived when they solicited and received donations from SDA members who thought by their name, message, and programming that they were indeed a SDA ministry. However, I do see hwat you are saying about being able to prove it in court, because one day while at my parents home I noticed that there were no references to being affiliated with the SDA church in their station identification. It struck me a being strange, but just in passing. Now, I have never in my life before this mess even seen 3ABN, but now have watched it enough to know that they have been careful not to make that claim in the identification if the network. That within itself is a lie of omission, becuase they never said what they were either. A lie is a lie.

Ah but you are wrong. There is NO lying going on and there is NO deceiving going on. You have absolutely no proof of any such charges brought against 3abn except as people have gossiped about them. Nothing that can be proven in court.

Lee

[beartrap]

The affiliation can easily be proven in a court of law.

- Up until recently the Review published 3ABN's info under their Adventist Media section.
- In a publication put out by the church 3ABN was given credit as the grandfather of Adventist satellite TV.
- Atlantic Union & 3ABN Productions (in the Atlantic Union Conference)
- The conference in Nizhny Novgorod having offices in the 3ABN complex
- 3ABN's ASI membership
- The content of 3ABN's programming consists of SDA doctrines and teachings
- Etc

This post has been edited by beartrap: Aug 29 2007, 01:11 PM

[princessdi]

Exactly Bear..............it is just a lie, whether it is to the court or their supporters, or both(which is probably truest) it is a lie.

[beartrap]

Cindy, there is a big difference between the statements on the 3ABN website and the lawsuit. The website sticks to the truth, and the lawsuit crosses the line into lies. The website does not deny affiliation with the church, nor does it describe the programming as non denominational, as the lawsuit does.

BTW, I don't know what Hope Channel has to do with it, but they didn't sue someone and lie. 3ABN and Danny did.

This post has been edited by beartrap: Aug 29 2007, 02:41 PM

[awesumtenor]

Not to mention the most obvious reason for the lawsuit to claim that 3ABN is "non-denominational"... if they admit being Adventist, it severely limits the number of people to whom the allegations on the Save3ABN website would really matter...since the bulk of Adventists in North America don't even get 3ABN, much less the world church...so in order to seem that they were defamed in the most egregious manner, they had to make it seem as if the largest possible pool of potential donors would be affected by what was said by saying they were "non-denominational"... whether that was true or not.

In His service,
Mr. J

[Dona]

If I wanted to look for that astounding success you mentioned, I would first look in Illinois, which is home to the non-denominational broadcaster.

http://www.bvanet.org/

Broadview Academy (1909 - 2007)

"It is with deep disappointment that Broadview Academy announces that we have closed operations at the end of the 2006-2007 school year."

If you are going to credit an organization with astounding success are you also going to debit them for the notable failures?

How is it that anyone can lay the closing of Broadview Academy completely at 3ABN’s door and call it their failure? It seems you have left out quite a few people who really were the ones who made the decision. Also we do not know the reasons for their decision.

"The Closing of Broadview Academy
Published Tuesday, April 10, 2007
After intense deliberations and negotiations by the students and staff at BVA with the appropriate Illinois conference of committees (constituency meeting in session, executive committee, Board of Education, and Broadview Academy Board), exploring many different possibilities (including a collaborative effort with Indiana Academy), it was determined that Broadview Academy--including the boarding campus and all BVAnet campuses and programs--would conclude all operations at the end of this school year." The second page of the quote you gave.

Dona

[Panama_Pete]

How would the critics respond if the lawsuit filed against Pickle and Joy said this?

"3ABN is a denominational ministry for Seventh-Day Adventists, 3ABN is owned, affiliated with, and financed by the Seventh-Day Adventist Church and organization"

Yeah, WW3 would break out.

http://www.beglad.com/download/3abn/cv_winter_2000.pdf

Page Two

"3ABN is a not-for-profit supporting ministry of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and is a member of Adventist-laymen’s Services and Industries (ASI).


The lawsuit reads:

http://www.save3abn.com/3abn-and-danny-v-j...e-complaint.htm

"Although many of 3ABN's employees and volunteers, including Plaintiff Shelton, are members of the Seventh-Day Adventist faith, 3ABN is a non-denominational Christian ministry which is not owned by, affiliated with, or financed by any specific church, denomination, or organization....Since its inception, Shelton and 3ABN have worked tirelessly to promote 3ABN's ministry and to spread its unique, non-denominational "Return to God" message."


So, we gather from combining these statements from Catch the Vision and the lawsuit that 3ABN is an independent, non-denominational ministry with a unique "Return to God Message -- preached from 3ABN's inception -- except during the many years they have been a supporting ministry of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and a member in good standing of Adventist-Laymen's Services and Industries from which 3ABN has received hundreds of thousands of dollars in funding for special projects, and with the ASI offices being located inside the Adventist Church headquarters.

Certainly a group of ordinary Massachusetts residents on the jury -- when they not breaking for their Starbucks coffee and their ham and cheese sandwiches -- will take the time to understand the deep and profound nature of how non-denominational proselytizing into the Seventh-day Adventist sect works. It's all just so simple

And remember, the point of all this is that the plaintiff is trying to show that Pickle and Joy may have had the brazen audacity to say things that are not true.

[Panama_Pete]

How is it that anyone can lay the closing of Broadview Academy completely at 3ABN’s door and call it their failure?
Dona

You are right, they can't.

If people are going to give 3ABN credit for the lion's share of successes inside Adventism, and some people actually have, then by the same token, doesn't 3ABN get credit for a goodly number of the failures, too?

There are two sides to the same subway token.

Yes, its irrational, and that was my point. Thanks for understanding.

[Fran]

Sorry folks; I am a slow reader! I can't let this go by! Sorry, this is my opinion.

Our Lord Jesus Christ told us to go unto all the world and preach the gospel.

Fran: He did not say that 3ABN or Danny Shelton would always be that avenue! The air waves belong to God. The messages that are saving others are from the Doug Bachelor preachers. NOT Danny Shelton! Give credit where credit is due. Danny followed the money. God uses what he will to do his work. I hear the drums beating for a new avenue for spreading the gospel. All Danny can do is run re-runs of yesterday/yesteryear. Today's message are already getting out through other avenues!


No one can say that 3ABN is not doing that 24 hours a day every week of the year.

Fran: I can! I have been watching reruns! It is getting old.

So, what grounds does any one of us have to say otherwise?

Fran: See above.

They are also teaching the prophecies.

Fran: Yes, you are so right! They (Danny and crew) ARE preaching THEIR OWN prophecies! They preach their dreams and visions! Where did that dream and vision go that brought us 3ABN Amazing Facts? Oops! Missed on that didn't we? The real prophecies are being covered by Seventh-day Adventist preachers worldwide! Oops. No new programming is allowed, right? Wonder why? Maybe it is all of the personal prophecies being preached by the "profits" of Danny Shelton and crew!

They also teach good health,

Fran: That is a matter of severe debate. Is it healthy to place a person who has had a problem with sexual behavior for 30 years to be placed in the same area as children. Is this healthy? Is allegedly molesting your stepdaughter healthy? Are financial improprieties healthy? This is a relative comment. They can talk the talk, but are they walking the walk?

make known the different missionary projects and many other things that the majority of us also agree with and believe it a privilege to help with.

Fran: Are you speaking of Maranatha? This is a fairly new program. I call it the Garwin McNeilus hour! He and Fjarily (SP?) reign supreme. This, I consider damage control! Let us praise the donor hour. Are they doing good works? Absolutely! Why did we never see these programs before? Damage Control? Absolutely. The Seventh-day Adventist church has a mission program second to none! It is far superior to little puny Danny Shelton, or anything ever thought of by Danny Shelton.. Danny is not about missions He is about Danny Shelton, 1st and last!

He shoots anything out on the airwaves and just hopes these remote places have satellites! Billions of "POTENTIAL VIEWERS" he sings in his mantra! How many waves are falling on dead ears for lack of tools to even use the services sent out?

They have even included the little children.

Fran: You are so right! Shame on them!

So I wonder just what it is that has gotten some to believe otherwise. If the question that has been put to some here was asked of the Lord would He not say, “Luke 9:50 ““Forbid [him] not: for he that is not against us is for us.”

Fran: I wonder how many child predators use these very words to get around the kids?

3ABN is being used of God to reach millions of souls with the gospel message.

Fran: Be careful here. Don't blame God for this mess being everywhere! This mess is Danny Shelton's own making, period. It appears to me that God is showing us a new plan without the likes of Danny Shelton

The numbers that are giving their lives to the Lord is astounding.

Fran: We can't give credit to Danny for that anymore than I can give myself credit. The "HARVEST" belongs to the Lord! Not to me, 3ABN or Danny Shelton! Period!

A people are being prepared to meet the Lord when He returns. That is going to be very soon. We should all be lifting our heads and rejoicing for were we not told, Mat 24:14 “And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”

Fran: As far as I am concerned, Danny Shelton is the reason so many have lost their money. Some call it false advertising! "We are a Seventh-day Adventist Supporting Ministry." 3ABN has preached for years! Now, we hear, "Oops, No we are NOT!" It is my contention that 3ABN has never been Seventh-day Adventist supporting ministry, but has always been about preaching Danny Shelton's version of himself out after God's money for himself and for self glorification.. Now all are seeing the inside core of his soul and stand amazed at the frightening sight.


Dona

[Snoopy]

How is it that anyone can lay the closing of Broadview Academy completely at 3ABN’s door and call it their failure? It seems you have left out quite a few people who really were the ones who made the decision. Also we do not know the reasons for their decision.

"The Closing of Broadview Academy
Published Tuesday, April 10, 2007
After intense deliberations and negotiations by the students and staff at BVA with the appropriate Illinois conference of committees (constituency meeting in session, executive committee, Board of Education, and Broadview Academy Board), exploring many different possibilities (including a collaborative effort with Indiana Academy), it was determined that Broadview Academy--including the boarding campus and all BVAnet campuses and programs--would conclude all operations at the end of this school year." The second page of the quote you gave.

Dona

Hhhmm. Let's see. 3ABN spends money for a regulation basketball floor in their gymnasium. 3ABN donates money to the local high school sports program. 3ABN leases a plane for convenience. 3ABN paves its own "Angel Lane" to cut out a mile or two of driving between 3ABN properties. 3ABN turns the intended sanctuary exhibit building into a worship center to avoid paying property taxes.

What if those funds had gone to BVA??? .....just a thought.... I happened to attend BVA and have other family ties there. I am truly saddened at the news of its closing.

Why not let a good outside accountant at those 3ABN payment records for the last 10 years and see how many "excesses" they might come up with... OK - go ahead and attack me - I'm ready....

This post has been edited by Snoopy: Aug 29 2007, 06:28 PM

[PeacefulBe]

Hhhmm. Let's see. 3ABN spends money for a regulation basketball floor in their gymnasium. 3ABN donates money to the local high school sports program. 3ABN leases a plane for convenience. 3ABN paves its own "Angel Lane" to cut out a mile or two of driving between 3ABN properties. 3ABN turns the intended sanctuary exhibit building into a worship center to avoid paying property taxes.

What if those funds had gone to BVA??? .....just a thought.... I happened to attend BVA and have other family ties there. I am truly saddened at the news of its closing.

Why not let a good outside accountant at those 3ABN payment records for the last 10 years and see how many "excesses" they might come up with... OK - go ahead and attack me - I'm ready....

Just need to make a small clarification that someone else may make anyway. The money that 3abn donated to a local high school sports program (see the Adventist Today News Roundup of around February 12th) was reportedly given by a donor who specified that this money was to go to community. This was not money from the general donors. I seriously don't have a moment to get the exact quote from a search, but I know it is there.

Now, what struck me was the timing of the closing of BVA. It was April 10th. The lawsuit was filed on April 5th. How was Broadview Academy related to 3abn? Would it have been a problem for the lawsuit to have an entity that was blatantly describing itself as Seventh-day Adventist tied to 3abn? The BVA site says the following:

Broadview Academy has been a Seventh-day Adventist high school
located in La Fox, Chicago, and Thompsonville, Illinois.
We served both day and boarding school students.

As Dona posted, we don't know the reason for the closing. That this was so close to the filing of the lawsuit just raised a few questions in my mind. It may not be related in any way, but would be nice to find out if there is a connection somehow.

[Snoopy]

Just need to make a small clarification that someone else may make anyway. The money that 3abn donated to a local high school sports program (see the Adventist Today News Roundup of around February 12th) was reportedly given by a donor who specified that this money was to go to community. This was not money from the general donors. I seriously don't have a moment to get the exact quote from a search, but I know it is there.

Now, what struck me was the timing of the closing of BVA. It was April 10th. The lawsuit was filed on April 5th. How was Broadview Academy related to 3abn? Would it have been a problem for the lawsuit to have an entity that was blatantly describing itself as Seventh-day Adventist tied to 3abn? The BVA site says the following:

Broadview Academy has been a Seventh-day Adventist high school
located in La Fox, Chicago, and Thompsonville, Illinois.
We served both day and boarding school students.

As Dona posted, we don't know the reason for the closing. That this was so close to the filing of the lawsuit just raised a few questions in my mind. It may not be related in any way, but would be nice to find out if there is a connection somehow.

Here's the link to the February 12 Adventist Today:

http://www.atoday.com/news/atnewsbreak/2007/02/12

I don't see the mention of "a specific donor", but I also don't think it really changes the point I was trying to make. And besides, what is the point of a specific donor making a donation through 3ABN that is intended for a local high school?? Why not just send the money directly to the school and leave 3ABN out of it???

Also keep in mind that there is now some doubt as to the specific donor who was supposedly paying for the plane, and the donor who is supposedly paying all these legal bills...

Is the 3ABN accounting system really sophisticated enough to keep track of all of these specific donors with their specific pet projects??? Just wondering...

This post has been edited by Snoopy: Aug 29 2007, 08:07 PM

[Richard Sherwin]

Give them time to hear from the anointed one what they are to say. It might take a little while for him to actually think of a good answer.

Aaahhh - finally some good discussion regarding my question of SDA donor refunds. Thanks all!

Interestingly, the obvious 3ABN "insiders" are curiously quiet on the topic...

appletree???

panther (lee...or whoever...)???