Latest On 3abn - Round 3, Kay Kuzma Response to L Shelton Story Options

[Guest_statrei_*]

What you will come to see is that here on this forum we don't hold back our opinions, our observations, our views.... to some that is a bit disconcerting....

Welcome to our world, Daryl. And the candor does not offend us. Other things do, of course.

[LadyTenor]

Kay Kuzma holds an EdD (Doctor of Education) degree, not a PhD (Doctor of Philosophy) degree.

This is a common misconception...a lot of folks realize that doctoral degrees have different abbreviations...they are not all Ph.D......

If a man relieves himself from the balcony and tells those on the sidewalk below that it's raining... if someone standing aside says to them... 'uh... that's not rain'... he has not judged the man on the balcony...

In His service,
Mr. J

[Daryl Fawcett]

Daryl,
That is not a statement of judgment, it is one of observation... you have expressed doubt in spite of all that you have read here.... what else would you call it? Anyone who expresses doubt like that here I will tell them what I am seeing.....

What you will come to see is that here on this forum we don't hold back our opinions, our observations, our views.... to some that is a bit disconcerting....

As I said before, its okay if you don't believe everything you read about 3abn, I don't... and its okay to say it.....

The just don't pretend part is judging another person. You call it observation. I call it judging.

[summertime]

The just don't pretend part is judging another person. You call it observation. I call it judging.

Daryl, please tell us why you have come to BSDA? I am not judging you but there must be a reason beyond plain curiosity. I guess that you have decided to be an observer.

[calvin]

The just don't pretend part is judging another person. You call it observation. I call it judging.

It ain’t that deep. Call it what you want. We pass judgment on each other all the time in our everyday course of life. Nobody here has a heaven or hell to put someone in. Judge me all you want.

[PrincessDrRe]

This is an example of first-hand information. This person was there and is "stating" what they heard directly from said "horses" mouth.

In some instances God gives us eyes and ears to see and hear. I was staying with Linda together with another friend at her daughter's place in Springfield at the time the Board met at Thompsonville. We came earlier to Thomsonville for the purpose of telling the Board what we had personally seen, observed and heard, but Danny had his "bodyguards", including Dr. Walt Thompson, come to us and ask us the leave the premises. Danny himself came around and threatened that if we appeared again on the 3ABN premises he would have the police arrest us for trespassiing private property. This happened on Thursday evening, May 27, 2004.

A staff member at 3ABN was hoping for a reconciliation and he tried to arrange a meeting on Friday, May 28. Some of us wanted Mark Finlay to be there, but 3ABN did not want to involve him at that stage. So it was arranged that I should meet with the 3ABN group on behalf of Linda and Dr. Arild Abrahamsen. We had to meet in West Frankfort because Danny had forbidden me to appear anywhere near the presmises of 3ABN. There I met with Dr. Walt Thompson, attorney Nick Miller, and pastor John Lomacang.

Having served in varous capacities within the Seventh-day Adventist Church for about 50 years I have been a member of many boards, but I have never in my life met a more hostile group than these men. They were so downright biased in favor of Danny and hostile towards Linda that I have never experienced anything like it, and never in a group of professing Christians. They wanted no reconciliation except on Danny's premises.

I tried to tell these men that my wife and I had been together with Dr. Arild Abrahamsen - the man Linda was accused of having had an affair with - during the whole period that they were supposed to have been together in Florida. And we were together with him in Norway where my wife received daily treatments from him for her cancer, making it impossible for him to be in Florida at the same time.

But these men had heard Danny's testimony, and that was all that they seemed to care about.

There was no possibility of any kind of reconciliation. All they seemed to care about was that Danny could get Linda off his back to get a Biblical mandate to marry someone else.

Walt Thompson finally stated a few weeks ago that I could have come to that Board meeting if I had asked him to let me speak there. I'd say he should not have waited to make that statement until two year later. Then he should have made that clear when I met with him two days before the Board meeting.

Walt Thompson was the one who said the least at that meeting. I had a feeling he was hesitating. So when I met with him alone after the others were gone, I laid out a plan of reconciliation and hopefully a restoration of the marriage between Danny and Linda, his response was,

- "Danny would never accept that. You know how Danny is."

I recognize the statements that your pastor friend claims Walt Thompson made to him. There is a truth in them. This is not how it really happened, but how Danny Shelton and the 3ABN Adminnistration would like the financial supporters of 3ABN should think it really happened.

Danny has made it clear to me in writing that God is not making him accountable for his actions since God needs him to run a TV station. He states that since God could use Moses and David and others who were murderers and adulterers, then he can also use Danny Shelton without him having to account for his sins.

If Danny had merely committed the sins of Moses and David and confessed his sins, it would be terrible of me to go against him. The only reason I participate in this discussion is because I have experienced how he has lied and humiliated his now former wife, Linda, and that he has used his wealth and influence to convince his friends and board members he is telling the truth, and that Linda deserves such utter humiliation.

I have not yet clarified all the questions that are raised, but let me stop here. But you are free to ask for more information on what I have experienced first hand iin this case.

Johann Thorvaldsson

....."Should any known corruption of leadership in the church, or any entity that reflects the image or message of the church be exposed?"

We are quick to "expose" that of other religions - but want to "hide under a bushel" our own.....

Exactly!! For example, in Matthew, we are told that when Joseph discovered Mary was with child, which he didn't father, he was going to "divorce her quietly", until the angel of the Lord explained to him what was happening. He didn't trash her name to neighborhood!

When my husband decided after a few years to divorce his now ex-wife, he didn't broadcast it. Folks in church were wondering where she was (me included) because she started attending another church. I and my friends and many other well meaning (and not so well meaning) members whould ask for her and tell him to say hello to her...finally after he became better friends with my sister, some mutual friends and myself, he explained to us privately that he was seeking a divorce. He didn't walk around saying, my wife did X, Y and Z, I am tired of this so I want a divorce.....he didn't trash her name...and even now he won't...

...Danny Shelton's behavior, in this situation, leaves a lot to be desired...

Danny Shelton ain't no Joseph. He proved this in BS, Michigan....

Is it safe to ask how many people here, and elsewhere, have first hand knowledge of this corruption at 3ABN?

You can ask.... but what of it? Whether it is one with (true) first-hand knowledge or twelve .... if you get the story "first hand" you get it "first hand" (per the legal definition/"horse's mouth" definition)......

Go head LT - gettin' down wid the "legal-ease"......

[Clay]

The just don't pretend part is judging another person. You call it observation. I call it judging.

and you would be wrong....

Judge
v. judged, judg·ing, judg·es
v. tr.

1. To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration: judge heights; judging character.
2.
1. Law. To hear and decide on in a court of law; try: judge a case.
2. Obsolete. To pass sentence on; condemn.
3. To act as one appointed to decide the winners of: judge an essay contest.
3. To determine or declare after consideration or deliberation.
4. Informal. To have as an opinion or assumption; suppose: I judge you're right.
5. Bible. To govern; rule. Used of an ancient Israelite leader.


v. intr.

1. To form an opinion or evaluation.
2. To act or decide as a judge.


n.

1. One who judges, especially:
1. One who makes estimates as to worth, quality, or fitness: a good judge of used cars; a poor judge of character.
2. Abbr. J. Law. A public official who hears and decides cases brought before a court of law.
3. Law. A bankruptcy referee.
4. One appointed to decide the winners of a contest or competition.
2. Bible.
1. A leader of the Israelites during a period of about 400 years between the death of Joshua and the accession of Saul.
2. Judges (used with a sing. verb) Abbr. Judg. or Jgs or Jg See table at Bible.

ob·ser·va·tion Audio pronunciation of "observation" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bzr-vshn)
n.

1.
1. The act or faculty of observing.
2. The fact of being observed.
2.
1. The act of noting and recording something, such as a phenomenon, with instruments.
2. The result or record of such notation: a meteorological observation.
3. A comment or remark. See Synonyms at comment.
4. An inference or a judgment that is acquired from or based on observing.

obser·vation·al adj.
obser·vation·al·ly adv.

Main Entry: ob·ser·va·tion
Pronunciation: "äb-s&r-'vA-sh&n, -z&r-
Function: noun
1 : the noting of a fact or occurrence (as in nature) often involving the measurement of some magnitude with suitable instruments <temperature observations>; also : a record so obtained
2 : close watch or examination (as to monitor or diagnose a condition) <postoperative observation> <psychiatric observation>

There is a difference.....



This post has been edited by Clay: Jul 6 2006, 03:28 PM

[Clay]

Daryl, please tell us why you have come to BSDA? I am not judging you but there must be a reason beyond plain curiosity. I guess that you have decided to be an observer.

it makes no difference, we are glad he has joined us and has quickly jumped into the fray.... hopefully he will stick around and find out that we do more than discuss 3abn....

[Daryl Fawcett]

OK. Enough of this.

Your observation or judgment is WRONG!!!!

I am interested in the facts, which I deem to be truth from a first hand witness.

I am here for the truth of the matter.

The first hand experiences I have read here are what I am looking for.

That is why I am here.

[PrincessDrRe]

It ain’t that deep. Call it what you want. We pass judgment on each other all the time in our everyday course of life. Nobody here has a heaven or hell to put someone in. Judge me all you want.

Judge not - least ye be judged.

So if you say that someone is "judgeing you" and they are not "judgeing you" by the law of GOD - would it then be safe to say that you not only have "judged them" by saying they "judged you" but you are also "lying on them" by stating that they "judged you"?



I'm jes saying.....

[Clay]

OK. Enough of this.

Your observation or judgment is WRONG!!!!

I am interested in the facts, which I deem to be truth from a first hand witness.

I am here for the truth of the matter.

The first hand experiences I have read here are what I am looking for.

That is why I am here.

fair enough.... there are plenty here....

[watchbird]

Daryl, please tell us why you have come to BSDA? I am not judging you but there must be a reason beyond plain curiosity. I guess that you have decided to be an observer.

Thanks, summertime, that is exactly the question that has been growing larger and larger in my mind. But if he wanted to come as an observer, why didn't he just come, observe, and walk away? We would never have needed to even know he was here. But he started out seemingly trying to short cut the "observer" process by asking challenging questions. And even when Johann comes on as a first hand witness, gives answers to some of his questions, and offers to give more if he is interested, Daryl makes no effort to engage him in conversation. Neither does he attempt to engage any of the other first hand witnesses in dialogue. Seems so strange. But then--perhaps he doesn't know how to dialogue. Not everyone does. kinda sad.

[Clay]

Thanks, summertime, that is exactly the question that has been growing larger and larger in my mind. But if he wanted to come as an observer, why didn't he just come, observe, and walk away? We would never have needed to even know he was here. But he started out seemingly trying to short cut the "observer" process by asking challenging questions. And even when Johann comes on as a first hand witness, gives answers to some of his questions, and offers to give more if he is interested, Daryl makes no effort to engage him in conversation. Neither does he attempt to engage any of the other first hand witnesses in dialogue. Seems so strange. But then--perhaps he doesn't know how to dialogue. Not everyone does. kinda sad.

don't talk past him, talk to him.... he is right here.... we have been in dialogue.... though we disagreed...

[awesumtenor]

Kay Kuzma holds an EdD (Doctor of Education) degree, not a PhD (Doctor of Philosophy) degree.

While true, it;'s irrelevant. Kay Kuzma has allowed herself to be marketed as the church's foremost family and marital therapist in the selling of her books, her various columns in church magazines and her inclusion in retreats and camp meetings where she conducts seminars on topics that fall under that aegis, which implies that she has the requisite education and experience to conduct 'therapy' to families and married couples. The implication where her name has come up in the SHelton v. Shelton saga is that her involvement was both personal and professional. Those here who are counselors and who are active currently in that field were quick to state that there was an obvious conflict of interest on a number of levels and as the foremost authority in the church on such issues, she should have known better.

Splitting hairs regarding what initials follow her name does not change any of the aforementioned.

In His service,
Mr. J

[Guest_statrei_*]

don't talk past him, talk to him.... he is right here....

You have been warned.