Latest On 3abn - Round 3, Kay Kuzma Response to L Shelton Story Options

[watchbird]

don't talk past him, talk to him.... he is right here.... we have been in dialogue.... though we disagreed...

IDTA .... no response .... I know ... if you call that "dialogue"... I noticed...enjoy.

[Daryl Fawcett]

I am coming to the conclusion that Black SDA isn't a very friendly place to be. So sad!!!!

[sister]

Daryl,

I have a question for you. At this point, what conclusions have you drawn from your observations of the 3ABN information?

Sister

[Clay]

I am coming to the conclusion that Black SDA isn't a very friendly place to be. So sad!!!!

and that conclusion would be wrong.... also.... you will be asked questions, you will be asked to support your position, and nothing is off limits... trust me Daryl when I say this... you have been treated with the utmost respect.... some have even interacted with you with kid gloves on.... perhaps you aren't use to this degree of honest dialogue.... only you can answer that question....

[Daryl Fawcett]

Sister,

Besides the third degree I am receiving here about all of this, I am still reading and reading and reading, however, what I have read leads me to believe that the leadership of 3ABN is of such that they need to be replaced somehow, which leads me to a question of my own.

3ABN has a board, a chairman of that board, and a president, therefore, doesn't 3ABN also have their own Constitution & Bylaws, as well as a constituency? And, if a constituency, who are the constituents?

This post has been edited by Daryl Fawcett: Jul 6 2006, 04:38 PM

[Clay]

Besides the third degree I am receiving here about all of this, I am still reading and reading and reading, however, what I have read leads me to believe that the leadership of 3ABN is of such that they need to be replaced somehow, which leads me to a question of my own.

3ABN has a board, a chairman of that board, and a president, therefore, doesn't 3ABN also have their own Constitution & Bylaws, as well as a constituency? And, if a constituency, who are the constituents?

good question... likewise do the constituents really care about what is happening? The board forget it.... as you read you will see that they rubber stamp whatever Mr. Shelton wants......

[Guest_statrei_*]

3ABN has a board, a chairman of that board, and a president, therefore, doesn't 3ABN also have their own Constitution & Bylaws, as well as a constituency? And, if a constituency, who are the constituents?

I guess they have Bylaws. Probably no Constitution. Whether what you suggest is possible depends on those Bylaws, I guess. If it were a public corporation the board could be replaced at a constituency meeting but I don't think 3ABN is of such. The board is appointed by the owner.

[Daryl Fawcett]

Darius,

I am a member of the ByLaws Committee of our Conference.

I am also on the ByLaws Committee of our Union.

I was also the Chairman of our Food Bank Board when we decided to make it into a Corporation. In the process, and with the help of a lawyer, we formulated the ByLaws.

I don't know what it is like in the USA, however, here in Canada, in the Province of New Brunswick, a valid and bonafide non-profit Corporation, such as this Food Bank, requires some viable form of a Constituency, which in the case of this Food Bank, are the members of the local church.

I can't see how it can be any different with an organization such as 3ABN that depends on tax deductible donations for its continued existence.

[awesumtenor]

I am coming to the conclusion that Black SDA isn't a very friendly place to be. So sad!!!!

If a man will have friends, he must first show himself friendly... there are many observers who would say that you have a ways to go to meet that particular mark in here... and thus have only reaped what you've sown...

We can try this again if you wish, starting with all cards face up on the table so there are no surprises...but I believe I warned you that your "do as I say, not as I do" thing would become problematic...

Try being upfront... I can respect your having an agenda... your retaining preconceived notions and the like... if you are upfront... the problem crept in when you came talking one thing and your actions suggesting something else entirely.

I believe you have finally noticed that such will not be regarded well. Too many have come here and found this forum friendly for you to come in and find it unfriendly and the problem be on the part of the forum...

In His service,
Mr. J

Darius,

I am a member of the ByLaws Committee of our Conference.

I am also on the ByLaws Committee of our Union.

I was also the Chairman of our Food Bank Board when we decided to make it into a Corporation. In the process, and with the help of a lawyer, we formulated the ByLaws.

I don't know what it is like in the USA, however, here in Canada, in the Province of New Brunswick, a valid and bonafide non-profit Corporation, such as this Food Bank, requires some viable form of a Constituency, which in the case of this Food Bank, are the members of the local church.

I can't see how it can be any different with an organization such as 3ABN that depends on tax deductible donations for its continued existence.

Seeing that by your own admission you are not familiar with non-profit law in the US, your not seeing how it could be different is not really material, n'est-ce pas?

Seeing that Darius has a Juris Doctor degree from a US school of law, is it not fair to say his knowledge of what is or is not required in the US by law would far outstrip your own?

In His service,
Mr. J

[Daryl Fawcett]

That being the case, Darius should be able to advise us of the requirements of an organization such as 3ABN in relation to its charitable and non-tax status.

[awesumtenor]

That being the case, Darius should be able to advise us of the requirements of an organization such as 3ABN in relation to its charitable and non-tax status.

you can find that out by googling 501c(3), which is the section of US Tax law that covers charitable and non-profit status...

Be mindful tho... this aint Canada and there is latitude for the latitude within the bounds of the law... which is why tax attorneys make good coin on this side of the 48th parallel.

In His service,
Mr. J

[watchbird]

. . . . I am still reading and reading and reading, however, what I have read leads me to believe that the leadership of 3ABN is of such that they need to be replaced somehow, which leads me to a question of my own.

3ABN has a board, a chairman of that board, and a president, therefore, doesn't 3ABN also have their own Constitution & Bylaws, as well as a constituency? And, if a constituency, who are the constituents?

As you read even more you will find that what needs replacing applies not only to the president, but to the chairman of the board, most of the top directors of 3ABN, many of whom are Pentecostal rather than Adventist, and a goodly share of the board members as well. You will also find that although the terms used seem to indicate that the board has "ownership" of 3ABN, that in fact it is privately held by Danny and whatever family members that he happens to be on speaking terms with at the moment.

As to the constituents, they would normally be the contributors to the station. However, since Danny assumes the role of prophet and god to his followers, those who are his followers are his followers and are convinced that he can do no wrong. So only slowly over the last two years has this follower base had any exposure to any information about the things that "need changing".

The problems are complicated by the US legal protections surrounding any church organization. So legally there is not even the same recourse as there would be to a purely secular business. But to learn these things you will need to move beyond what you call "first person witnesses". For those who have have first person knowlege of these things are holding that information until such a time as it may be called for in a court of law. In the meantime there are researchers who have learned a great deal, the most prominent one being Fran, whom you know from both CA and BSDA. From her research she is well equipped to help answer the financial or organizational questions you have. Though again, it would be best if you read as much of her material as possible before you brought your questions, since it is quite probable she has already answered many of them in one of her previous posts.

To get you started in that direction, since this is an area you have mentioned, I will point you to the BSDA thread "Latest On 3abn - Round 3, Kay Kuzma Response to L Shelton Story". Specifically menu page 9, post #122 where Fran gives the url for the "IL Tax Lawsuit vs. 3ABN" document. This will give you much information on the legal organization of 3ABN. Once you have finished reading it you will be able to discuss with Fran the implications of some of it that you may not quite understand.

Don't give up. Keep slogging away. You'll get there.

[Daryl Fawcett]

The following is taken from the State of Illinois:


BUSINESS ORGANIZATIONS
(805 ILCS 105/) General Not For Profit Corporation Act of 1986.


(805 ILCS 105/Art. 7 heading)
ARTICLE 7. MEMBERS


(805 ILCS 105/107.03) (from Ch. 32, par. 107.03)
Sec. 107.03. Members.
(a) A corporation may have one or more classes of members or may have no members.

This means that 3ABN can choose not to have any members.

If there are not any members, then who chooses the Board of Directors, its Officers, etc.???

The reading and research continues.

[calvin]

The following is taken from the State of Illinois:
BUSINESS ORGANIZATIONS
(805 ILCS 105/) General Not For Profit Corporation Act of 1986.
(805 ILCS 105/Art. 7 heading)
ARTICLE 7. MEMBERS
(805 ILCS 105/107.03) (from Ch. 32, par. 107.03)
Sec. 107.03. Members.
(a) A corporation may have one or more classes of members or may have no members.

This means that 3ABN can choose not to have any members.

If there are not any members, then who chooses the Board of Directors, its Officers, etc.???

The reading and research continues.

I am currently a member of several non-profit boards:
Goodwill Industries of Omaha
Omaha Chamber of Commerce
Great Plains Minority Business Development Council (Chairmen and Chairperson of the Nominating Committee).

Typically in secular/non-church non-profits there is no constituent. Board members are elected by whatever is stated in the by-laws. Usually a nominating committee from the board elects new board members that are approved by the board, sometimes approval by all the members of the org.

[sonshineonme]

Just wondering how many reliable witnesses there are that knows what's really going on at 3ABN. The more witnesses the better.

Lets see, how many employees (counting family of course) has 3abn had over the past 20 years....hmmm.....