Reaping The Whirl Wind, IRS Criminal Investigation of 3ABN Options

[Pickle]

...an exact cost to the house Danny is going to build when it is only in the beginning stages and Danny has made no decisions about how much he will do himself or what he will contract out. So...how could he or anyone else know what the cost will be???

I certainly can't prove every point that Gailon made, but I can address this one:

So as you can see, Danny is the one who told Gailon, via his building permit, that he thought his house would cost $165,000. Was Danny telling the truth, or was he lying?

Notice that Danny said he was the property owner, even though he wasn't. Why would Danny claim to own the property when he didn't?

[Pickle]

Programs, ministry, expansion and yes, a new office for Elder Gilley. And as unbelievable as it sounds, he will have his own bathroom!!!! Wow what luxury!!!

I can address this one too. Remember how Jim Gilley asked viewers for $3 million dollars in November and December? If they are that hard up for money, why build a new addition?

1,330 sq. ft. with 2 bathrooms for $45,000, which would be 1.5% of the $3 million dollars Gilley asked for.

Notice how Gilley's office would have its own private bathroom, which would save him from having to walk to the closest next room.

I'm not saying that having his own private bathroom is bad. I'm just pointing out the facts.

Notice also how Danny's office is right there. Since in the Seventh-day Adventist Church leaders in church or lay ministries generally lose their positions when caught in serious misdoings, why isn't Gilley taking over Danny's office? Why? Has 3ABN utterly abandoned the conservative principles it's supposed to uphold?

[Richard Sherwin]

Those defending 3abn offer little in the way of evidence to back them up. They claim lies are being told but can't back it up, not even with 1st hand testimonies. One major difference I see with the two sides is that those who are accusing Danny and 3abn are willing to put their identities on the line, that gives them credibility. It enforces the perception of truthfulness and openness, something the is severely lacking with the defenders.

Maybe Pickle and Joy are not always right on with their techniques but to say they are not on Gods business is very much a judgmental statement. Yes 3abn can be saved, and even if by questionable dealings of the lawyers they win the lawsuit it might very well survive and prosper, but how much more could it do it it were to do the right thing?

Appletree, Appletree......

"where they are now"......where might that be??.....do you mean being sued by prideful, arrogant people........just asking?

Shouldn't we all be busy in God's business, listening to His call? I am sure they (Joy & Pickle) were doing just that. I believe Joy's web site is called save3abn. What is more important than saving a ministry if it can be saved.

Maybe at this date some of us are wondering?

[Pickle]

Those defending 3abn offer little in the way of evidence to back them up. They claim lies are being told but can't back it up, not even with 1st hand testimonies. One major difference I see with the two sides is that those who are accusing Danny and 3abn are willing to put their identities on the line, that gives them credibility. It enforces the perception of truthfulness and openness, something the is severely lacking with the defenders.

Maybe Pickle and Joy are not always right on with their techniques but to say they are not on Gods business is very much a judgmental statement. Yes 3abn can be saved, and even if by questionable dealings of the lawyers they win the lawsuit it might very well survive and prosper, but how much more could it do it it were to do the right thing?

Thank you for your kind words, Richard.

[Pickle]

I'd like to address one other topic. Here we have Danny who needs to go from 3ABN, and Jim Gilley came to replace him. So Gilley buys Danny's house for $295,000, one fellow telling me that that figure was way too low. And Gilley lets Danny hold the mortgage for $220,000.

Is that wise? Does that not create a conflict of interest, potentially jeopardizing one's objectivity when dealing with someone who needs to go? If this kind of thing becomes a habit, at what point do such things disqualify one from holding such an office?

Now having posed such questions, I want to come to Gilley's defense. Under the definitions section of the mortgage, which spells out no payment terms, under "Note" it says that the mortgage was to mature on November 16, just one month after it was executed.

So if I had to guess, I'd say that this was supposed to be a temporary thing, maybe until Gilley's house sells.

Has it sold yet? A friend sent me two links. Dallas Central Appraisal District lists Jim as owning a house built in 2005 at 6315 Velasco Ave, which supposedly has a market value of $596,700. Estimated property taxes, after homestead and over 65 exemptions, are $11,145.73.

Melissa Maroney and Maureen Skeeters are selling a house at 6315 Velasco Ave, asking $619,000, so it appears that the Gilley home is still for sale. I'm sure they would appreciate it if we all prayed that it would sell soon, as property taxes like that are probably not easy for a retiring minister to pay.

It really looks like a nice home.

For comparison to the rest of the community there, that Dallas Central Appraisal District page, which says that Gilley's home is in the Dallas ISD school district, has a link to a page on Average House Values. Click the values for 2007 and you will find that the average market value for homes in that school district is $172,518.

This post has been edited by Pickle: Dec 2 2007, 05:13 PM

[Pickle]

For some reason it wouldn't let me post all the pictures, so here are the rest:

[Snoopy]

Thanks for the invite Rose....I would like to address several things.

First the comments here that it was a matter of time???? Of course, with the Bonnie's and Fran's and Gailons and Pickles of the world phoning in accusations, The IRS will take notice eventually. Nothing in 3abn's records brought them in, people did.

Also, as usual with Joy's MO, there was much faulty information in his "breaking news." Jerry Page being chairman...wrong...Walt stepping down...wrong....Torkelson on the board...wrong....rumors up and down the halls of 3abn that the board members were trying to work out a deal with the Irs....wrong....Danny had money here and there hid from the board...wrong....an exact cost to the house Danny is going to build when it is only in the beginning stages and Danny has made no decisions about how much he will do himself or what he will contract out. So...how could he or anyone else know what the cost will be???.....Danny hiding money from Linda while they were together....wrong...Danny selling his house to Jim Gilley to get rid of his assets??? ..Wrong....If he were doing it for that reason, why would he immediatly start building another house?????.....Common sense people.....
Really I could go on and on with the errors, lies, twisted truth or whatever you want to call them but, why should I? What I have listed should be enough to show the same old pattern.

Rose ask what is really going on at 3abn. Programs, ministry, expansion and yes, a new office for Elder Gilley. And as unbelievable as it sounds, he will have his own bathroom!!!! Wow what luxury!!!
It continues to be, business as usual, God's business. Pickle and Joy could take a lesson....if they would have been busy in God's business instead of their own prideful and arrogant endeavors, they wouldn't be where they are now.

Interesting, appletree. Maybe you could help me out here. If Danny is still a full-time employee of 3ABN, AND DRAWING A PAYCHECK, how/when will he have time to be building a house?

[Pickle]

Interesting, appletree. Maybe you could help me out here. If Danny is still a full-time employee of 3ABN, AND DRAWING A PAYCHECK, how/when will he have time to be building a house?

Snoopy, 3ABN wouldn't be paying Danny to build his own house on their land, for that could get them in more trouble, right?

[Ian]

For some reason it wouldn't let me post all the pictures, so here are the rest:

And? What is the point here?

Most know Gilley had a income outside his ministry.

It's a nice house.

So what!?!

[Snoopy]

Snoopy, 3ABN wouldn't be paying Danny to build his own house on their land, for that could get them in more trouble, right?

Well, you know, he HAS done a lot of good... ...maybe this is another addition to his retirement fund that other employees are not entitled to...

It would be real interesting to know who exactly is doing this building. Aren't there some construction types on the 3ABN payroll? Wonder if their services have been limited to that HQ addition? I'll bet appletree knows!!!

For not knowing how much work he will do himself and how much will contracted out....there seems to be quite a bit of progress already, if it is poured and framed... I wonder when exactly DS will know what/how he will proceed?? I'll bet appletree knows that, too.... Building a house on land that is not yours does present some interesting income tax implications. I would expect that the accounting department will be extra busy in January trying to get all this potential private inurement onto the right W-2s and 1099s!!!!!!!

[runner4him]

WOW! I just read the description of this awesome and beautiful home.......I am pasting it here for anyone interested in making a move to Texas.

J GREGORY HOME BARELY LIVED IN BEAUTIFUL HOME WITH,GORGEOUS HARDWOODS DOWNSTAIRS AND UPSTAIRS HALLWAY,GRANITE C-TOPS KITCHEN AND MOST BATH AREAS,STAINLESS STEELE APPL, JENN-AIR APPL,6 TOP GAS BURNER,ISLAND,AN ABUNDANCE OF CUSTOM CABINETS AND GOOD SIZE WALK-IN PANTRY,5TH BEDROOM COULD BE USED AS A GAMEROOM OR MEDIA ROOM,TILE ROOF,COVERED PATIO WITH FIREPLACE,WET BAR AND MUCH MORE THIS SHOWS BEAUTIFUL!

I have a thought.....we have been exchanging posts lately about the underpaid pastors but looking at this, I am wondering about changing careers and signing up for a pastorship. This is amazing and maybe Pastor Gilley could give some counsel to the struggling pastors out there who are having a hard time. Now I understand why he only received $1.00 for services at one time - at least that is what I remember. (Sorry if I have that wrong). I am not trying to criticize Pastor Gilley's success or the size and elegance of his home.

Seriously we do need some advice on how to prosper while spreading the Gospel so we have more to share and more for missions.

I'd like to address one other topic. Here we have Danny who needs to go from 3ABN, and Jim Gilley came to replace him. So Gilley buys Danny's house for $295,000, one fellow telling me that that figure was way too low. And Gilley lets Danny hold the mortgage for $220,000.

Is that wise? Does that not create a conflict of interest, potentially jeopardizing one's objectivity when dealing with someone who needs to go? If this kind of thing becomes a habit, at what point do such things disqualify one from holding such an office?

Now having posed such questions, I want to come to Gilley's defense. Under the definitions section of the mortgage, which spells out no payment terms, under "Note" it says that the mortgage was to mature on November 16, just one month after it was executed.

So if I had to guess, I'd say that this was supposed to be a temporary thing, maybe until Gilley's house sells.

Has it sold yet? A friend sent me two links. Dallas Central Appraisal District lists Jim as owning a house built in 2005 at 6315 Velasco Ave, which supposedly has a market value of $596,700. Estimated property taxes, after homestead and over 65 exemptions, are $11,145.73.

Melissa Maroney and Maureen Skeeters are selling a house at 6315 Velasco Ave, asking $619,000, so it appears that the Gilley home is still for sale. I'm sure they would appreciate it if we all prayed that it would sell soon, as property taxes like that are probably not easy for a retiring minister to pay.

It really looks like a nice home.

For comparison to the rest of the community there, that Dallas Central Appraisal District page, which says that Gilley's home is in the Dallas ISD school district, has a link to a page on Average House Values. Click the values for 2007 and you will find that the average market value for homes in that school district is $172,518.

[GRAT]

And? What is the point here?

Most know Gilley had a income outside his ministry.

It's a nice house.

So what!?!

Must have been some income. I guess I'm not with most. Doing what? While employed and paid by the church? If ministers are on 24/7 when do they have time to run a business? During their 6 weeks vacation a year?

[Johann]

Although I do not have all the sources Gailon Arthur has, I have been able to verify that some of the most damaging issues for 3ABN mentioned in his report are true.

Appletree and others are trying to make us think that because he questions some aspects of it the report is not true. If 3ABN would be fair and place all the cards on the table we might be able to get somewhere, but due to these circumstances it is impossible to divulge everything here.

[Richard Sherwin]

Really there is no problem with Jim making money, even lots of it on a pastors salary. If he inherited a bit of money at one time and invested it wisely, maybe stashed a bit of his pay in an interest bearing account he might easily afford that house in his later years. Maybe his wife had a high paying job, who knows.

Pastors are on 24/7 but no one expects them to work 24/7. They have time for family, house keeping, financial planning etc. I don't think we should expect our pastors to work more than a 40 hour week, though many do.

[Richard Sherwin]

Appletree can say whatever he wants but he has little credibility because he's never shown us who he is. I'm not fishing for names but just saying that any of us that are on here anonymously can say what ever we wish but without showing concrete evidence or proving we have inside info our words ring somewhat hollow.

Although I do not have all the sources Gailon Arthur has, I have been able to verify that some of the most damaging issues for 3ABN mentioned in his report are true.

Appletree and others are trying to make us think that because he questions some aspects of it the report is not true. If 3ABN would be fair and place all the cards on the table we might be able to get somewhere, but due to these circumstances it is impossible to divulge everything here.