Danny Shelton/3abn Seeks Protective Order, ... Again Options

[Fran]

You are incorrect.

1) They want to totally put off limits all donation information, not just prohibit it from being revealed to the public, which would prevent us from knowing how much they received in total donations. The problem is that they have been calling gross sales revenue and shipping charges "donations," and thus one can't tell how much they really took in.

If we can't have access to donation information, we can't verify what their donations were, and why donors stopped giving. That kind of prohibition guts their case.

2) You are almost correct. The problem is that they want to put off limits even stuff that Illinois law requires to be open to public inspection, and they don't limit their proposed order to just the type of stuff that might benefit a competitor.

You are exactly right, Bob.

I am one of those that made a purchace and got a tax deductable donation receipt. I still have that receipt. However, I was smart enough to not deduct it from my taxes!

[Ozzie]

Seraphim,

You are answering a post where I am citing references and dealing with the subject and the questions asked of me which have to do with 3ABN and the lawsuit, but you aren't discussing that.

But since you are following me from thread to thread repeating yourself...

1. I am not a house I am a individual. My name is not CinDonIanAl, it is Ian, and I have already as nicely as possible asked you to address me by my login name only.

Can you explain Ian, in view of what you have written here, why you refer to Bob Pickle as 'Mr Pickle'? If my memory serves me correctly, some time back, Bob asked that he be addressed as 'Bob' - not 'Robert' or 'Mr Pickle'!

Seems like once again, there's one rule that applies to Danny and his cohorts and another rule applies to everyone else!

[fallible humanbe...]

Can you explain Ian, in view of what you have written here, why you refer to Bob Pickle as 'Mr Pickle'? If my memory serves me correctly, some time back, Bob asked that he be addressed as 'Bob' - not 'Robert' or 'Mr Pickle'!

Seems like once again, there's one rule that applies to Danny and his cohorts and another rule applies to everyone else! : wacko :

Oz,

Get your facts straight, the issue was with me referring to "Mr. Pickle" as "Robert". He came here and took umbrage at being called by his given name and started to demand that he be called "Bob" and went on about how he goes by "Bob" . . . when in fact he signed everything in the current case as "Robert" until he started to represent himself pro se . . . soon after his whining here when he began to represent himself he started to sign all his pro se documentation as "Bob" . . . there was never an issue in regards to referring to him as "Mr. Pickle" . . . which I will continue to refer to him as since I was threatened with expulsion if I continued to refer to him as "Robert".

- FHB

[calvin]

Bob, you and Gailon Joy are not represented by counsel?

Correct.

Do you seriously believe you can win this case? How can you reasonably expect to defend yourself? Mercy man! I mean you guys when out of your way to go after 3abn with the save3abn website. Didn't you think they would probably come after you?

I don't think Danny has much to be concerned about. You guys are sinking fast from where I see it. Flying blind by the seat of your pants with no counsel, up against a well financed plaintiff with an army of attorneys, partner in bankruptcy and the website down. Does not look very promising.

[Ozzie]

Oz,

Get your facts straight, the issue was with me referring to "Mr. Pickle" as "Robert". He came here and took umbrage at being called by his given name and started to demand that he be called "Bob" and went on about how he goes by "Bob" . . . when in fact he signed everything in the current case as "Robert" until he started to represent himself pro se . . . soon after his whining here when he began to represent himself he started to sign all his pro se documentation as "Bob" . . . there was never an issue in regards to referring to him as "Mr. Pickle" . . . which I will continue to refer to him as since I was threatened with expulsion if I continued to refer to him as "Robert".

- FHB

OOoooo! I can feel the venom/poison behind that remark all the way over here. Not a very happy or polite person I feel, are you FHB?.

Yes. As I said, it was one of Danny's cohorts who carried on like a pork chop, so I was not far off the mark! My husband gets quite upset if anyone calls him other than 'Bob' too, so I can quite understand Bob Pickle asking not to be called other than 'Bob'. Doesn't alter the way that Danny's gang expects one set of standards for themselves, and another set for everyne else.

[princessdi]

You are correct Ozzie, however you ahd the wrong ID. It was FHB who was requested not to refer to Bob as Robert. However, what this group does not realize is that everyone knows that whatever and however they refer to Bob, it is meant in the utmost disrespect. Which is just palin unChristlike further lessening the crediblity of their "side". How Bob signs his court papers has nothing to do with anything, since, FHB is not the plaintiff in the case. I am not understanding anyone's need to be andry for Danny and disrespecting his perceived enemies. So dont' feel badly that you got it slightly wrong, Ozzie, this is something no logical(( and defintiely not the christian mind) mind can or should understand

Can you explain Ian, in view of what you have written here, why you refer to Bob Pickle as 'Mr Pickle'? If my memory serves me correctly, some time back, Bob asked that he be addressed as 'Bob' - not 'Robert' or 'Mr Pickle'!

Seems like once again, there's one rule that applies to Danny and his cohorts and another rule applies to everyone else!

Oz,

Get your facts straight, the issue was with me referring to "Mr. Pickle" as "Robert". He came here and took umbrage at being called by his given name and started to demand that he be called "Bob" and went on about how he goes by "Bob" . . . when in fact he signed everything in the current case as "Robert" until he started to represent himself pro se . . . soon after his whining here when he began to represent himself he started to sign all his pro se documentation as "Bob" . . . there was never an issue in regards to referring to him as "Mr. Pickle" . . . which I will continue to refer to him as since I was threatened with expulsion if I continued to refer to him as "Robert".

- FHB

[jakann]

Please explain how this clause works to those of us who never lived in Cuba or North Korea.

Heh heh heh. Now that's funny.

[jakann]

While we are on the grammar thing, something that drives me nuts is the misuse of a and an. When a word starting with a vowel is used such as "opinion" you use "an opinion" not "a opinion". Maybe not a big deal but when we use correct grammar we sound more intelligent. I know I'll go hide now.

There is an exception to the rule of using "an" before words that start with vowels only. I.e. "an herb".

[jakann]

Do you seriously believe you can win this case? How can you reasonably expect to defend yourself? Mercy man! I mean you guys when out of your way to go after 3abn with the save3abn website. Didn't you think they would probably come after you?

I don't think Danny has much to be concerned about. You guys are sinking fast from where I see it. Flying blind by the seat of your pants with no counsel, up against a well financed plaintiff with an army of attorneys, partner in bankruptcy and the website down. Does not look very promising.

Calvin,
I'm more of the opinion that this is, in actuality, a spiritual battle and that Messrs. Shelton, Joy, and Pickle are soldiers operating under the direction of their respective generals. If God can bring down a pagan nation in one night, (Babylon) He is well able to deal with 3ABN and its army of attorneys or the works of Pickle and Joy.
"...it may be that the LORD will work for us: for there is no restraint to the LORD to save by many or by few." 1 Sam. 14:6

Furthermore, re Joy and Pickle:
And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. Acts 5:38,39

I'd be somewhat interested to know if and how the Lord is working in all this. Food for thought.

[Panama_Pete]

Do you seriously believe you can win this case? How can you reasonably expect to defend yourself? Mercy man! I mean you guys when out of your way to go after 3abn with the save3abn website. Didn't you think they would probably come after you?

I don't think Danny has much to be concerned about. You guys are sinking fast from where I see it. Flying blind by the seat of your pants with no counsel, up against a well financed plaintiff with an army of attorneys, partner in bankruptcy and the website down. Does not look very promising.

As Dona might say, "I see it exactly the same way, Calvin." And I'm truly indebted to Dona for that thought.

I do agree with Calvin about the legal counsel. Counsel would be helpful even it it were pro bono legal counsel that could help you with your back-and-forth communication. The different ones -- here and there -- seem to be using your own correspondence to them in an effort to "sink" you. Cases are often lost on technicality.

Now some want your correspondence by U.S. mail only? No e-mail? Is that so they can put the postal inspectors upon your tail if you make a comment by U.S. Mail that can be twisted to mean whatever? I wonder.

I recall one woman quoting John Donne: It was labeled as a threat because it contains the words "For whom the bell tolls, It tolls for thee."

For Whom the Bell Tolls
by John Donne

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.

You may encounter one or two pen pals in various places who enjoy thinking this way. However, do remember the part of the poem that says, "No man is an island, Entire of itself."

Google the words "pro bono" and put out a few feelers for pro bono work, if necessary. Other groups, such as the Trinity Foundation, and others, might know of those doing pro bono work, if you were to ask. There may be others here who may also be able to put out a few feelers, too.

Matthew 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Jan 6 2008, 01:20 AM

[appletree]

OOoooo! I can feel the venom/poison behind that remark all the way over here. Not a very happy or polite person I feel, are you FHB?.

Yes. As I said, it was one of Danny's cohorts who carried on like a pork chop, so I was not far off the mark! My husband gets quite upset if anyone calls him other than 'Bob' too, so I can quite understand Bob Pickle asking not to be called other than 'Bob'. Doesn't alter the way that Danny's gang expects one set of standards for themselves, and another set for everyne else.

I take issue with you and others who refer to anyone who supports Danny and 3abn as his "cohorts." Or referring to Danny and his cohorts. Do you honestly think that Danny with his responsibilities at 3abn, almost single handedly building a house and trying to keep on top of his heart problems is reading bsda and organizing people to post in his behalf? If you believe that I've got some ocean front property in Arizona.....I guess we should assume then, that you and others on the "other side" are strictly Linda's "cohorts" and are being paid to post for her. Another ridiculous allegation from your side. I for one have never been told by Danny or anyone else at 3abn to post here, much less, what to say. I believe the same is true for FHB and others here that defend 3abn.

Di, let me include you in this also rather than make another post directly to you. With all your let's be christian to each other you have been guilty time and again of making the same kind of claims as made by ozzie here. I am here of my own accord, my own free will and I post either my opinion or what I know to be fact. I am not told by anyone to do this so please stop with the accusations. You are wrong.

[Observer]

4. Confidential information shall not at any time consist of any information which has at any time been: (a) produced, disclosed or made available to the public or otherwise available for public access; and/or ( disclosed in connection with any governmental public filing and which documents or information could not reasonably be assumed to be, or have been intended to be, kept confidential...

Yes, the above is stated on page 2, paragraph 4, of the motion for a protective order. However, this does not relieve people of concern in regard to what the motion requests, The uncited portion of the motion for a protective order, paragraph 4 further states:

Documents produced to the Federal Communications Commission in connection with the sale, purchase or licensing of radio or television transmission facilities or operations or documents produced to the Department of Justice in connection with any investigation or compliance matter are not documents disclosed in connectin with a governmental public filing or otherwise deemed to have been made available to the public.

In my thinking the above is clearly of concern. It has been claimed that that the IRS is conducting a criminal investigation of 3-ABN. [NOTE: I do not make any claim in regard to this matter.] The above citation clearly prevents any comments from being made by people who might have some knowwledge to share with the public. So, if a criminal prosecution were to take place [NOTE: I do not suggest that such will take place.] peopel who testified, or otherwise provided documents revelant to that prosecution would be prevented from disclosing that information to the public.

In such a situation (prosecution) we could have a public trial, media reporting of the case, and people with silgnificant information about the trial prevented from commenting about it.

[NOTE: This could also, while not explicitly stated, prevent the disclosure of documents provided in relation to a civil investigation by the IRS.]

As I consider this I am reminded of the book TRUTH DECAY that the SDA philalntropist, Albert C. Koppel wrote many years ago. It has now been republished in 2007. In his book he criticizes the SDA church for a lack of oppeness tranpanency and accountability in regard to the gifts that people give to it. Without comment on the book, it is these same issues that are associated with 3-ABN which are of concern, rightly or wrongly, to many people.

This post has been edited by Observer: Jan 6 2008, 05:09 AM

[Observer]

The Motion for Protections concern private and confidential information ONLY.That is what Mrs. Steenson is talking about in her affidavit in support of that motion.. Not everything filed with the government is available to the public.

Mollie Steenson's affidavit is of interest. It is clearly understandable why she and 3-ABN would want to protect the public disclosure of information in regard to the gifts that people have gliven to 3-ABN. But this does raise issues.

The first issue, in my mind, is the lawsuit that 3-ABN has filed against GAJ and Bob Pickle. That lawsuit claims that Bob and GAJ have engaged in activities that have caused gifts to 3-ABN to decrease. As that is part of the litigation, Bob and GAJ must be allowed to rebut and defend against this alligation. As the charge has been make in apublic venue they must be allowed to rebut and defend in a public venue.

It also raises issues in regard to oppeness, tranparancy and accountability from an organizaton that solicits donations from the public. Honest people may disagree on aspects of this. Yet, in my mind, the first issue that I have raised is crucial.

This post has been edited by Observer: Jan 6 2008, 05:23 AM

[Observer]

Do you seriously believe you can win this case? How can you reasonably expect to defend yourself? Mercy man! I mean you guys when out of your way to go after 3abn with the save3abn website. Didn't you think they would probably come after you?

I don't think Danny has much to be concerned about. You guys are sinking fast from where I see it. Flying blind by the seat of your pants with no counsel, up against a well financed plaintiff with an army of attorneys, partner in bankruptcy and the website down. Does not look very promising.

The above is the reasonable reaction to the news that Bob and GALJ are representing themselves "pro se." I do not argue tha point. However, follow the case. You will note that GAJ has scored major points against a full team of experienced lawyers. I will suggest that it is astounding what has already been acompllished.

The litigation is not yet over. I expect both sides to win some and to lose some. It remains to be seen which side will prevail, and to what extent. Bob and GAJ are not down and out even if they are "pro se."

This post has been edited by Observer: Jan 6 2008, 06:37 AM

[Eduard]

Maybe we could start by understanding the difference between

!.)not revealing private information to the public such as private donor information (names addresses , phone numbers...and personal finances etc, because individuals have privacy rights. AND

2.not revealing business information from the lawsuit to competitors who would not normally have access to that information, and who could or would use it for business and commercial purposes to their advantage and to 3ABN's detriment?

Other then that I have nothing to say.

Ian,

WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?
WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?
WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?
WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?

Eduard