Regarding Allegations Of Sexual Molestation By D S, What has been the response of the Adventist Church? Options

[Artiste]

Forget what the GC should do! Lock up the dirty old man behind bars! Throw away the key!!!

[Clay]

I suspect none would disagree with your main points Artiste. I believe it has been determined ad infinitum that that the only church with any authority to take any action on this is located on the 3abn compound. I would assume they have been made aware of this allegation and have declined to act on it.

If that is in fact the case, the question is why we find it necessary to resurrect this nastiness every few months. I don't know for certain but it appears to be a reaction to a lack of new topics or developments to hash over.

-bear

agreed Bear.... that is my point....

[Artiste]

...
If that is in fact the case, the question is why we find it necessary to resurrect this nastiness every few months. I don't know for certain but it appears to be a reaction to a lack of new topics or developments to hash over.

-bear

I feel that the lack is not of new topics and developments, of which there are plenty, even though they may not be brought up on this board, but it is a lack of accountability of the Seventh-day Adventist church leadership.

The issue of Danny Shelton's mistreatment of Alyssa is not merely a local church or civil problem. Danny Shelton, formerly the president of 3ABN and currently very much in evidence at the ministry as Founder, appears to all intents and purposes to be in the good graces of the Seventh-day Adventist Church leadership.

The church has not publicly indicated otherwise.

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[Clay]

I feel that the lack is not of new topics and developments, of which there are plenty, even though they may not be brought up on this board, but it is a lack of accountability of the Seventh-day Adventist church leadership.

The issue of Danny Shelton's mistreatment of Alyssa is not merely a local church or civil problem. Danny Shelton, formerly the president of 3ABN and currently very much in evidence at the ministry as Founder, appears to all intents and purposes to be in the good graces of the Seventh-day Adventist Church leadership.

The church has not publicly indicated otherwise.

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plenty? share a few.....

If this a problem then those who are affected need to get together like those victims of the Catholic church did and sue... They took the leadership of the Catholic church to court, and won.... so are you telling me that this incident is similar to what happened in the catholic church? If so, then the action that needs to be taken is to organize and sue, not rehash this particular incident on a discussion board..... that's how I see it....

[PeacefulBe]

The church cannot investigate something that needs to be handled by the police. As Den pointed out, there were no charges filed, so it is reduced to a he said/she said incident. What really is the church expected to do? At some point police would have to get involved, that has not happened, and when the info was sent to various church leaders they should have advised her to file charges...

This is an important element in this situation, IMO. And, how do we know some church officials didn't advise her to file charges? That she hasn't is an indication that she does not want to take that course. As sad as that may be it is her choice to make and her consequences to face.

I am quite surprised some would advocate church discipline for charges that have not been duly brought before the authorities. Would we like to revisit those times when a church had the opinion they had the right to do so?

Apparently there are at least two here who are certain of the "dirty old man's" guilt in this instance and would like to see him behind bars for life. In a he said/she said situation, which is still what this is, I find that quite shocking.

If you want to make a difference, to wake up the snoring saints, contact Linda by email and make your suggestions that she urge her daughter to press charges. Then, continue to let her decide whether or not to do so.

[YogusBearus]

I feel that the lack is not of new topics and developments, of which there are plenty, even though they may not be brought up on this board, but it is a lack of accountability of the Seventh-day Adventist church leadership.

The issue of Danny Shelton's mistreatment of Alyssa is not merely a local church or civil problem. Danny Shelton, formerly the president of 3ABN and currently very much in evidence at the ministry as Founder, appears to all intents and purposes to be in the good graces of the Seventh-day Adventist Church leadership.

The church has not publicly indicated otherwise.

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I believe the concensus is that:

• The GC does not have the authority or mechanism to discipline Mr. Shelton. That type of action would fall to his local church.
• His local church has declined to act on the allegation.
• The alleged victim has not pressed civil or criminal charges.

Even if the GC had some authority or power to exercise in this situation, I don't see that happening for the following reasons:

• The GC is very anxious to take control of 3ABN diretly or indirectly through their proxies on the 3ABN board. They are unlikely to do anything to "rock the boat" during this transition period.
• The "indiependent ministry" types who are not anxious for the GC to take control are also not willing to do anything to further weaken 3ABN in the eyes of the church members.
• The root of this whole mess unfortunately goes back to Money and Power. Unless dealing with this allegation becomes somehow advantageous to any of the players quest of Money and Power, it just isn't going to be dealt with.

I truly hate to be this cynical but that's unfortunately my take. But what do I know…

-bear

[Johann]

At some point police would have to get involved, that has not happened, and when the info was sent to various church leaders they should have advised her to file charges...

They have never given such advise. So they are sleeping saints. Any stir needed?

Clay, you are here for a purpose. You challenge me into a productive snowball fight in words. Keep it going!

[Artiste]

I believe the concensus is that:

• The GC does not have the authority or mechanism to discipline Mr. Shelton. That type of action would fall to his local church.
• His local church has declined to act on the allegation.
• The alleged victim has not pressed civil or criminal charges.

Even if the GC had some authority or power to exercise in this situation, I don't see that happening for the following reasons:

• The GC is very anxious to take control of 3ABN diretly or indirectly through their proxies on the 3ABN board. They are unlikely to do anything to "rock the boat" during this transition period.
• The "indiependent ministry" types who are not anxious for the GC to take control are also not willing to do anything to further weaken 3ABN in the eyes of the church members.
• The root of this whole mess unfortunately goes back to Money and Power. Unless dealing with this allegation becomes somehow advantageous to any of the players quest of Money and Power, it just isn't going to be dealt with.

I truly hate to be this cynical but that's unfortunately my take. But what do I know…

-bear

Thank you, YogusBearus, for that clear and succinct evaluation of the matter. I agree with you.


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This post has been edited by Artiste: Jan 2 2008, 02:34 PM

[Artiste]

If this a problem then those who are affected need to get together like those victims of the Catholic church did and sue... They took the leadership of the Catholic church to court, and won.... so are you telling me that this incident is similar to what happened in the catholic church? If so, then the action that needs to be taken is to organize and sue, not rehash this particular incident on a discussion board..... that's how I see it....

The point of this thread was not particularly to rehash a certain incident but to bring up to date the Adventist church leadership's response or non-response to the 3ABN problems--see the topic name at the top.

Danny Shelton's mistreatment of Alyssa is a prime example of a non-response of the church to a matter clearly and unequivocably brought to their attention. Danny Shelton continues to this day as "Founder" and influential member of the 3ABN leadership as evidenced by Jim Gilley's January 2008 editorial in 3ABN World.

The Seventh-day Adventist Church has not publicly to this date responded to any of the 3ABN problems.

BlackSDA indicates on its front page that it was established for a range of people interested in the Black Seventh-day Adventist experience. The 3ABN forum has extended that focus to the discussion of 3ABN issues which has naturally brought to light a number of unpleasant incidences. If that were not true, there would not be any 3ABN issues.

Johann made an important point in another thread that problems needed to be rehashed over and over before changes in policy came about.

I believe that the current discussion on BlackSDA's 3ABN forum is filling that need.

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[calvin]

Regardless of the prompt procedure for reporting a sexual assault in the Adventist church, GC can act on anything if they choose too. They are not stupid, they are concerned with protecting the image of the church as they should be, not wanting the church to be publicly embarrassed, threaten with financial disaster, etc. The problem as I see it…and not just this incident but the whole 3abn mess is that there has not been enough pressure put on GC to act. There is no outcry from Adventist members to make a difference (despite the passion here on BSDA), most Adventist don’t care. These stories and tales are not newsworthy with the general media or the religious/Christian media. Folks as we enter 2008 the divorce is 4 years old now, the media is not coming.

[Clay]

Regardless of the prompt procedure for reporting a sexual assault in the Adventist church, GC can act on anything if they choose too. They are not stupid, they are concerned with protecting the image of the church as they should be, not wanting the church to be publicly embarrassed, threaten with financial disaster, etc. The problem as I see it…and not just this incident but the whole 3abn mess is that there has not been enough pressure put on GC to act. There is no outcry from Adventist members to make a difference (despite the passion here on BSDA), most Adventist don’t care. These stories and tales are not newsworthy with the general media or the religious/Christian media. Folks as we enter 2008 the divorce is 4 years old now, the media is not coming.

the GC doesn't necessarily have to "act" especially given the fact that 3abn would be considered an "independent ministry." Push come to shove the GC could issue a statement saying that 3abn is not an official ministry of the church, is not church operated or funded, and wash their hands of it....

I agree, the media is not interested....

[Panama_Pete]

the GC doesn't necessarily have to "act" especially given the fact that 3abn would be considered an "independent ministry." Push come to shove the GC could issue a statement saying that 3abn is not an official ministry of the church, is not church operated or funded, and wash their hands of it....

I agree, the media is not interested....

I understand what Clay and Calvin are saying. They have a point.

However......

If the Adventist Church needs the media before they can come to a consensus, then they need to start buying newspapers.

We Adventists need to ask the Christian Scientists about their Christian Science Monitor newspaper. Is it for sale, by any chance? Maybe owning the town's general hospital no longer provides that deeply-spiritual moral compass owning the town's newspaper could provide.

Maybe we're on to something really, really big here.

[Johann]

I understand what Clay and Calvin are saying. They have a point.

However......

If the Adventist Church needs the media before they can come to a consensus, then they need to start buying newspapers.

We Adventists need to ask the Christian Scientists about their Christian Science Monitor newspaper. Is it for sale, by any chance? Maybe owning the town's general hospital no longer provides that deeply-spiritual moral compass owning the town's newspaper could provide.

Maybe we're on to something really, really big here.

The newpaper is a media. . . just like TV. . . and even BSDA. Which is interested in the story?

[princessdi]

Sorry guys, I have to disagree about the media...I am almost sure someone voiced the same statment to the RCC before they media tore them apart. Televangelist stories are HUGE. If 20/20 has to spend three mins of their 20 min expose of a televangelist telling you exactly who they are, they will and have. Not everybody had heard of Benny Hinn when they first started probing into his ministry/business practices. Something like this might be valuable to the media, if for no other reason than a great many who have heard of SDAs, consider it a cult. GC may not be stupid, but they do move way too slowly on important issues like abuse, homosexuality, etc within the church. Mainly because they would like to project the image that they do not exist within it;s ranks.

Then once again, I voice concern over an organzation which claims to have The Message for the last days(that everyone needs,b ut no one else has). heard this just a few days ago at the new year's eve service), and to be The Remnant, pretty much inferring that everyone must join them to be save, are so content to perceive that they are flying under the radar. Why is that? Doesn't that mean we are not living up to what we claim?

[Johann]

Sorry guys, I have to disagree about the media...I am almost sure someone voiced the same statment to the RCC before they media tore them apart. Televangelist stories are HUGE. If 20/20 has to spend three mins of their 20 min expose of a televangelist telling you exactly who they are, they will and have. Not everybody had heard of Benny Hinn when they first started probing into his ministry/business practices. Something like this might be valuable to the media, if for no other reason than a great many who have heard of SDAs, consider it a cult. GC may not be stupid, but they do move way too slowly on important issues like abuse, homosexuality, etc within the church. Mainly because they would like to project the image that they do not exist within it;s ranks.

Then once again, I voice concern over an organzation which claims to have The Message for the last days(that everyone needs,b ut no one else has). heard this just a few days ago at the new year's eve service), and to be The Remnant, pretty much inferring that everyone must join them to be save, are so content to perceive that they are flying under the radar. Why is that? Doesn't that mean we are not living up to what we claim?

We are not forced to disagree as long as we portray the same opinion. You voice a real concern, for which BSDA is also a media which can be used to some degree. Also to give us ideas of how to go elsewhere with what is on our hearts.