Regarding Allegations Of Sexual Molestation By D S, What has been the response of the Adventist Church? Options

[Clay]

Sorry guys, I have to disagree about the media...I am almost sure someone voiced the same statment to the RCC before they media tore them apart. Televangelist stories are HUGE. If 20/20 has to spend three mins of their 20 min expose of a televangelist telling you exactly who they are, they will and have. Not everybody had heard of Benny Hinn when they first started probing into his ministry/business practices. Something like this might be valuable to the media, if for no other reason than a great many who have heard of SDAs, consider it a cult. GC may not be stupid, but they do move way too slowly on important issues like abuse, homosexuality, etc within the church. Mainly because they would like to project the image that they do not exist within it;s ranks.

Then once again, I voice concern over an organzation which claims to have The Message for the last days(that everyone needs,b ut no one else has). heard this just a few days ago at the new year's eve service), and to be The Remnant, pretty much inferring that everyone must join them to be save, are so content to perceive that they are flying under the radar. Why is that? Doesn't that mean we are not living up to what we claim?

3abn is not technically affiliated with the sda church, so the analogy is not the same... as such, the media whoever that might be has yet to show any interest in the 3abn stuff.... likewise, your point is moot from this standpoint, look at Hinn, Peter Popoff, Robert Tilton, etc... they have been investigated, found out to be doing shaky stuff and yet they are STILL on t.v. Clearly in spite of their "wrongdoing" they have people who will support them.....

[Artiste]

3abn is not technically affiliated with the sda church, so the analogy is not the same... as such, the media whoever that might be has yet to show any interest in the 3abn stuff.... likewise, your point is moot from this standpoint, look at Hinn, Peter Popoff, Robert Tilton, etc... they have been investigated, found out to be doing shaky stuff and yet they are STILL on t.v. Clearly in spite of their "wrongdoing" they have people who will support them.....

Good points all of the above about whether the "media" may or not be interested in the 3ABN problems.

Although 3ABN is not technically affiliated with the Seventh-day Adventist church, church leadership has yet to publicly deny the "face of Adventism" perception that many have had and continue to have about 3ABN.

Another thing to remember is that the "media" is not a homogenous entity. While it is true that certain of the media out there have shown no interest in pursuing 3ABN news issues, there are other forms of media that would definitely be interested--and perhaps are now as we speak--since 3ABN is so widely connected in people's minds with the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

The real news issue in that case would be the culpability of the Seventh-day Adventist church as a denomination in not attempting to correct either the problems found in 3ABN or the perceptions that 3ABN is so closly connected with the church.

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[calvin]

Sorry guys, I have to disagree about the media...I am almost sure someone voiced the same statment to the RCC before they media tore them apart. Televangelist stories are HUGE. If 20/20 has to spend three mins of their 20 min expose of a televangelist telling you exactly who they are, they will and have. Not everybody had heard of Benny Hinn when they first started probing into his ministry/business practices. Something like this might be valuable to the media, if for no other reason than a great many who have heard of SDAs, consider it a cult. GC may not be stupid, but they do move way too slowly on important issues like abuse, homosexuality, etc within the church. Mainly because they would like to project the image that they do not exist within it;s ranks.

Then once again, I voice concern over an organzation which claims to have The Message for the last days(that everyone needs,b ut no one else has). heard this just a few days ago at the new year's eve service), and to be The Remnant, pretty much inferring that everyone must join them to be save, are so content to perceive that they are flying under the radar. Why is that? Doesn't that mean we are not living up to what we claim?

Reality check. Dumping your wife, then firing her and marrying someone else is not a crime, is not newsworthy. Even the tax stuff only amounts to a few 10s of thousands of dollars. This may play in Adventist land, but not in Omaha, NE or the rest of the world. Another thing, Danny Shelton is no Benny Hinn. Danny and 3abn are bit players in the world of televangelist that fly way under the radar.

[Clay]

Reality check. Dumping your wife, then firing her and marrying someone else is not a crime, is not newsworthy. Even the tax stuff only amounts to a few 10s of thousands of dollars. This may play in Adventist land, but not in Omaha, NE or the rest of the world. Another thing, Danny Shelton is no Benny Hinn. Danny and 3abn are bit players in the world of televangelist that fly way under the radar.

Calvin when all of this first started I disagreed with you on some points, however as time has passed and all the "prophecies" about things soon to happen have failed, or something was about to break, and nothing has, or people saying they knew things but could not say (if that is the case its moot at this point), I am inclined to agree with you.... it may be important to adventists, but to the nation and the U.S. it is not even a blip on the radar.....

[PeacefulBe]

The one area that I see as potentially newsworthy may not ever see the light of day because most of those who have claimed to have been abused have chosen, for whatever reason, to remain silent. Does this mean the allegations were false? Who knows...

[Johann]

The one area that I see as potentially newsworthy may not ever see the light of day because most of those who have claimed to have been abused have chosen, for whatever reason, to remain silent. Does this mean the allegations were false? Who knows...

Such things have a way of being delayed. Delayed for a long time. Delayed for many years, until they finally strike the media.

Just this evening I saw an interview with a young lady on TV. About 15-16 years ago she was sexually abused by her grandfather. As a punishment the 12-yeara old girl was locked in a children's home, only permitted to be in fresh air an hour a day, and her parents could only see her for one hour a week. She did not receive needed medical help. The local childrens welfare had placed her there. It went on until a psychiatric officer managed to visit the girl. He believed her story. Not only did he see to it that the girl was released, but later the supreme court granted her suitable finanicial compensation for the terrible treatment she had received.

Another girl who had been at that home at the same time was also interviewed, and she told more horror stories of how girls were confined, taped to their beds, etc.

Then the psychologist who was the leader of home at that time was interviewed. Of course he had never done anything wrong!!! In spite of the supreme court ruling. He was only a victim of the system!!!!

The childrens welfare officer was also confronted by TV,the one who had placed the girl there, and who was still in office. She had no sense of guilt. In spite of the supreme court ruling.

It can hit the media. Some times 15 or 20 years in the future. And yet the guilty ones still claim innocense. That is how it works in this world of ours.

Keep tuned!

This post has been edited by Johann: Jan 3 2008, 03:57 PM

[YogusBearus]

Such things have a way of being delayed. Delayed for a long time. Delayed for many years, until they finally strike the media.

Just this evening I saw an interview with a young lady on TV. About 15-16 years ago she was sexually abused by her grandfather. As a punishment the 12-yeara old girl was locked in a children's home, only permitted to be in fresh air an hour a day, and her parents could only see her for one hour a week. She did not receive needed medical help. The local childrens welfare had placed her there. It went on until a psychiatric officer managed to visit the girl. He believed her story. Not only did he see to it that the girl was released, but later the supreme court granted her suitable finanicial compensation for the terrible treatment she had received.

Another girl who had been at that home at the same time was also interviewed, and she told more horror stories of how girls were confined, taped to their beds, etc.

Then the psychologist who was the leader of home at that time was interviewed. Of course he had never done anything wrong!!! In spite of the supreme court ruling. He was only a victim of the system!!!!

The childrens welfare officer was also confronted by TV,the one who had placed the girl there, and who was still in office. She had no sense of guilt. In spite of the supreme court ruling.

It can hit the media. Some times 15 or 20 years in the future. And yet the guilty ones still claim innocense. That is how it works in this world of ours.

Keep tuned!

Help me here please. Are we wanting the press to get involved on this or not? I lose track...

-bear

[Johann]

Help me here please. Are we wanting the press to get involved on this or not? I lose track...

-bear

Just a warning. If we escape the media now it may still hit the media some time in the future, unless we are willing to clean the camp, like Danny used to say.

[princessdi]

Naw, I don't mean about dumping his wife part, more the financial/donor abuses portion. I just don't think that we should get so smug in our own "annonymity". Even if it is part of a bigger sory, and just a mention. We are using our annonymity like the RCC used it's power, and when all was said and done, was nothing the pope could say when the mediadescended upon them with that scandal about the priests. they did not handle their business and they paid for it. And once again, why is it we(the "Remnant" the only ones with the message to save the world) are so content to be annonymous again

For the record, I wasn't too sure about that it's about to break stuff either. Too many sheeple hanging about the church for the courage for any real reformation and change. As long as folks can say that 3ABN is getting "The Message" out. Anything Danny does will be alright in the places where it counts.

Reality check. Dumping your wife, then firing her and marrying someone else is not a crime, is not newsworthy. Even the tax stuff only amounts to a few 10s of thousands of dollars. This may play in Adventist land, but not in Omaha, NE or the rest of the world. Another thing, Danny Shelton is no Benny Hinn. Danny and 3abn are bit players in the world of televangelist that fly way under the radar.

[Clay]

Just a warning. If we escape the media now it may still hit the media some time in the future, unless we are willing to clean the camp, like Danny used to say.

time will tell... I don't see it happening though....

[Johann]

time will tell... I don't see it happening though....

Neither did you claim to have prophetic vision decades into the future.

What do you want your childdren to remember about you in the future when you are old and feeble?

[Clay]

Neither did you claim to have prophetic vision decades into the future.

What do you want your childdren to remember about you in the future when you are old and feeble?

why? as in the purpose for your question is what?

[Johann]

why? as in the purpose for your question is what?

I never suggested my question should be narrowed down to a single bar. . . Thinking is one of the greatest capacities the Good Lord gave us and that most of us should develop as we are growing up from being newborn babies.

It may, and it may not, have something to do with why I am in this. Why I keep on participating in the discussions you invite people to in your great forum. But I am not here to narrow everything down to a single line or idea. I like to challenge you, as well as others, to look at things from varying perspectives. A dime was never identical on both sides.

Back to why I am in this. . . I am not in this just to convince you, nor anyone in particular. I like to learn from you, if that should be possible, to see how other people think. Your strength as a discussion leader seems to be to narrow things down, and to see things in a perspective of here and now. You may not have great success in making me think that way too. It may have something to do with the climate of my upbringing.

Two years ago I moved back to the area of my childhood home. From my door I see many mountains, and several are so far away I have to drive fast to get to them in an hour or two. So I look at things in a wider perspective than just to where my neighbor snores.

I would not care taking part in this if what counts is how many I can convince of my views in a day or two. To me it makes no difference what Clay, Noahswife, Fallible or Gullible thinks. That may have consquences here and now, but is that what counts?

It may seem very important to reach a reasonable verdict in a court of law within the jurisdiction of the United States of America. Such a verdict is not my main concern. I am more concerned what the final court of the Universe finds at the end of time.

Have I stood for what is right, or have I been swayed by the opinions of well meaning people regarding the expediency of here and now as the ultimate?

One of my college teachers made us memorize the words Fran displays on her posts, and yet I often prefer to paraphrase in making it more personal. I must be more concerned with the truth I am convinced the Good Lord has entrusted me with, than to let my thoughts be swayed away from that path. So my purpose has to be as firm and steady as the needle showing the path to the pole.

You have your freedom to follow a different path, and I love you no less for that.

[Panama_Pete]

The newpaper is a media. . . just like TV. . . and even BSDA . Which is interested in the story?

Johann, you have a good point here.

BSDA functions as a news clearinghouse - with point and counterpoint analysis, editorial commentary, and corrections to erroneous information.

Have you noticed that if something important to adventism happens, whether it happens in Berrien Springs or Alice Springs, that item increasingly finds its way here? Is it due to the increasing membership at BSDA? I think so.

[YogusBearus]

Just a warning. If we escape the media now it may still hit the media some time in the future, unless we are willing to clean the camp, like Danny used to say.

So are you saying it would be desireable to have the media involved now? Are we wishing for that or dreading the possibility?

-bear