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[Harold T]

There is no argument that 3ABN's programming is SDA-centered. My problem with 3ABN is that Danny Shelton wishes for everything to be centered around him. You will discover the truth soon enough.

I have known Danny for almost 12 years. I have never seen any programming from 3ABN centered on him. He has even stepped down as president. Try watching, again. Notice that they never even mention anything but what the programs are meant to do. Put the love of God in all hearts.

Harold T

[Johann]

I have known Danny for almost 12 years. I have never seen any programming from 3ABN centered on him. He has even stepped down as president. Try watching, again. Notice that they never even mention anything but what the programs are meant to do. Put the love of God in all hearts.

Harold T

I admire your loyalty, Harold. I was also fully loyal to that man, for whom I was working, and I defended him against many adversaries, until I discovered he was cheating and lying. It was not what someone else told me, but what I experienced myself.

I would easily excused him if he had admitted and repented, but he wold not listen to me.

What would you have done if you had experienced that yourself?

This post has been edited by Johann: Jan 13 2008, 07:27 AM

[Ian]

I have known Danny for almost 12 years. I have never seen any programming from 3ABN centered on him. He has even stepped down as president. Try watching, again. Notice that they never even mention anything but what the programs are meant to do. Put the love of God in all hearts.

Harold T

Thank you Harold for your support of 3ABN programming and what you have witnessed in that regard. I fully agree with all that you have posted here.

I wish it wasn't necessary to point this out, but Justiceforjesus, seems to be bearing a grudge against Danny Shelton, and admits to not being Adventist, or a viewer, and so probably isn't the best judge of what is, or is not SDA programming, or the quality and content of 3ABN programs.

This post has been edited by Ian: Jan 13 2008, 08:10 AM

[watchbird]

HEY GUYS!
MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN AND I BELIEVE MAY NEVER BE MUCH SAID OR TAUGHT ABOUT CHRIST FROM ANY OF THESE CHANNELS WHETHER 3ABN OR HOPE ANYWAY. I WAS BORN INTO ADVENTISM AND ADVENTISM IS ALL I HAVE HEARD PREACHED OR TAUGHT FROM ALL ADVENTIST SOURCES THAT I HAVE KNOWN. I FIRST HEARD ABOUT JESUS FROM SOME OTHER CHRISTIAN PREACHER WHO WAS NOT ADVENTIST. I EXPECT AN ATTACK FOR WHAT I AM NOW WRITING BUT HEY, I CANNOT SPEAK OF WHAT I DO NOT KNOW. I KNOW NOW THAT CHRIST IS ALL

Please turn off your caps lock. Internet etiquette interprets capital letters as shouting and it's considered very rude. Mr. J tried to explain this to you but I thought you might need it spelled out.

Thank you Soul for spelling this out.... I was wondering how many more times st mary would need to be told before she heard. While I would like to be as charitable as possible also, I still have to wonder if there may not be some connection between her not hearing anything about Christ in Adventism and her not hearing the kindly admonitions here about her manner of typing.

I bolded a section of your paragraph I found particularly telling. Clearly you were not exposed to the many varieties of Adventism growing up. The healthy Adventist churches know that Christ is the only reason we exist -- He made us and He's coming back for us, which is what the Seventh-day Adventist name means.

Unfortunately your experience is not uncommon. I wish it were. The first thing that comes to mind is a church a friend of mind went to where every sermon for twenty years was a compilation of EGW quotes. I'm not even slightly exaggerating. What a shame! The second thing to come to mind is some of the, uh, exorcisms I've had to do in my own work. (Not literal exorcisms--just driving out, for lack of a better word, people who think it's about us instead of about Him.) Thank God for forums like BlackSDA and publications like Adventist Today where Christ is in fact Lord ... even if we're not perfect.

One thing 3ABN and certain sectors of the Adventist church apparently both have a weakness for being preoccupied with their own wonderfulness -- instead of Jesus. We do forget that we're cut from the same cloth as other Christians. We're not the only ones who fall to this temptation but that doesn't make it right.

I'm sorry, but I cannot be so charitable as this to st mary nor so negative about Adventist churches as what you are being here. I have been in a wide variety of Adventist environments in the 65+ years that I have been a baptized member.... and not even in the most negative and strict environments have I found that Christ is not even mentioned. Even on 3abn, with all of its faults and time spent on what people should and should not do, Christ is still lifted up and even made prominent. The fault I find with 3abn is not so much their over all programing as it is that the lives of many of their leaders do not match their message.

There is "something wrong with this picture" when such generalized statements are made about having to go elsewhere to find Jesus Christ "preached or taught".... and raised up as both Saviour and Lord. And certainly Adventist Today is not the only Adventist publication where one may find Christ made central and prominent. How can one read Adventist Review, for example, without finding an abundance of articles on Christ as the reason for all things having to do with our relatioship with God. True, they also have news of Adventists around the world and their activities... as well as many others which have to do with our relation to each other. But still, Christ is lifted up through all of this and IMO it takes someone with some kind of a resistant "filter" on their hearing if they "never hear Christ" as central to our salvation and our lives.

Thank God for that other preacher! May the Lord continue to bless you on your journey. There are local SDA churches where Jesus has not left the building, but go where you find Him. It's unthinkable to go to an Adventist church where He's absent, instead of another church around the corner where He's wanted.

Edited for charity and clarity.

IMO it is also "unthinkable" to be so focused on the negative as to not be able to worship with Adventists who may not make their sermons exactly as one wishes. Jesus is present more places than one might think.... and He may be found wherever we go to seek Him. I join you in telling st mary, "May the Lord continue to bless you on your journey". I would hope that she might also take another look at Adventism as presented in the mainstream publications of the Adventist church... and hopefully recognize that Christ is "alive and well and dwelling in Adventism" as well as in any other church that may claim his presence.

[Harold T]

I admire your loyalty, Harold. I was also fully loyal to that man, for whom I was working, and I defended him against many adversaries, until I discovered he was cheating and lying. It was not what someone else told me, but what I experienced myself.

I would easily excused him if he had admitted and repented, but he wold not listen to me.

What would you have done if you had experienced that yourself?

I don't understand what that has to do with the programming. I watch 3ABN every day and I don't remember ever seeing Danny promoting himself. He may have done some things that you don't approve of. What has that to do with what 3ABN is doing for the rest of the world? I don't watch Danny. I watch 3ABN.

Harold T.

[Pickle]

Thanks, WB, for pointing those things out.

[Johann]

I don't understand what that has to do with the programming. I watch 3ABN every day and I don't remember ever seeing Danny promoting himself. He may have done some things that you don't approve of. What has that to do with what 3ABN is doing for the rest of the world? I don't watch Danny. I watch 3ABN.

Harold T.

I still commend you for your loyalty to Danny, although our loyalty should primarily be to Jesus Christ. You may not have noticed one of the reasons I discovered in my conversations with certain 3ABN administrators why Linda was trashed. It was indicated to me that it was because of the songs she wrote on the love of Christ and His mercy. That she had to pay for by Danny destroying their marriage and erasing her from the memmory of 3ABN. Do you think that was fair?

[justice4jesus]

I have known Danny for almost 12 years. I have never seen any programming from 3ABN centered on him. He has even stepped down as president. Try watching, again. Notice that they never even mention anything but what the programs are meant to do. Put the love of God in all hearts.

Harold T

Like Johann, I admire your loyalty to Danny and 3ABN, but don't let that loyalty be a blinder to you. I have known Danny for nearly 30 years, and I have seen a drastic change in him in recent years. It isn't the programming; it's a general thing with Danny. In his mind, his word is the Word of God and should be blindly obeyed, regardless of how far out it may be.

Such is the problem with Dr. Walt and the board. They are not self-supportive; they are resting on Danny. Danny, by his own admission, is not gone from 3ABN. Elder Gilley and the board are still on his shoulders, which is exactly where he wants them to be, and if he ever falls, the rest of them will come tumbling down with him. I pray that God steps in before this happens, but in order for God to step in, Danny must get out of the doorway. Sure, God could force His way in, but He's not that kind of God. Danny must decide whether he wants 3ABN to survive or he wants to crash and burn with it.

Yes, Danny seems sincere early on, but so did Jim Jones. So did Jimmy Swaggart. So did Jim Bakker. So did Ted Haggard. So did every other public evangelist who has fallen. Danny is a man, and is no better than anyone else.

I don't want to argue with you, Harold T, but I do want to encourage you to look at the "big picture". Sad but true, there is another Danny Shelton who is not so pleasant to deal with. Johann knows, and so do I. This is not a Danny Shelton bash-fest; we're only trying to help you understand some things.

Above all else, keep praying for Danny and 3ABN, as I am sure you already do.

[st mary]

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR CORRECTIONS AND YOUR HELP IN EVERYTHING ELSE. THEY ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
st mary

[jakann]

I've heard that 3ABN is planning a big expansion in the months and years to come. Apparently a Mandarin Chinese channel as well as a separate children's channel and others are planned. This is good news! I'm of the opinion that the open window we now have to share the gospel in many parts of the world will close soon, very soon. Perhaps the time is so short as to be measured in months. Can anyone with any further knowledge of this please share it with us! I'd be interested in streaming a 24/7 SDA music channel into my home and referring it to others! I know a few Chinese as well who might be interested.

[watchbird]

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR CORRECTIONS AND YOUR HELP IN EVERYTHING ELSE. THEY ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
st mary

But apparently not "appreciated" enough for you to correct the simple problem with your typing in all caps that has been pointed out to you by several so far.

Hmmm....... maybe some new definition of "appreciated".....

Oh well.....

Back to our regular programming.....

...................

[Harold T]

I still commend you for your loyalty to Danny, although our loyalty should primarily be to Jesus Christ. You may not have noticed one of the reasons I discovered in my conversations with certain 3ABN administrators why Linda was trashed. It was indicated to me that it was because of the songs she wrote on the love of Christ and His mercy. That she had to pay for by Danny destroying their marriage and erasing her from the memmory of 3ABN. Do you think that was fair?

I wish I could get across that is isn't Danny that I watch. I know he has done things that I don't approve of, either. Danny is NOT 3ABN.

Harold T.

[SoulEspresso]

Thank you Soul for spelling this out.... I was wondering how many more times st mary would need to be told before she heard. While I would like to be as charitable as possible also, I still have to wonder if there may not be some connection between her not hearing anything about Christ in Adventism and her not hearing the kindly admonitions here about her manner of typing.

It's fair for you to wonder that, but I don't like to speculate on such connections without harder evidence. IMO it doesn't help either myself or St. Mary to confront the areas in which we disagree without acknowledging at the very least what's true in her experience. Everyone's experience is different, because every Adventist congregation is different.

I'm sorry, but I cannot be so charitable as this to st mary nor so negative about Adventist churches as what you are being here. I have been in a wide variety of Adventist environments in the 65+ years that I have been a baptized member.... and not even in the most negative and strict environments have I found that Christ is not even mentioned. Even on 3abn, with all of its faults and time spent on what people should and should not do, Christ is still lifted up and even made prominent. The fault I find with 3abn is not so much their over all programing as it is that the lives of many of their leaders do not match their message.

I thoroughly respect your experience and don't disagree with it out of hand. One thing almost all Adventists have in common is a strong desire for truth. Unfortunately, in my experience, the name of Christ has been used all too often as a rubber stamp for promoting ourselves instead of Him. It's true that every Adventist church mentions the name of Christ, but that doesn't mean that every congregation is centered on Christ. And a lot of our public evangelism mentions Christ, but is clearly more interested in making Adventists than making disciples for Jesus.

In other words, there's a strong element of "We're right and everyone else is wrong" even if the people who most represent this POV strongly deny it. This is changing for the better in some areas of the organization, but it isn't so widespread that God isn't raising up proponents of Present Truth in other places far away from the SDA church.

God is God; He doesn't need us, and so many Adventists have been preoccupied with questions of their own identity they forget that Christ is the foundation of that. True doctrines, which are the reason I am SDA and do what I do, which have been an awesome blessing to me, which I think constitute the best theological/wholistic system in Christendom, have become idols in the minds of so many of our people.

Jesus is the only way to God, but we're not the only way to Jesus -- either now or at the End Time.

There is "something wrong with this picture" when such generalized statements are made about having to go elsewhere to find Jesus Christ "preached or taught".... and raised up as both Saviour and Lord. And certainly Adventist Today is not the only Adventist publication where one may find Christ made central and prominent. How can one read Adventist Review, for example, without finding an abundance of articles on Christ as the reason for all things having to do with our relatioship with God. True, they also have news of Adventists around the world and their activities... as well as many others which have to do with our relation to each other. But still, Christ is lifted up through all of this and IMO it takes someone with some kind of a resistant "filter" on their hearing if they "never hear Christ" as central to our salvation and our lives.

I don't know what St. Mary's experience has been, but at least on some level, her local congregations failed her by failing to present Jesus. I have no evidence that this is based on selective hearing on her part; I know from my experience there are a lot of congregations like this, particularly smaller churches in rural areas. I'm sure to a certain degree she was being hyperbolic with her generalizations, but all it takes is being attached to the wrong Sabbath School class, or hearing the wrong kind of evangelism one too many times.

On my own part, I quit following the Review years ago because I felt it was more a cheerleading publication than a venue for real discussion. Maybe that's it's role, and maybe it's my fault for not giving it a better shot. Doubtless those who write there have that Strong Desire for Truth and perhaps for most of them that translates to Truth as Jesus. You don't have to be limited to what I mentioned! Those were just what I was thinking of at the time.

IMO it is also "unthinkable" to be so focused on the negative as to not be able to worship with Adventists who may not make their sermons exactly as one wishes.

There are healthy Adventist churches and unhealthy ones. If for whatever reason the unhealthiness is so pervasive that the congregation exudes a destructive influence, I wouldn't take people there.

Jesus is present more places than one might think.... and He may be found wherever we go to seek Him. I join you in telling st mary, "May the Lord continue to bless you on your journey". I would hope that she might also take another look at Adventism as presented in the mainstream publications of the Adventist church... and hopefully recognize that Christ is "alive and well and dwelling in Adventism" as well as in any other church that may claim his presence.

I agree with this.

[justice4jesus]

I wish I could get across that is isn't Danny that I watch. I know he has done things that I don't approve of, either. Danny is NOT 3ABN.

Harold T.

Agreed! Excellent point!

[PeacefulBe]

It's fair for you to wonder that, but I don't like to speculate on such connections without harder evidence. IMO it doesn't help either myself or St. Mary to confront the areas in which we disagree without acknowledging at the very least what's true in her experience. Everyone's experience is different, because every Adventist congregation is different.
I thoroughly respect your experience and don't disagree with it out of hand. One thing almost all Adventists have in common is a strong desire for truth. Unfortunately, in my experience, the name of Christ has been used all too often as a rubber stamp for promoting ourselves instead of Him. It's true that every Adventist church mentions the name of Christ, but that doesn't mean that every congregation is centered on Christ. And a lot of our public evangelism mentions Christ, but is clearly more interested in making Adventists than making disciples for Jesus.

In other words, there's a strong element of "We're right and everyone else is wrong" even if the people who most represent this POV strongly deny it. This is changing for the better in some areas of the organization, but it isn't so widespread that God isn't raising up proponents of Present Truth in other places far away from the SDA church.

God is God; He doesn't need us, and so many Adventists have been preoccupied with questions of their own identity they forget that Christ is the foundation of that. True doctrines, which are the reason I am SDA and do what I do, which have been an awesome blessing to me, which I think constitute the best theological/wholistic system in Christendom, have become idols in the minds of so many of our people.

Jesus is the only way to God, but we're not the only way to Jesus -- either now or at the End Time.
I don't know what St. Mary's experience has been, but at least on some level, her local congregations failed her by failing to present Jesus. I have no evidence that this is based on selective hearing on her part; I know from my experience there are a lot of congregations like this, particularly smaller churches in rural areas. I'm sure to a certain degree she was being hyperbolic with her generalizations, but all it takes is being attached to the wrong Sabbath School class, or hearing the wrong kind of evangelism one too many times.

On my own part, I quit following the Review years ago because I felt it was more a cheerleading publication than a venue for real discussion. Maybe that's it's role, and maybe it's my fault for not giving it a better shot. Doubtless those who write there have that Strong Desire for Truth and perhaps for most of them that translates to Truth as Jesus. You don't have to be limited to what I mentioned! Those were just what I was thinking of at the time.
There are healthy Adventist churches and unhealthy ones. If for whatever reason the unhealthiness is so pervasive that the congregation exudes a destructive influence, I wouldn't take people there.
I agree with this.

SE, this is the spirit our denomination so desperately needs! Thank you for making these incredibly astute and important points. Please don't let it go to your head or think i am heaping praise on you carelessly, but I would sure like to be a member in any church you are pastoring.