Is The Cure Worse, than the sickness? Options

[Richard Sherwin]

For the last however many years there have been heated discussions about Danny Shelton and 3abn. This has covered a host of others including Tommy Shelton and Linda Shelton. It's gone on and on to the point of lawsuits and threatened lawsuits, accounts of child molestation, IRS cheating, wrongful firings, mental illness, etc etc. It's getting to the point that there is no longer any point. We've had defenders and accusers attacking each other all over the internet and in court, but at least not yet in the nations news rooms. Not yet.

My questions is at what point has the medicine and the dispensing of it become worse for the church than the illness? Or has it already? Is there ever a point when both sides need to just come together as Christians, lay down their swords and get on with the work of spreading the gospel. Is the cure killing us instead of the sickness?

The anonymous nature of the internet has done much harm in these discussion. I expect that if it was required that everyone post under their own names there would be much less posting and the posts would be much more civil and Christ like. If the people who post knew who they were talking to maybe a bit more love and a bit less hatred would show through. The animosity shown to each other on these and countless other boards is not of Christ.

Maybe the time has come when we need to, with the Holy Spirit leading begin the process of turning our swords into plowshares. It's time to get on with the mission of being fishermen, not assassins.

[justice4jesus]

For the last however many years there have been heated discussions about Danny Shelton and 3abn. This has covered a host of others including Tommy Shelton and Linda Shelton. It's gone on and on to the point of lawsuits and threatened lawsuits, accounts of child molestation, IRS cheating, wrongful firings, mental illness, etc etc. It's getting to the point that there is no longer any point. We've had defenders and accusers attacking each other all over the internet and in court, but at least not yet in the nations news rooms. Not yet.

My questions is at what point has the medicine and the dispensing of it become worse for the church than the illness? Or has it already? Is there ever a point when both sides need to just come together as Christians, lay down their swords and get on with the work of spreading the gospel. Is the cure killing us instead of the sickness?

The anonymous nature of the internet has done much harm in these discussion. I expect that if it was required that everyone post under their own names there would be much less posting and the posts would be much more civil and Christ like. If the people who post knew who they were talking to maybe a bit more love and a bit less hatred would show through. The animosity shown to each other on these and countless other boards is not of Christ.

Maybe the time has come when we need to, with the Holy Spirit leading begin the process of turning our swords into plowshares. It's time to get on with the mission of being fishermen, not assassins.

I agree wholeheartedly with your logic in this regard, Richard. Equally as important, however, is the "cleansing of the temple", as it were. Those whose conduct is not in line with God will continue to be a detriment to the work, and they must be set aside. Still the subject of much prayer, mind you, but set aside until such time as their hearts and minds are centered on Christ, and Him alone.

[Richard Sherwin]

We're all a detriment to the work. The fighting going on is a detriment to the work. How many of us can honestly say that our hearts are completely centered on Christ? Maybe I, speaking for myself, need to realize that I'm not worthy to be throwing that first stone and all the rancor going on is just playing into the hands of those who are against the spreading of the gospel. While I will grant it appears that Danny and company have made a lot of mistakes, blunders and unethical moves is he any different than the rest of us? Maybe it's time we pull together, not to tear down Danny and 3abn but to uphold Christ.

I agree wholeheartedly with your logic in this regard, Richard. Equally as important, however, is the "cleansing of the temple", as it were. Those whose conduct is not in line with God will continue to be a detriment to the work, and they must be set aside. Still the subject of much prayer, mind you, but set aside until such time as their hearts and minds are centered on Christ, and Him alone.

[justice4jesus]

We're all a detriment to the work. The fighting going on is a detriment to the work. How many of us can honestly say that our hearts are completely centered on Christ? Maybe I, speaking for myself, need to realize that I'm not worthy to be throwing that first stone and all the rancor going on is just playing into the hands of those who are against the spreading of the gospel. While I will grant it appears that Danny and company have made a lot of mistakes, blunders and unethical moves is he any different than the rest of us? Maybe it's time we pull together, not to tear down Danny and 3abn but to uphold Christ.

Agreed! None of us are perfect, and we all slip and fall from time to time. I think we all need this reminder every now and then....that our goal in such situations should not be to finish anyone off, but to ensure that the light of Jesus shines so much brighter than anything (and anyONE) else.

Thanks, Richard, for this reminder.

[JustTheFaxMan]

For the last however many years there have been heated discussions about Danny Shelton and 3abn. This has covered a host of others including Tommy Shelton and Linda Shelton. It's gone on and on to the point of lawsuits and threatened lawsuits, accounts of child molestation, IRS cheating, wrongful firings, mental illness, etc etc. It's getting to the point that there is no longer any point. We've had defenders and accusers attacking each other all over the internet and in court, but at least not yet in the nations news rooms. Not yet.

My questions is at what point has the medicine and the dispensing of it become worse for the church than the illness? Or has it already? Is there ever a point when both sides need to just come together as Christians, lay down their swords and get on with the work of spreading the gospel. Is the cure killing us instead of the sickness?

The anonymous nature of the internet has done much harm in these discussion. I expect that if it was required that everyone post under their own names there would be much less posting and the posts would be much more civil and Christ like. If the people who post knew who they were talking to maybe a bit more love and a bit less hatred would show through. The animosity shown to each other on these and countless other boards is not of Christ.

Maybe the time has come when we need to, with the Holy Spirit leading begin the process of turning our swords into plowshares. It's time to get on with the mission of being fishermen, not assassins.

Jihaads are hard to contain once started. Life has a purpose and rational thought seems to evaporate.

This post has been edited by JustTheFaxMan: Jan 27 2008, 06:31 PM

[judibug60]

I think we all need to be on our knees daily as we watch the prophecies unfold before our very eyes....Like the Pope coming to Washington DC in April.....The new ID drivers licenses coming out in May.......The numerous things going on in our Denomination.....Are these not all fullfilments of the last day prophecies we have known all our SDA lives?????......I think so............we need to be deligently searching our lives as we prepare for the rapidly approaching coming of our Lord and Savior.....because I believe it is closer than we think........I remain in continued prayer...............All the things going on are somehow slipping in through the cracks as the multitudes wonder after the deteriation of our denomination and its leaders...............we all need to pray for eye salve..............

This post has been edited by judibug60: Jan 28 2008, 07:35 AM

[Richard Sherwin]

Agreed. Prophesy is being fulfilled before our eyes and yet as was also prophesied, most are not seeing it.

I think we all need to be on our knees daily as we watch the prophecies unfold before our very eyes....Like the Pope coming to Washington DC in April.....The new ID drivers licenses coming out in May.......The numerous things going on in our Denomination.....Are these not all fullfilments of the last day prophecies we have known all our SDA lives?????......I think so............we need to be deligently searching our lives as we prepare for the rapidly approaching coming of our Lord and Savior.....because I believe it is closer than we think........I remain in continued prayer...............All the things going on are somehow slipping in through the cracks as the multitudes wonder after the deteriation of our denomination and its leaders...............we all need to pray for eye salve..............

[awesumtenor]

I think we all need to be on our knees daily as we watch the prophecies unfold before our very eyes....Like the Pope coming to Washington DC in April.....The new ID drivers licenses coming out in May.......The numerous things going on in our Denomination.....Are these not all fullfilments of the last day prophecies we have known all our SDA lives?????......I think so............we need to be deligently searching our lives as we prepare for the rapidly approaching coming of our Lord and Savior.....because I believe it is closer than we think........I remain in continued prayer...............All the things going on are somehow slipping in through the cracks as the multitudes wonder after the deteriation of our denomination and its leaders...............we all need to pray for eye salve..............

The Pope coming to DC fulfills what prophecy, per se? And why didn't previous visits by previous popes fulfill it?

Or is this just more of the "don't forget the jesuits; they are out there... lurking.. waiting until the time is right to strike" FUD that waxes and wanes in it's prevalence in Adventism?

When are we going to realize we are far closer to destruction from within than from without?

In His service,
Mr. J

[judibug60]

Agreed. Prophesy is being fulfilled before our eyes and yet as was also prophesied, most are not seeing it.

yes Richard, AMEN........ I watched the convocation from Heartland this weekend, and as the pastors relayed to the congregation, this trip of the Pope to Washington DC....they want the Sunday as the Lords Day to become law before Bush leaves office..........OH PEOPLE............you have to see this as the sign the Sunday Sabbath law is coming so soon................JESUS IS COMING............

[justice4jesus]

I think we all need to be on our knees daily as we watch the prophecies unfold before our very eyes....Like the Pope coming to Washington DC in April.....The new ID drivers licenses coming out in May.......The numerous things going on in our Denomination.....Are these not all fullfilments of the last day prophecies we have known all our SDA lives?????......I think so............we need to be deligently searching our lives as we prepare for the rapidly approaching coming of our Lord and Savior.....because I believe it is closer than we think........I remain in continued prayer...............All the things going on are somehow slipping in through the cracks as the multitudes wonder after the deteriation of our denomination and its leaders...............we all need to pray for eye salve..............

Also agreed! It never ceases to amaze me that when another prophecy is fulfilled, so many are of the what-is-going-on-here mindset, as if they never saw it coming. If they honestly didn't see it coming, then they have been looking in the wrong place for directions.

Not being Adventist, I am sure that there are areas at which we look from different angles, but one thing that I know we all agree on is this....Jesus IS on His way back. Those who are ready will dwell with Him forever in a perfect world, and those who are not ready........will not!

[Clay]

The Pope coming to DC fulfills what prophecy, per se? And why didn't previous visits by previous popes fulfill it?

Or is this just more of the "don't forget the jesuits; they are out there... lurking.. waiting until the time is right to strike" FUD that waxes and wanes in it's prevalence in Adventism?

When are we going to realize we are far closer to destruction from within than from without?

In His service,
Mr. J

because some crisis oriented adventists believe that this is "the Pope" that will usher in Sunday laws, and you know that Sunday observance is the mark of the beast... you know that....

When will we realize that because of our love for Him, whenever he returns we are ready....

[Statrei]

The Pope coming to DC fulfills what prophecy, per se? And why didn't previous visits by previous popes fulfill it?

On Sabbath I listened to a GC official try to make this case in his Religious Libery sermon. What struck me was the way he did it. He did not have the courage to accuse the Pope so he speak of this power that is waiting to take advantage of world events and will have discussions with the President in the coming weeks. It was shameful. We have not learned the lessons of 1844.

[PeacefulBe]

Sometimes I wonder if the "signs" that we have heard about have simply become a sad SDA alarm clock so we can go on sleeping until the last possible minute. This present life is supposed to be about developing a relationship with our Savior, growing and rejoicing in Him and loving our neighbors (no matter who they are or what denomination they may or may not belong to). Prophecy can help strengthen our faith, but nothing replaces the wide awake, vital relationships we need with God and His children.

What are we going to do if, when we get to heaven, this pope is walking in through one of the city's gates with a contingent of Jesuit priests just in front of us?

btw...Scaring folks with doom-filled alarm bells isn't the best way to bring them in, IMHO.

Edited for grammar......plus I calmed down a bit.

This post has been edited by PeacefulBe: Jan 28 2008, 04:47 PM

[LaurenceD]

This Aventist outlook was normal regarding "signs" in the late 1800's...

The day of test and purification is just upon us. Signs of a most startling character appear, in floods, in hurricanes, in tornadoes, in cloudbursts, in casualties by land and by sea, that proclaim the approach of the end of all things. The judgments of God are falling on the world, that men may be awakened to the fact that Christ will come speedily (RH Nov. 8, 1892). {7BC 950.5}

...and that was about 115 years ago. I think we've become more shy about going on impressions. And they probably hadn't seen anything yet.

[Richard Sherwin]

Tornados are averaging over 1000 per year in the US, compared to 300 in the 50's. Two or three weeks ago there was a news story that stated that weather is getting worse world wide, just as has been predicted.

The Catholic church is gaining more and more power in the US and world, just as has been predicted. And yes I know there are those who don't believe that the papacy has any role in prophesy. People can believe what they wish.

I have no idea if Christ is coming back next year or 50 years from now, but there are things happening that have been predicted, prophesy is being fulfilled. But we as Christians are ignoring the signs. So be it.

This Aventist outlook was normal regarding "signs" in the late 1800's...

The day of test and purification is just upon us. Signs of a most startling character appear, in floods, in hurricanes, in tornadoes, in cloudbursts, in casualties by land and by sea, that proclaim the approach of the end of all things. The judgments of God are falling on the world, that men may be awakened to the fact that Christ will come speedily (RH Nov. 8, 1892). {7BC 950.5}

...and that was about 115 years ago. I think we've become more shy about going on impressions. And they probably hadn't seen anything yet.