Is The Cure Worse, than the sickness? Options

[mystery- man]

For the last however many years there have been heated discussions about Danny Shelton and 3abn. This has covered a host of others including Tommy Shelton and Linda Shelton. It's gone on and on to the point of lawsuits and threatened lawsuits, accounts of child molestation, IRS cheating, wrongful firings, mental illness, etc etc. It's getting to the point that there is no longer any point. We've had defenders and accusers attacking each other all over the internet and in court, but at least not yet in the nations news rooms. Not yet.

My questions is at what point has the medicine and the dispensing of it become worse for the church than the illness? Or has it already? Is there ever a point when both sides need to just come together as Christians, lay down their swords and get on with the work of spreading the gospel. Is the cure killing us instead of the sickness?

The anonymous nature of the internet has done much harm in these discussion. I expect that if it was required that everyone post under their own names there would be much less posting and the posts would be much more civil and Christ like. If the people who post knew who they were talking to maybe a bit more love and a bit less hatred would show through. The animosity shown to each other on these and countless other boards is not of Christ.

Maybe the time has come when we need to, with the Holy Spirit leading begin the process of turning our swords into plowshares. It's time to get on with the mission of being fishermen, not assassins.

I personally dont think that exposing Danny and the like is as bad as sweeping it under the rug. However, I do believe there comes a time when you have spoken enough for the reasonable person to understand what is going on if they want to, I believe we have reached that point. Most individuals have chosen to either turn a blind eye or stick there head in the sand or except what is happen. On the other hand others have excepted the fact that there is a denomination that plans to do nothing about what has happen and continue to operate as though the end justifies the means.

I thank Calvin for allowing us the freedom to discuss what has gone on there, even though he has to be sick of it by now. I am not trying to speak for him either, that is just a guess. At some point we will have to move on and leave it in the hand of the Lord, He is not dead. I at no point will try and blame individuals for wanting to see justice, and I can understand the pain that they feel. But I would hope that at one point people would let it go and move on (watch and see what the Lord will do). Experience has showed me and taught me that in the end God deals justley with individuals sometime because they eventually repent shows mercy and kindness that makes me marvel and have hope for myself and sometimes dealing justice in this life to the unrepented soul.

[Clay]

We do tend to get OT do we not? Thanks for the post. My reply:

Is the battle worth the slaughter? Even if the critics win (whatever that means) is the gain worth the carnage that has been left on the field of battle? A year or two ago I would have said yes, but as the battle has waged on it seems that the whole point of this war has been lost in the rush to belittle, hurt and crush by unethical tactics, threats, rumors etc. It seems like maybe the time has come to make peace and let bygones be bygones.

good points Richard and good thread.... I think that closure whatever it looks like will not satisfactory for some, and the victory whatever that is will be a hollow one.... but that's just me...

[Richard Sherwin]

Thanks PB. You have said what I was trying to, only much better. I especially like your last sentence:

We said we were here looking for truth. Somewhere back a fur piece we took a wrong turn.

That sums it up. We turned when the personal attacks started, and not very many of us can plead innocent. Certainly not me.

Absolutely not! There was a period of time when I thought some great good was going to come out of this exercise. Providing an opportunity for Duane Clem to finally break out of the denial he had been living under was a victory, IMO. Bob Pickle was instrumental in providing Duane that opportunity. I pray that he will continue on the journey to complete recovery that is fully possible through God's strength.

But something happened. Was it desperation or a lack of faith in God's power to fight the battle that led to the tossing out of principle, to the embracing of the ends justifies the means strategy? Or was that always the plan and I just didn't see it for a time? Sadly, a few lined up behind this battle plan, even encouraged it, and we were quickly seeing the shift from any semblance of looking for the truth to a calculated seeking of who next to destroy.

Richard, I was thrilled to see your "Aha!" moment this weekend, and then I was so proud of your statement at the beginning of this thread.

There are questions that need to be settled. I'm not talking about the whether or not the divorce was biblical. If Linda was truly betrayed by her husband, she may have to wait with the rest of us who have been unjustly maligned for vindication when all things are made plain in heaven. Marriages fail, and that's sad. People lie about things, and that's also sad. There are government agencies that can deal with financial malfeasance if, indeed, it has gone on. Perhaps this lawsuit will bring some clarity.

What needed to be settled and likely now won't be are the questions of abuse. Are there truly victims of pastoral abuse out there and was their abuse covered up by the alleged abuser's kin? After so much spin and manipulation, I'm afraid that the only ones who can now know that answer for sure are those who have alleged the abuse, the one who is alleged to be an abuser and God. Now, there is little hope that Tommy Shelton will be either fully vindicated as an innocent, maligned man or be shown to be a predator. This is the real defeat in this whole mess.

As time has passed, it has been revealed that many who are engaging in this controversy have axes to grind. Some are completely apparent, others are known only to those who happen to know the identities and connections of some of the key players.

We said we were here looking for truth. Somewhere back a fur piece we took a wrong turn.

[Pickle]

I had heard that the blue laws were on their way out of this country, although a few still remained for some reason, but this article in wikipedia brings us a little more up to date.

Someone wrote the Review in the early 1880's (maybe late 1870's) I think about this very thing. Things were getting lax.

Uriah Smith pointed out in reply that you could expect things to get lax in order to bring about a reaction which would bring in Sunday laws.

By 1888 we had oppressive laws in Arkansas and Tennessee, and a Sunday law bill before the U.S. Congress.

We'll see how things develop this time around.

[Pickle]

Closure and resolution will of course require an end to the lawsuit, and I think both sides realize that.

[Clay]

Someone wrote the Review in the early 1880's (maybe late 1870's) I think about this very thing. Things were getting lax.

Uriah Smith pointed out in reply that you could expect things to get lax in order to bring about a reaction which would bring in Sunday laws.

By 1888 we had oppressive laws in Arkansas and Tennessee, and a Sunday law bill before the U.S. Congress.

We'll see how things develop this time around.

the typical blue laws have been repealed when they are reviewed.... as someone stated earlier, we spend an inordinate amount of time crying wolf or hoping that things will line up in just the exact way so that we can say "We were right!!!! We told you!!!!" In the meantime, people are still being exposed to injustice and lack of compassion, are we pursuing justice and compassion for them as vigorously as we are hoping our prophetic interpretations are correct?

[Clay]

Closure and resolution will of course require an end to the lawsuit, and I think both sides realize that.

I think you are optimistic.....overly so...

[calvin]

I echo much of what has been said. To continue rehashing the same themes, more dramatized Danny stories, pleas for Danny's repentance, and lawsuits played to public opinion after 4 years of this serves no good purpose. I am very content to leave in the Lord’s hands; He does not need my help to bring closure, which we may never see to any of our satisfaction. That is Calvin the member speaking.

As far as Calvin the Administrator; I try not to let my personal likes and dislike influence my decision on what should be discussed on BSDA, within reason of the guidelines I have set. BSDA would be a dull place if we only could discuss what is important to me. Since some of you have asked, the 3abn forum will remain open for the immediate future. Keep in mind that BSDA is my hobby, is what I do for fun. When it starts to get too much like work that is when I pull in the reigns like I did recently by shutting it down for awhile. For the longer term outlook of 3abn on BSDA I always saw it as temporary and not a permanent fixture here. I prefer it to let it die out like any discussion for lack of interest. But if the noise level gets to high and the discussion too contentious, you know more like work than fun, I have no problem shutting it down permanently.

[Observer]

I echo much of what has been said. To continue rehashing the same themes, more dramatized Danny stories, pleas for Danny's repentance, and lawsuits played to public opinion after 4 years of this serves no good purpose. I am very content to leave in the Lord’s hands; He does not need my help to bring closure, which we may never see to any of our satisfaction. That is Calvin the member speaking.

As far as Calvin the Administrator; I try not to let my personal likes and dislike influence my decision on what should be discussed on BSDA, within reason of the guidelines I have set. BSDA would be a dull place if we only could discuss what is important to me. Since some of you have asked, the 3abn forum will remain open for the immediate future. Keep in mind that BSDA is my hobby, is what I do for fun. When it starts to get too much like work that is when I pull in the reigns like I did recently by shutting it down for awhile. For the longer term outlook of 3abn on BSDA I always saw it as temporary and not a permanent fixture here. I prefer it to let it die out like any discussion for lack of interest. But if the noise level gets to high and the discussion too contentious, you know more like work than fun, I have no problem shutting it down permanently.

Some thinking of mine:

There are some issues that have been gone over so many times with neither agreement nor resolution that I personally think that it is not productive to continue to discuss them. But, that is just my personal thinking.

There are other issues that I beleive are tangential, off the main focus, and a dervision of valuable time an effort to discuss. Again, that is just my personal thinking.

In any case, for reasons of the above I do not respond to some issues and posts. Some stuff which is in litigation will simplly have to wait for the courts to resolve. In the mean time, any comments that I might make on those contributes nothing.

However, and here comes the "but." This forum, and the others does serve some value:

1) It serves as a medium for the opposing sides to communicate. On a surface level one might think that there is little of value in the discussions tha take place. On a strategic level I will suggest, without explaination, that there is great vaule in the discussions that take place.

NOTE: As a U.S. Army officer I early leaarned the valut to talking to one's enemy. I do not want to call those who oppese the positions that I have taken as my enemies. I will simply say that I see value in what may seem to accompllish nothing.

2) This forum serves as a place where developing news may be given to the pubic. It may be that nothing is happening outside of the litigation and that is going slowly. From time to time something happens. It is of value to make that available to those who are interested.

3) The above is true in regard to events that happen at 3-ABN and in the lives of the people involved on both sides.

The above are three major reasons why I consider this forum to be of value and would not want it shut down.

NOTE: While I could have given specific examples for # 1, I have refrained from doing so as giving such might have laid me open to the charge of bias. Also, I did not want to open up discussisons on my examples.

[Pickle]

In the meantime, people are still being exposed to injustice and lack of compassion, are we pursuing justice and compassion for them as vigorously as we are hoping our prophetic interpretations are correct?

Some are, some aren't.

[Pickle]

I think you are optimistic.....overly so...

Overly optimistic that both sides realize that, or overly optimistic that closure requires an end to the lawsuit?

[Clay]

Overly optimistic that both sides realize that, or overly optimistic that closure requires an end to the lawsuit?

both.....

[Pickle]

Okay.

I think it is readily apparent to the parties in the lawsuit that there can't be closure for them until the lawsuit is over, since the very nature of a lawsuit prevents that. For everyone else, it's a different matter.

[Johann]

and rational thought seems to evaporate.

and some feel their own thoughts are the most rational of all.

[Richard Sherwin]

Does it mean anything that the defenders of Danny have not posted on this thread?