Where Is Brenda?, Will Brenda not be the main witness against Linda? Options

[Pickle]

I believe ...

Hearsay?

... Johann that you have started all these sites and all these lies because you have been fed wrong information.

Did Danny give wrong information when he wrote to Linda about counting donations of horses as cash?

Did Danny give wrong information when he signed the deeds of September 25, and October 2, 1998, whereby he bought a house from 3ABN for $6,139 and sold it one week later for $135,000?

Did Danny give wrong information when he wrote Linda almost a month after the divorce and said "if" she hadn't already committed adultery?

Did Danny give wrong information when he wrote me that he would not disclose anything more about his royalties until maybe after the settlement, thus indicating that he was trying to hide what he made off the TCTR book?

[Green Cochoa]

as others have pointed out... sin is sin.... there are no degrees of sin.... except in adventism where we seem to think that sexual sins are worse than others.... they are not.....

we are not talking about prison, we are discussing sin..... and yes if there is sin, they are all in the same category....

You're not trying to say that the book "Steps to Christ" is un-inspired, are you? It just so happens to be one of my favorite books for leading me to Christ.

God does not regard all sins as of equal magnitude; there are degrees of guilt in His estimation, as well as in that of man; but however trifling this or that wrong act may seem in the eyes of men, no sin is small in the sight of God. Man's judgment is partial, imperfect; but God estimates all things as they really are. The drunkard is despised and is told that his sin will exclude him from heaven; while pride, selfishness, and covetousness too often go unrebuked. But these are sins that are especially offensive to God; for they are contrary to the benevolence of His character, to that unselfish love which is the very atmosphere of the unfallen universe. He who falls into some of the grosser sins may feel a sense of his shame and poverty and his need of the grace of Christ; but pride feels no need, and so it closes the heart against Christ and the infinite blessings He came to give. {SC 30.1}
[Steps to Christ (1892, 1893)]

I am one who certainly concurs with the part I bolded up there. I don't know about you, but if it were someone close to me, I'd much rather find out the sin was that of intemperance in not sleeping enough, than that of immorality, child abuse, or murder. How about you?

Yes, sin is sin. All sin is bad. It's like that old adage: "A barrel of sewage with one tablespoon of wine is sewage; a barrel of wine with one tablespoon of sewage is sewage." But which kind of "sewage" would you rather drink, if faced with such?

To me it is rather comforting that God does not see all sins as of equal magnitude. But one sin that I am often aware of as a possibility, and it concerns me, is probably one of those sins a huge majority of Christians never even consider: the sin of lost opportunity. As the Bible says: "To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

Blessings,

Greenie.

[Clay]

You're not trying to say that the book "Steps to Christ" is un-inspired, are you? It just so happens to be one of my favorite books for leading me to Christ.
I am one who certainly concurs with the part I bolded up there. I don't know about you, but if it were someone close to me, I'd much rather find out the sin was that of intemperance in not sleeping enough, than that of immorality, child abuse, or murder. How about you?

Yes, sin is sin. All sin is bad. It's like that old adage: "A barrel of sewage with one tablespoon of wine is sewage; a barrel of wine with one tablespoon of sewage is sewage." But which kind of "sewage" would you rather drink, if faced with such?

To me it is rather comforting that God does not see all sins as of equal magnitude. But one sin that I am often aware of as a possibility, and it concerns me, is probably one of those sins a huge majority of Christians never even consider: the sin of lost opportunity. As the Bible says: "To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

Blessings,

Greenie.

that is not what the bible suggests Greenie.... unlike you I don't worship egw nor do I believe she speaks for God..... now sin is sin.... or its not... you spin it whatever way you wish....

[Pickle]

The Seventh-day Adventist Church does not worship Ellen White, but does take the position that she had the gift of prophecy, and thus delivered His messages through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. But not all our members are with the program.

[Clay]

The Seventh-day Adventist Church does not worship Ellen White, but does take the position that she had the gift of prophecy, and thus delivered His messages through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. But not all our members are with the program.

nope some of our members worship her....

[Green Cochoa]

that is not what the bible suggests Greenie.... unlike you I don't worship egw nor do I believe she speaks for God..... now sin is sin.... or its not... you spin it whatever way you wish....

Clay! I don't worship Matthew, but he wrote words from one I DO worship, and said words were inspired. Does this mean it's "wrong" simply because it wasn't said to me by the voice of God Himself, in face-to-face contact with me?!!! Hardly.

With Ellen White, the situation is the same. Her words were inspired by the Same God--the One who does not change (Mal. 3:6). However, your assertion that it is not mentioned in the Bible regarding degrees of guilt/sin is dependent only upon your ignorance of the same.

First, let us establish one thing:

Sins are countable/quantifiable. One person may have more sins to his account than another. If this were not the case, we could easily dispel such theories as the fact that the sins of the world caused Christ's death--for the tremendous weight of them all.

How do you interpret the parable of the two debtors? Why are their debts so "unequal"?

If the quantity of sins never made any difference, if sins were not quantifiable, but more like a simple stain which you either have, or have not, then you can only be stained so much. If you can only be either negative or positive, and no amount of sin will cause you to be more negative...then we are all at the same level.

IF the above paragraph were true, then the following is a curse upon all of us:

Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. (John 9:31, KJV)

Clay, will your God hear you if you call on Him? (consider this a rhetorical question) Because, if all men are sinners--which we know to be true from Rom. 3:23--AND "IF" all sinners are equally sinful, then God will not hear any of us. What a pity that would be!

Well, now to quote my Savior--the one I worship:

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. (Matthew 12:31, KJV)

If all sins are equal, then it is perfectly illogical for there to be any distinguishment between the two mentioned above.

Quoting my Savior again:

Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. (John 19:11, KJV)

Jesus makes an obvious reference to a degree of guilt here. There ARE degrees of sin. It is Biblical. If it were not, why were some sins punished by fine, or payment to the judges, while other sins required imprisonment, and still others, death?

Blessings,

Greenie.

[Clay]

nice spin Greenie... I realize your response was rhetorical..... have a nice evening.....

[Green Cochoa]

nice spin Greenie... I realize your response was rhetorical..... have a nice evening.....

Clay, at least we have established that indeed the Bible does suggest degrees of sin.

From my own human/sinful perspective, I can see great value in having said degrees. If it were not so, then, for example, every time I lusted in my heart after something, and Jesus clearly taught the lustful thought is already sin, then I might as well go ahead and follow it up with the action I had dreamed of--since the sin is the same, right? I mean, wouldn't that seem a little harsh to you to be charged with the same degree of sinfulness for something you had actually resisted carrying out in action? Would that not be harsh to have incurred the guilt without the actual "enjoyment" of the sinful act?

I don't know about you, but I would rather have someone "think" about murdering me, than to have them actually "do" it.

Blessings,

Greenie.

[Richard Sherwin]

On this earth different sins sure can have different degrees of results, some much worse than another's. That is undeniable.

[Clay]

Clay, at least we have established that indeed the Bible does suggest degrees of sin.

From my own human/sinful perspective, I can see great value in having said degrees. If it were not so, then, for example, every time I lusted in my heart after something, and Jesus clearly taught the lustful thought is already sin, then I might as well go ahead and follow it up with the action I had dreamed of--since the sin is the same, right? I mean, wouldn't that seem a little harsh to you to be charged with the same degree of sinfulness for something you had actually resisted carrying out in action? Would that not be harsh to have incurred the guilt without the actual "enjoyment" of the sinful act?

I don't know about you, but I would rather have someone "think" about murdering me, than to have them actually "do" it.

Blessings,

Greenie.

no we have not established anything... that is what you believe, I don't share your belief...... the bible says the wages of sin is death.... doesn't sound like there are degrees at all... but you are free to believe what you wish....

[Clay]

On this earth different sins sure can have different degrees of results, some much worse than another's. That is undeniable.

that may be true, but the wages of sin is still death...

[princessdi]

Ok, so all of you know that the "degrees" of sin came fron Dante's Inferno and not the Bible. Dant's lowest level(9th) was betrayal. When Christ returns there will be no 'degreed" rewards or punishment. You are either going or you are not. That doesnt' sound like Jesus is working with degrees to me.

[Richard Sherwin]

Really? I thought we were saved by grace

that may be true, but the wages of sin is still death...

[inga]

that [that all sins are not equal] is not what the bible suggests Greenie.... unlike you I don't worship egw nor do I believe she speaks for God..... now sin is sin.... or its not... you spin it whatever way you wish....

How, then, do you interpret these texts:

"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death." (1 Jn. 5:16, 17) [words of John the Beloved]

"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. (Matthew 12:31, KJV)" [words of Jesus]

"therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin." (John 19:11, KJV) [words of Jesus]

This post has been edited by inga: Feb 10 2008, 12:08 AM

[Green Cochoa]

no we have not established anything... that is what you believe, I don't share your belief...... the bible says the wages of sin is death.... doesn't sound like there are degrees at all... but you are free to believe what you wish....

that may be true, but the wages of sin is still death...

Ok, so all of you know that the "degrees" of sin came fron Dante's Inferno and not the Bible. Dant's lowest level(9th) was betrayal. When Christ returns there will be no 'degreed" rewards or punishment. You are either going or you are not. That doesnt' sound like Jesus is working with degrees to me.

I won't accept Dante as the source of the idea. First, King Solomon, considered the wisest man on earth, wrote that there is no new thing under the sun. Second, I have ample evidence of various degrees of sin and sinfulness being spoken of in the Bible as well as Ellen White. Third, I have never even heard of Dante--I got the concept from the Bible.

You two are on a different topic somehow. No one ever said the wages of sin was anything other than death. It is true that death is death, without degree. It is also true that not everyone will die, in spite of everyone having been a sinner....why is that?

(Might it not be a little bit MORE sinful to have had pride, and to have been too stubborn to confess and repent of it, than to have had pride, but to have asked forgiveness and received God's salvation by faith in His grace?)

And, back to a previous question, why is there a judgment, if, as you believe, sin is sin without degree? What is the purpose of "weighing in the balances"?

Blessings,

Greenie.