Rumors, Lies, & False Accusations Travel With Joy, Confronting AT and Gailon with Truth Options

[PrincessDrRe]

....Molestation ain't nuthin' to play with. If you know that someone has molested, and you still let them work with children, and expose other children to them....

You are just as guilty if....if said person molests again. It's like an accessory charge.

If you are truly not a molester then it will come out in the wash...I however believe the opposite to be true as well. If you are a molester then it will come out in the wash.

Only one difference in the wash. One wash will be very clean and the other will be quite dirty.

[justice4jesus]

That's fine PB, I respect your concern here, and can agree with your feelings but disagree with how and who you apply it to.

But none of that changes the fact that Tommy Shelton has been accused of Child molestation, repeatedly. And 3ABN has repeatedly been accused of covering that up and endangering children.

And that is a lie, that repeated accusation has never been proved to have any merit, and arguments about, or by, or with Duane Clem will never prove that.

Blessings--

Have you any proof that the accusations against Tommy have no merit? No, you do not. Do any of his accusers have evidence that Tommy is guilty? Let's just say that sworn testimony is going to carry an awful lot of weight in a court of law. Besides that, I know several of the accusers personally, and I can tell you beyond all doubt that this is not something that they would make up. I KNOW these people!

Actually, it should be Danny, and not 3ABN as a whole, who is accused of covering up the allegations. Did not Walt Thompson himself declare that Danny had told him that the allegations were "30 years old", when in truth, the more recent accusations had come forth only months before? (That's documented, by the way.) That's a cover-up! If you are saying that Danny did not do this, then you are calling Walt Thompson a liar. Where does it end with you people?

I believe in my heart of hearts that Danny's problem is not the people involved or the folks who have been hurt, but that it is the fact that his "fall from grace" is imminent. What is going to happen when the whole thing hits the fan? How late is too late to say "I'm sorry"?

Some have said that this battle can be likened to David and Goliath. I would agree. Of course, we all know how that one ended up! The larger and "more powerful" is not always the victor.

[PrincessDrRe]

...and besides....what of a "30 year old" allegation of sexual abuse. Whether it happened 30 years ago or 3 years ago molestation is molestation is molestation. Yes there is a "limitation" on the law of prosecution - but there is no "limitation" on right vs. wrong.....

[ex3ABNemployee]

...and besides....what of a "30 year old" allegation of sexual abuse. Whether it happened 30 years ago or 3 years ago molestation is molestation is molestation. Yes there is a "limitation" on the law of prosecution - but there is no "limitation" on right vs. wrong.....

And that's the bottom line. We keep hearing about how charges were never filed, etc. That totally misses the point.

[Seraphim7]

...and besides....what of a "30 year old" allegation of sexual abuse. Whether it happened 30 years ago or 3 years ago molestation is molestation is molestation. Yes there is a "limitation" on the law of prosecution - but there is no "limitation" on right vs. wrong.....

If certain behaviors have not be put into check and corrected those behavior will continue. As long as there is no genuine desire to correct said behavior should anyone assume that such behavior has changed? What of other victims, if any, since then? 20, 10, 5 or even one year ago?

[justice4jesus]

...and besides....what of a "30 year old" allegation of sexual abuse. Whether it happened 30 years ago or 3 years ago molestation is molestation is molestation. Yes there is a "limitation" on the law of prosecution - but there is no "limitation" on right vs. wrong.....

Actually, I intended to come back and pick that point up later in my post, and it slipped my mind. Of course, in my case, it doesn't have much to stand on!

Nice catch, PrincessDrRe! Thanks for picking up on that.


J4J

[Ian]

Ok, let's approach this from another angle...

Why do we need to do that Duane? Didn't you just read my post where I said:

But none of that changes the fact that Tommy Shelton has been accused of Child molestation, repeatedly. And 3ABN has repeatedly been accused of covering that up and endangering children.

And that is a lie, that repeated accusation has never been proved to have any merit, and arguments about, or by, or with Duane Clem will never prove that.

I have an email from Tommy where he admits he did some inappropriate things to me and said it was all his fault. You even said in a previous post that there was an "inappropriate relationship." No one seems to deny that.

That's true, I haven't seen anybody deny that. Certainly I haven't. FYI, I believe TS was dead wrong in what he did with you. But I also know that if you'd supplied your letter back to him, it would do much to dispel that notion that only he had any guilt which you are presenting.

I also know he repented, took responsibility, gave up his ministerial liscence, and went into counselling, and that you never have... And despite you saying he never hurt you and there was nothing to forgive in private, and then saying publically that you have forgiven him, your posts here indicate the opposite to me. I don't think that is healthy, I believe you need help.

But really Duane I have no personal dog in this fight. My only real interest in the two of you and your situation ( which is NOT pedophilia nor child molestation) is that truth and justice be served. Whether you accept it or not, I care about both you and Tommy...

Just last night minutes before Calvin posted the subpeona he received with your name on it, you were appearing to complain about not being named or served before that. Well now you have been...

Are you forgetting that I didn't come forward until AFTER other victims did? Some accounts were on this forum and save3abn.com, some were years ago at the Ezra church. Yet, Tommy admits what he did to me, and you want to say there's no proof it ever happened before.

Sorry, your argument is full of holes. I think you need to watch what you call a lie.

I have never claimed no proof of anything happening between you two exists, I have said no evidence providing proof of child molestation exists, please try and keep those two issues separate. They are NOT the same thing.

While under a umbrella of protection here, you have repeatedly claimed you know this or that, or stated you have this or that evidence, about the pedophilia, and child molestation accusations, but everytime you are asked to provide it, you have a silly, or inane excuse why you can't or won't. So I am not going to bother asking you for that here, or anymore. period.

I am content that eventually the whole truth will come out,, rather than one half from only one side, as has been done here. So, I will wait..

You should also be happy as now you can provide all that info and evidence you keep claiming you have. Good luck with that. And that's really all I have to say to you about your situation, except that I do wish and pray only the best for you.


edited to add brief clarifications as to my meaning.

This post has been edited by Ian: Mar 14 2008, 10:41 AM

[ex3ABNemployee]

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Why do we need to do that Duane? Didn't you just read my post where I said:
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That's true, I haven't seen anybody deny that. Certainly I haven't. FYI, I believe TS was dead wrong in what he did with you. But I also know that if you'd supplied your letter back to him, it would do much to dispel that notion that only he had any guilt which you are presenting.

I also know he repented, took responsibility, gave up his ministerial liscence, and went into counselling, and that you never have... And despite you saying he never hurt you and there was nothing to forgive in private, and then saying publically that you have forgiven him, your posts here indicate the opposite to me. I don't think that is healthy, I believe you need help.

But really Duane I have no personal dog in this fight. My only real interest in the two of you and your situation ( which is NOT pedophilia nor child molestation) is that truth and justice be served. Whether you accept it or not, I care about both you and Tommy...

Just last night minutes before Calvin posted the subpeona he received with your name on it, you were appearing to complain about not being named or served before that. Well now you have been...



I have never claimed no proof of anything happening between you two exists, I have said no evidence providing proof of child molestation exists, please try and keep those two issues separate. They are NOT the same thing.

While under a umbrella of protection here, you have repeatedly claimed you know this or that, or stated you have this or that evidence, about the pedophilia, and child molestation accusations, but everytime you are asked to provide it, you have a silly, or inane excuse why you can't or won't. So I am not going to bother asking you for that here, or anymore. period.

I am content that eventually the whole truth will come out,, rather than one half from only one side, as has been done here. So, I will wait..

You should also be happy as now you can provide all that info and evidence you keep claiming you have. Good luck with that. And that's really all I have to say to you about your situation, except that I do wish and pray only the best for you.


edited to add brief clarifications as to my meaning.

If you think I'm afraid to go to court you've got another think coming. The scare tactic WILL NOT WORK. If I am put on the witness stand, as you seem to be implying will happen, Danny, Tommy and 3ABN are not going to like what I have to say.

But, if that's what they really want, I'm game.

[appletree]

And that's the bottom line. We keep hearing about how charges were never filed, etc. That totally misses the point.

Right. The point was you said you wanted an apology and then you say you got one. So..what is the point?
BTW. You are correct that is doesn't matter how long ago molestation happened if it happened. What does matter, and makes a big difference to public view is the age of the person at the time the alleged molestation took place. That makes the difference between what is called "molestation" or what is viewed as consensual. Certainly consensual doesn't make it right in the eyes of God for either party, but makes a big difference when someone is trying to play the "helpless victim".

[appletree]

If you think I'm afraid to go to court you've got another think coming. The scare tactic WILL NOT WORK. If I am put on the witness stand, as you seem to be implying will happen, Danny, Tommy and 3ABN are not going to like what I have to say.

But, if that's what they really want, I'm game.

Duane please be realistic. You over estimate your part in this story to an unbelievable degree. I'm sorry. To be blunt you are not an important figure in this lawsuit. Your allegations should be taken somewhere else. You say you are doing that. Good. Better for everyone concerned.

[justice4jesus]

Duane please be realistic. You over estimate your part in this story to an unbelievable degree. I'm sorry. To be blunt you are not an important figure in this lawsuit. Your allegations should be taken somewhere else. You say you are doing that. Good. Better for everyone concerned.

I wonder, then, why anyone who is "not an important figure in this lawsuit" would be included on the subpoena. Makes me wonder how special I really am now! Since you are such a wealth of information, could you please clear that up for me and anyone else who may be wondering?

[PrincessDrRe]

You said......

Duane please be realistic. You over estimate your part in this story to an unbelievable degree. I'm sorry. To be blunt you are not an important figure in this lawsuit. Your allegations should be taken somewhere else. You say you are doing that. Good. Better for everyone concerned.

...but I also wondered......

I wonder, then, why anyone who is "not an important figure in this lawsuit" would be included on the subpoena. Makes me wonder how special I really am now! Since you are such a wealth of information, could you please clear that up for me and anyone else who may be wondering?

Normally - folks who have something of relevance or importance to a cause/action are called as witness or subpoenaed.

Now.

Which is it?

If Justice4JESUS has nothing of importance then why the subpoena? It waste time, money, and in the end brings someone into a "fight" that the other person may be unsure of the weaponry the party may bring.

In other words putting someone that is not "important" in a lawsuit opens other doors. Why open a door if you ain't gonna see what's on the other side or walk thru.

At times I do believe Appletree you don't even realize what you type before you type it.

Relevant/Relevance Defined

[princessdi]

Uh Ian, when the victim backs me up, the christian thing to do is to call sin by it's name, and pray that Tommy will be man enough one day to own up, repent and at a least apologize to ALL of his victims.

Also, this is not rocket science. If, in fact Danny hired Tommy to any job at 3ABN that exposed him to young children, in full personal knowledge of Tommy's "tendancies"(whether the law did anything or not), then he did, indeed, palce those children in harm's way. We know that Tommy worked there, we know that he molested Duane, We know that Danny was aware of this and other charges of the same type being levelled at his brother, we know there were chidlren present on the sets and campus of 3ABN. It is unexcusable for Danny to take such a chance with innocent children.

Diane it has been denied, and what you are doing is repeating a lie.

No, she is repeating what you want everyone to believe is a lie.


Only Duane had a inapropriate relationship with TS and why can't be discussed here as it's off limits, but if he gets to go to court as he seems to be saying he wants to here, it won't be... He was past legal age.

Glad someone finally admits it happened. Since Tommy was a minister, there are other factors besides legal age involved.
Do you know any young boys who were molested? Do you know any charges filed? any statements made?

I do.
No, you don't! You just know that people with an axe to grinf claim there are, as the others here do. Get outraged all you want about how bad child molestation is, and I'll agree with you, but in this case it isn't in evidence, anywhere.

How do you know there isn't evidence? You don't know that any more than we know Danny has evidence of Linda's "affair" with the doctor.

And unless you have proof to the contrary here, I think the christian thing to do right now would be to drop it.

Actually, the Christian thing would be for Tommy to be a man and admit what he did. That would go a long way in helping folks get over this.

[PeacefulBe]

Right. The point was you said you wanted an apology and then you say you got one. So..what is the point?
BTW. You are correct that is doesn't matter how long ago molestation happened if it happened. What does matter, and makes a big difference to public view is the age of the person at the time the alleged molestation took place. That makes the difference between what is called "molestation" or what is viewed as consensual. Certainly consensual doesn't make it right in the eyes of God for either party, but makes a big difference when someone is trying to play the "helpless victim".

A little over two years ago I watched the poignant 3ABN Presents Danny Shelton interview of Steve and Samantha Nelson. The couple, who used to live just 45 miles inland from my own Northern California home, told of Samantha's abuse by a pastor while they were in counseling for marital problems. She was well over the age of consent when it happened; I believe in her mid-twenties. She even thought it was consensual at the time. Then it became clear that the pastor had manipulated her into the relationship. Now, Steve and Samantha live in Thompsonville, IL and have The Hope of Survivors ministry to help other victims of pastoral abuse journey through the process of understanding and healing. They also train pastors and others to recognize and become aware of pastoral abuse.

I believe it is counterproductive to attempt to undermine Duane's credibility about his personal experience. The evidence strongly indicates he was a victim just as surely as was Samantha Nelson.

I think we all would do well to ponder if our contributions to these discussion are "right in the eyes of God".

[Ian]

Uh Ian, when the victim backs me up, the christian thing to do is to call sin by it's name, and pray that Tommy will be man enough one day to own up, repent and at a least apologize to ALL of his victims.

This is how you step over that line PrincessDi.


The fact is the victim doesn't back you up, you are backing the accuser.
Because right now all you really have is an accuser and the accused, and no personal knowledge about it.

Declaring someone a victim, and declaring the other guily and then adding he has tendencies toward "children" and is in need of repentance and apologising to "all of his victims" is a bit premature, and is a far sweeping condenation without proof..

Something to think about..

But I've said all I am going to say here, because issues of abuse are often way too emotionally charged. People get way too personally involved here, because of their own issues to be able to be objective and look at or consider things objectively.

To be blunt I don't have the energy to deal with all that involves right now.

Have a good Sabbath tomorrow.