Subpoena Issued To Calvin Eakins, To give a depostion and provide information on BSDA members Options

[Fran]

First of all. No one is attempting to hijack this thread, but you.... ( and Eduard)

Please start another thread.

2nd:

You are greatly exagerating your status.

Why do you perist in thinking that you know more then all the financial officers, the auditors, and IRS agents involved, and keep repeating what has been hashed and rehashed?

Surely you and others can realize that they have more documents and facts then you to deal with and consider, and are doing so?

You reported what you think, so good and well, let them now deal with it, and let the chips fall where they may...

Make sense?

If this is true, take my name off the hit list!

[ex3ABNemployee]

If this is true, take my name off the hit list!

Well, Fran, that makes 2 unimportant people so far on the list!

And as far as all this talk goes about the lawyers choosing the names without Danny's knowledge, do you really expect us to believe that? Everyone who knows Danny knows how he must has complete control over everything. Now you want to tell us that he has turned total control of this case over to a law firm?

If it is actually true, then maybe it's time to check in to getting more competent legal counsel. According to the all-knowing Appletree, there are at least two of us on the list who aren't important to the case.

[PrincessDrRe]

See what happens when you jet out for the Sabbis? So now I see another "unimportant" party has been added to the "unimportant" list?

This is a waste of time and money. Two unimportant/unnecessary folks on a subpoena. This just gets sillier and sillier....

[Dona]

See what happens when you jet out for the Sabbis? So now I see another "unimportant" party has been added to the "unimportant" list?

This is a waste of time and money. Two unimportant/unnecessary folks on a subpoena. This just gets sillier and sillier....

If you consider this a waste of money then consider this: All of us pay the IRS and it is our money that is being spent to investigate 3ABN, and it is based upon an individual/s who took it upon themselves to start it. Should the investigation never come to court then money, time and energy was spent for naught and the people of the US used. It is my opinion that the money spent should be then charged against those who pressed it. Maybe that would set a great precident to all who would try to use us and the government for a personal agenda in the future.

Dona

[Ian]

Well,
Fran, that makes 2 unimportant people so far on the list!And as far as
all this talk goes about the lawyers choosing the names without Danny's
knowledge, do you really expect us to believe that? Everyone who knows Danny
knows how he must has complete control over everything. Now you want to tell us
that he has turned total control of this case over to a law firm? If
it is actually true, then maybe it's time to check in to getting more competent
legal counsel.

1.)

Is it really too much to expect common sense and reason here?

The point is when a case is filed the overall strategy and plan is discussed between the Lawyers and the clients and agreed and understood, then the lawyers proceed with that plan.... So did DS and 3ABN know that eventually subpeonas would be issued? No doubt. But this doesn't mean each little part has to be cleared again with Danny and or 3ABN before proceeding with it, although I am sure they get informed with progress reports when different actions and steps are followed through on.

It has been pointed out to posters here for a long time both here and on other forums that the
legal counsel and their experts have been monitoring these forums discussions. You all know about the lawsuit. Now they have come up with a lists of name on subpeonas. Why are so many acting suprized and outraged here? It should have been expected.

Why are people thinking it's threats and intimidation, when it is being done right now, not just being talked about? That makes no sense to me. What did you all really expect to happen?

What isn't being understood is that you all may think your name or address may be known or not known, and maybe they are. but anyone can claim to be, or not be anyone on the internet. A case is being made, and it is necessary to prove what is claimed. It is not enough to go to court and say Duane Clem, or even a swiss miss, or ex-wife said such and such, it needs to be proven that they are actually the ones who said that, as quoted. Thus registries and Ip #s.

Doesn't that make sense?

According to the all-knowing Appletree, there are at least two of us on the list who aren't important to the case.

2.)

For clarification purposes. Here is what was said: "You are greatly exagerating your status."

It was me who made that comment which Fran was replying to and you are commenting on, not Appletree. Further, I was not even speaking of the subpeona, nor the lawsuit.

I was speaking first to her penchant for thinking she's well known, and like EF Hutton; when she speaks,and posts everybody listens, and 3ABN spins on a dime to accommodate her wishes or criticisms, or demands.

The reality is she is just one name in a list of posters in the discovery process, according to 3ABN's lawyers and forensic experts in the lawsuit filed by 3ABN.

Specifically,I was referring to this comment by her, in her post above:

"I was all for Danny! I was! I even called and told Mom Ford to tell Danny to stop pouting and get out there in front of the camera, NOW! And that is exactly what he did."

I was referring to that in the context of the many claims she's posted just like that.

Here's another recent example:

Fran:"Not until I told everyone on Club Adventist did 3ABN change the way
they did business with eBay. You were there. Tell me all about that.Why
did 3ABN change their name for the eBay gift shop repeatedly to drop off those
evil transactions? You were hot and heavy with those changes ... until I
announced it on Club Adventist! Then boom, you stopped. You succeeded in
dropping a lot of the feedback, but way too late! When I mentioned that you did
not use the benefits of PayPal reporting, you started using PayPal and your
credit card machines."

AT: Myself nor anyone aquainted with the ebay program have a clue what you are talking about. As I stated before, that program had to develope and learn along the way and made changes accordingly. Do you honestly think that they added or subtracted policies according to remarks you made on
some forum? You must think quite highly of yourself.

Fran:"Oh yes, I do know it is true! Why do you think I went silent? I don't have stupid written
all over my face!"

AT:For all anyone at 3abn knows you are a patient in a mental hospital or a prison inmate that is studying finance. On that platform do you think your opinion would actually affect anything at all?

Fran:"You know exactly who and where I am. Don't be coy."
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...mp;#entry240327

She even claims, with zero evidence, or motive (as she only has documents which are already publically available) that 3ABN hacked her computer...


In my opinion she sounds like she is delusional, and goes back and forth between paranoia, and
elevated feelings of grandeur. Thus my question to her:

"Why do you perist in thinking that you know more then all the financial officers, the auditors, and
IRS agents involved, and keep repeating what has been hashed and rehashed?"

and a dose of reality:

"Surely you and others can realize that they have more documents and facts then you to deal with and consider, and are doing so? You reported what you think, so good and well, let them now deal with it, and let the chips fall where they may... Make sense?"

In conclusion. anyone can read her reply to me in this thread, it's extremely rude, offbase, and just
outright wacky. Just think what you'd all say to, and about me if I posted to members here like that. I just don't get it.


edited to correct code problems

This post has been edited by Ian: Mar 16 2008, 09:07 AM

[PrincessDrRe]

Get it right or get left.....

If someone is not "important" to a lawsuit - then why are they mentioned on a subpoena? It makes no sense.

Now.

If this "lawsuit" goes through and DS/3ABN are vindicated - That would make for a surge of donations, support, and high praise throughout the land. If DS/3ABN are vindicated then the word would be spread throughout the werld that in the end DS/3ABN were right.

If this "lawsuit" goes through and DS/3ABN are proven to be in the wrong - That would make for the collapse/restructuring of the entity due to its mismanagement.

This....(lawsuits, investigations, rig-a-ma-role) has happened before. It has happened to those "of the world" and those "not of the world".

The key fact that folks keep glossing over/forgetting/pushing to the back burner is that if your nose is clean then you can take the picture. If you are worried about a bugga here or a bit of mucus there...then you don't want to show your face until you clean it up.

If your face is clean then take the picture already! If not - then get a mirror, get some tissue, clean ya nose, wash your hands and go about ya day.....but make sure you clean your nose before you go about your day....

[bonnie]

If you consider this a waste of money then consider this: All of us pay the IRS and it is our money that is being spent to investigate 3ABN, and it is based upon an individual/s who took it upon themselves to start it. Should the investigation never come to court then money, time and energy was spent for naught and the people of the US used. It is my opinion that the money spent should be then charged against those who pressed it. Maybe that would set a great precident to all who would try to use us and the government for a personal agenda in the future.

Dona

You are either incredibly naive or sending up a smake screen. Trying to blame others IF 3ABN finds themselves in the middle of ethical and legal problems with the IRS.
You can report someone as frequently as you like. NOTHING is done or acted on till you have something concrete to offer.
That means you present proof of what you are saying. Without that there is no investigation. They cannot possibly go on a fishing expedition on complaints they receive and hope they find something. They see a fish before they go fishing.

Blaming others for a investigation of this sort is only trying to shift the focus on someone else.

Brings Linda Tripp to mind. No one, or very few cared what Clinton had done, admitted to finally after lying under oath. Linda Tripp was the real problem.

Perhaps if there are legal irregularities found then 3ABN should pay the salaries and cost of the investigation besides penalties that apply, and whatever else.

You can try to use the governemnt for your own agenda I suppose, but before you are sucessful, that agenda has to have some pretty detailed papaer trails

[Green Cochoa]

If you consider this a waste of money then consider this: All of us pay the IRS and it is our money that is being spent to investigate 3ABN, and it is based upon an individual/s who took it upon themselves to start it. Should the investigation never come to court then money, time and energy was spent for naught and the people of the US used. It is my opinion that the money spent should be then charged against those who pressed it. Maybe that would set a great precident to all who would try to use us and the government for a personal agenda in the future.

Dona

The only "personal agenda" I see in the subpoena happens to be no great precedent. It seems, as you have intimated here, that the "agenda" might have something to do with the fact that certain ones would like to exact revenge against those whom they fear have called the IRS, which action is alleged to have instigated the investigation. It is no great precedent-setting event for people to desire revenge against the whistleblowers, when in fact it is their own misdeeds which have gotten them into trouble.

"Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith _______." You remember whose name fills the blank?

Blessings,

Greenie.

[Observer]

1.)

What isn't being understood is that you all may think your name or address may be known or not known, and maybe they are. but anyone can claim to be, or not be anyone on the internet. A case is being made, and it is necessary to prove what is claimed. It is not enough to go to court and say Duane Clem, or even a swiss miss, or ex-wife said such and such, it needs to be proven that they are actually the ones who said that, as quoted. Thus registries and Ip #s.

O.K. I will add to the speculation as to why 3-ABN have named the various people in the respective subponeas:

1) There may be people, very few I think, whom they would like to litigate against. So they are attempting to identify them so that they can serve them with notice of a lawsuit.

2) They may wish to know if certain people are posting under another penname. E.g. They may want to konw if I am posting under the penname of"Sister.?" NOTE: Comment made to illustrarte a point.

3) There may be people whom they wish to depose. To do this then need to identify them in order to serve them. The act of deposing a person does not mean that they intend to litigate against them. I may simply mean that they believe that the person whom they wish to depose has information that they need. So, they wish to obtain it. E.G They may wish to ask Johann if he obtained certain information from Linda, what and when?

4) They may wish to question a person as to the factual basis for a post that the person made.

I can think of any number of reasons why they would wish to depose a noumber of the people who have posted here in BSDA and in other forums. I Fully expect that a number of those people will have legal orders issued that require the to respond to questions raised by the 3-ABN Attornies. Be prepared for it. Determine waht you are wiling to spend in legal fees. BE prepared. It is comming. But, it does notmean that every person is in p;otential legal harm.

By the way, do not think that the so-called "Freedom of the press" is an absolute bar against you being required to provide information.


Some of you will either give information, or face Contempt of Court isseus.

IF this means that you need the services of a competent attorney, consider it.

NOTE: Here is something to consider as you lthilnk as to whetehr or not you need an attorney:

1) If you believe that you may become a defendent in litigation, do not walk, run to an attorney and seek competent advice now.

2) If you believe that you will not become a defendent, but may be requrired to give informaiton, youy may need to consult with an attorney in regard to whast questions you will be required to answer, and how you should respond.

3) If you do not want your confidential information to be released to 3-ABN, seek competent legal advice.

4) If you want to prote4ct your estate and propertyl, seek legal advice.

5) If you beleive that you are protected by your "homeowners": policy, seek legal advice.



This post has been edited by Observer: Mar 16 2008, 10:29 AM

[Ian]

You are either incredibly naive or sending up a smake screen. Trying to blame others IF 3ABN finds themselves in the middle of ethical and legal problems with the IRS.
You can report someone as frequently as you like. NOTHING is done or acted on till you have something concrete to offer.
That means you present proof of what you are saying. Without that there is no investigation. They cannot possibly go on a fishing expedition on complaints they receive and hope they find something. They see a fish before they go fishing....

Bonnie, evidence and proof are two diferennt things. Evidence may be rebutted with further evidence, proof is an absolute. That hasn't been offered by Fran, nor any other here. But, surely all of this will be more clear AFTER they conclude their investigation.

The only "personal agenda" I see in the subpoena happens to be no great precedent. It seems, as you have intimated here, that the "agenda" might have something to do with the fact that certain ones would like to exact revenge against those whom they fear have called the IRS, which action is alleged to have instigated the investigation. It is no great precedent-setting event for people to desire revenge against the whistleblowers, when in fact it is their own misdeeds which have gotten them into trouble.

"Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith _______." You remember whose name fills the blank?

Blessings,

Greenie.

Seeking justice and seeking vengeance are also two very different things...

I think we need to try to avoid assigning motives and intents to others.

This post has been edited by Ian: Mar 16 2008, 10:51 AM

[bonnie]

Bonnie, evidence and proof are two diferennt things. Evidence may be rebutted with further evidence, proof is an absolute. That hasn't been offered by Fran, nor any other here. But, surely all of this will be more clear AFTER they conclude their investigation.
Seeking justice and seeking vengeance are also two very different things...

I think we need to try to avoid assigning motives and intents to others.

Evidence of course can be rebutted. You state the obvious. What you do not state is prior to the IRS intitiating a criminal investigation it has already done some homework. They do not run off wily-niley after someone because another has produced a piece of paper or made a phone cal. There is not enough auditors or manpower to do that.

I have not followed much of this until it appeared I was to receive an "invitation" by DS and gang.
One thing that really needs explaination is the horse deal. Please spare the attempt to explain to me how this is the way things are to be done.
Living on a income producing farm for 17 years and a very extensive "Total Compliance Audit" which took 18 months says different.
During this time had a document or message or statement by me as has been released via the internet,the message by DS, I wouldn't even want to contemplate the mess I would have been in.
During a audit, unless this has changed,the IRS can go back three years. If there is credible reason and documentation to believe fraud/dishonesty was involved, they can then go back to day one of your income tax record.

It does not matter who said what first. What the liability of the other party involved in this appraisal is, I have no idea, but DS and DS alone will be accountable for any of his actions and what appears to be an attempt to circumvent the rules and putting in writing a request for someone else to participate.

I can tell you from legal advice we were given at the time. Make sure whatever you do, your answers are truthful, once caught lying or circumventing the rules for your financail gain, it is not then a simple matter of saying "OOPS, let me just pay the difference"
Many of the questions are asked with IRS already holding the answer, and it is wise to have yours match



BTW, I do not know you, but am wondering if Ian is your real name, where you can be located and can you back up your strong defense of DS and 3ABN. Many of the ones under fire do so with their name and make no attempt to hide.
If you are here anonymously defending DS I would wonder where the strength of your conviction really is, that of appletree as well.

For me to be defended by a friend that had to hide his/her identity would be offensive.

This post has been edited by bonnie: Mar 16 2008, 12:10 PM

[princessdi]

Ok, but I am still stmped as to why my name is there. They don't have to "find" me, I don't know anybody, and anything I say I qualify with being my opinion based on information presented. What is the point? I am just asking..........

O.K. I will add to the speculation as to why 3-ABN have named the various people in the respective subponeas:

1) There may be people, very few I think, whom they would like to litigate against. So they are attempting to identify them so that they can serve them with notice of a lawsuit.

2) They may wish to know if certain people are posting under another penname. E.g. They may want to konw if I am posting under the penname of"Sister.?" NOTE: Comment made to illustrarte a point.

3) There may be people whom they wish to depose. To do this then need to identify them in order to serve them. The act of deposing a person does not mean that they intend to litigate against them. I may simply mean that they believe that the person whom they wish to depose has information that they need. So, they wish to obtain it. E.G They may wish to ask Johann if he obtained certain information from Linda, what and when?

4) They may wish to question a person as to the factual basis for a post that the person made.

I can think of any number of reasons why they would wish to depose a noumber of the people who have posted here in BSDA and in other forums. I Fully expect that a number of those people will have legal orders issued that require the to respond to questions raised by the 3-ABN Attornies. Be prepared for it. Determine waht you are wiling to spend in legal fees. BE prepared. It is comming. But, it does notmean that every person is in p;otential legal harm.

By the way, do not think that the so-called "Freedom of the press" is an absolute bar against you being required to provide information.
Some of you will either give information, or face Contempt of Court isseus.

IF this means that you need the services of a competent attorney, consider it.

NOTE: Here is something to consider as you lthilnk as to whetehr or not you need an attorney:

1) If you believe that you may become a defendent in litigation, do not walk, run to an attorney and seek competent advice now.

2) If you believe that you will not become a defendent, but may be requrired to give informaiton, youy may need to consult with an attorney in regard to whast questions you will be required to answer, and how you should respond.

3) If you do not want your confidential information to be released to 3-ABN, seek competent legal advice.

4) If you want to prote4ct your estate and propertyl, seek legal advice.

5) If you beleive that you are protected by your "homeowners": policy, seek legal advice.

[Johann]

Bonnie, evidence and proof are two diferennt things. Evidence may be rebutted with further evidence, proof is an absolute. That hasn't been offered by Fran, nor any other here. But, surely all of this will be more clear AFTER they conclude their investigation.






Seeking justice and seeking vengeance are also two very different things...

I think we need to try to avoid assigning motives and intents to others.

Ian, even if I copied this section from you here, I am responding more to the whole impact of your contribution to this whole issue. The more I read of your statements - and those of Appeltree, Dona, and others - I am reminded of how one of our great teachers at Emmanuel Missionary College, Emmett Vande Vere, explained the fulfillments of the propecies of Revelation in the United States of America. This was back around 1953 - 1955. He made it clear to us that he had studied the propehecies and wondered how they could be fulfilled in the freedom-loving United States of America in relation to the commandment-keeping people of God, and how the demonic powers would attack the true church.

It looks to me like you are in details helping us to understand the fulfillment of these propehecies, as he explained it more than 50 years ago, rather the first part of the fulfillment. I encourage you to study thoroughly these propehcies so you can see how you are explaining the fulfillment of them in details, using the judicial system of your country.

When the judicial system of the United States has been exploited in this manner, then the next step in the fulfillment could take place by the government annulling the constitution, and he explained to us in details how the goverment will then be able to do that without breaking the current laws of the country and get away with it. What happens now is the preparation.

It is so important to the people of God to be aware of what is happening around them, by studying the Scriptures, and especially the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, and examine how these will be fulfilled in the United States in the throes of loosing its former international strength and power as predicted by our Lord in Scripture.

I ralize you people might reply to this in disgust, because it will require some studying and thinking to see and understand the important of this. But ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and apply yourselves to the task of knowing the will of God in your lives.

[Ian]

Ian, even if I copied this section from you here, I am responding more to the whole impact of your contribution to this whole issue. The more I read of your statements - and those of Appeltree, Dona, and others - I am reminded of how one of our great teachers at Emmanuel Missionary College, Emmett Vande Vere, explained the fulfillments of the propecies of Revelation in the United States of America. This was back around 1953 - 1955. He made it clear to us that he had studied the propehecies and wondered how they could be fulfilled in the freedom-loving United States of America in relation to the commandment-keeping people of God, and how the demonic powers would attack the true church.

It looks to me like you are in details helping us to understand the fulfillment of these propehecies, as he explained it more than 50 years ago, rather the first part of the fulfillment. I encourage you to study thoroughly these propehcies so you can see how you are explaining the fulfillment of them in details, using the judicial system of your country.

When the judicial system of the United States has been exploited in this manner, then the next step in the fulfillment could take place by the government annulling the constitution, and he explained to us in details how the goverment will then be able to do that without breaking the current laws of the country and get away with it. What happens now is the preparation.

It is so important to the people of God to be aware of what is happening around them, by studying the Scriptures, and especially the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, and examine how these will be fulfilled in the United States in the throes of loosing its former international strength and power as predicted by our Lord in Scripture.

I ralize you people might reply to this in disgust, because it will require some studying and thinking to see and understand the important of this. But ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and apply yourselves to the task of knowing the will of God in your lives.

Johann I am not going to scoff at those prophesies i have studied them in great detail and continue to, I believe in them, wholeheartedly.

But let's consider something here. There is the remnant who are described in Rev 12 as keeping the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ (identified in Rev 19:10 as the spirit of prophecy) and they are further described in Rev 14 as those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. In contrast you have the dragon (and his seed with emnity Gen 3:15) who is wroth, and at war with them, he is identified as the "accuser of the brethren"

Now of the two sides here who is teaching the gospel and spreading the three angel's messages?
Only 3ABN, most the accusers of 3ABN have problems with the very prohesies you bring up and even some of the foundational doctrines of the SDA church. Even those who don't are not here spreading the gospel, nor teaching the prophesies, .

Next who is accusing who?

well of course it is the accusers of 3ABN who are the majority of posters on these forums doing the accusing, that is what they are being sued for, NOT for their faith.


NEXT:

The prophesies you speak of talk about a religious and political union which makes and enacts laws to persecute the remnant.

3ABN is not making or enacting laws, they are not undermining the Constitution and bringing about a Union of Church and state. They are appealing to the judicial system for justice as they are being Defamed, that is a CIVIL matter, and our present laws allow that. Further as has been pointed out numerous times they are not suing for personal gain, but seeking to recover what was lost, both characterwise and financially, and those same principles are clearly found in the civil laws of Ancient Israel. And-- sorry, but those who are accusing them falsely can by no means be called "commandment keepers" Nor can that even remotely be called love.



Further, the straight testimony is to the Laodecian Church and is not what those criticizing and maligning 3ABN are doing. That does not include public attacks and anonymous accusers, who don't follow biblical principles, or face those they accuse. It doesn't include talebearing.

People who have engaged in gossip, talebearing, and lying are acting like they are being persecuted and that what they have done is righteous. It isn't. They think their rights have been violated, they aren't.

I detest this attempt to make this whole issue into the fulfillment of prophesies. All the world is not going to line up on one side or the other in regards to 3ABN.


If you disagree, so be it, I think I've said all I am going to here.

Blessings...

[inga]

Now of the two sides here who is teaching the gospel and spreading the three angel's messages?
Only 3ABN,

You are so wrong!

most the accusers of 3ABN have problems with the very prohesies you bring up and even some of the foundational doctrines of the SDA church. Even those who don't are not here spreading the gospel, nor teaching the prophesies, .

Again, you are so wrong! Bob Pickle is fairly well known in Adventist circles as a defender of Adventist prophetic interpretation as well as a defender of the ministry of Ellen White.

The principals most interested in seeing reformation at 3ABN are actually very conservative Adventists -- people who used to promote 3ABN.

Next who is accusing who?

well of course it is the accusers of 3ABN who are the majority of posters on these forums doing the accusing, that is what they are being sued for, NOT for their faith.

Again, you are so wrong! They are being sued for presenting evidence of apparent wrong-doing.If Danny Shelton and 3ABN are so sure of being right, why do they not present evidence that they are correct -- as they have been asked to do for four years!

Danny-3ABN started this mess by publicly accusing Linda of adultery over and over again -- if not in those precise words, then clearly by implication, because that's what the people watching got from it. Asked to present the evidence for this slander, they pretended they were "protecting Linda." Now that Linda has clearly, plublicly asked for the evidence to be made public, they still have no evidence to present.

It appears to bother them severely that the "other side" has evidence.

The prophesies you speak of talk about a religious and political union which makes and enacts laws to persecute the remnant.

They do more than that. You are missing the most crucial points. They present the modus operandi of Babylon and the anti-Christ. We become part of Babylon when we use the same modus operandi.

Babylon and the anti-Christ operate on force and compulsion. God never compels. He woos through love.

In the Revelation, Babylon is seen as a merchandiser --indicative of using power and wealth to control.

Now, while I wouldn't have put it quite as directly as Johann, I do believe he has a point.

We are told that every provision of the American Constitution for the freedom and safety of the people will be abrogated.

Danny-3ABN lawyers are not waiting till the actual abrogation. They are using the power of money to harass and destroy two men who dared to defy the Goliath of 3ABN power. IMO, that's a pretty clear case of using the Babylon modus operandi to compel conformity -- a preview of what's coming in world-wide format some day not so far way, it seems to me.

This post has been edited by inga: Mar 16 2008, 04:15 PM