Danny Shelton Marries....again, 3abn Options

[seeshell]

This is true, that is why I said "rarely".

That you did.

[beartrap]

For most of the membership of organized religion, their individual choices rarely involve the body as a whole. It is when individual leaders make choices to sin that is usually becomes a problem for those /under/around them.

In politics, and other areas that have leaders and followers, the leaders are viewed as people whose intellect or talent is better, therefore they are worthy of making decisions for the followers. If they mess up, they are just people and can be demoted.

In religion the leaders carry the spiritual authority of God. When they engage in less than godly behaviour, it becomes godly by virtue of the assumption that the person doing it is led of God, and their actions are carried out with God's own blessing. For this reason, intelligent people with an agenda that requires absolute, unquestioning obedience to the point that their followers will abandon logic in their eagerness to follow God, adopt religion and go forth to achieve their political, financial, or other goals under the guise of being God's servant.

This post has been edited by beartrap: May 12 2006, 10:52 PM

[seeshell]

What is scary is how willing we are to go along with aforesaid spiritual leaders without studying things out for ourselves and finding out what God says about things. Seems like we are willing to even put aside the common sense the Lord gives us that says, "Hey, something is wrong with this". Why do we need God to come down from heaven and tell us things that are already clearly explained in the Bible? Why are we more willing to accept whatever Joe Schmoe on TV tells us?

[beartrap]

Why are we more willing to accept whatever Joe Schmoe on TV tells us?

Why? Because Joe Schmoe has miracle stories, thats why. Joe Schmoe has miracles growing out of his scalp. Anyone who has this volume of miracles flowing through him must be worth listening to. Also, When Joe Schmoe is able to demonstrate that his "ministry" is very large... worldwide in fact, this, of course, reflects beyond question that God is in charge. How else could an organization grow that big? Of course TBN, EWTN, and others are bigger, but that is because they have been blessed by the devil. Their miracle stories are healing miracles, and they claim that their donors will be blessed by giving. We make no such claims. When the donors give, we are blessed by that miracle, and the donor should be grateful to have participated in the miracle that blessed us... oh, and the millions of hurting souls out there, yes, we will pray for them and preach at them while we enjoy the miracle of your money.

[princessdi]

You know Bear, I like you! LOL!! You go on and preach!

Ok so, why do we think every other successful ministry, if not SDa is "powered" by satan? Why do we not apply the text which says, "If I be lifted up, I will draw......to their ministries?

Why? Because Joe Schmoe has miracle stories, thats why. Joe Schmoe has miracles growing out of his scalp. Anyone who has this volume of miracles flowing through him must be worth listening to. Also, When Joe Schmoe is able to demonstrate that his "ministry" is very large... worldwide in fact, this, of course, reflects beyond question that God is in charge. How else could an organization grow that big? Of course TBN, EWTN, and others are bigger, but that is because they have been blessed by the devil. Their miracle stories are healing miracles, and they claim that their donors will be blessed by giving. We make no such claims. When the donors give, we are blessed by that miracle, and the donor should be grateful to have participated in the miracle that blessed us... oh, and the millions of hurting souls out there, yes, we will pray for them and preach at them while we enjoy the miracle of your money.

[Panama_Pete]

Why are we more willing to accept whatever Joe Schmoe on TV tells us?

If you watch any Joe or Josephine Schmoe (television evangelists) on Sunday morning "paid" television you will notice they have one thing in common: They claim to have a "connection" to God that is much better than yours.

Some spiritual gurus have special powers (straight from God) to heal, some get special messages straight from God regarding television viewers "out there." Others "prophesy" and have messages for each other, etc. Perhaps the Lord gave them the vision for the big project, etc.

In any case, people support gurus because they believe that the guru's connection to God is better than their own. You give the gurus your money because the gurus can make better use of it than you can.

Since miracles are evidence of this very special connection, books published documenting the many, many miracles will serve as evidence of this special connection to God - the connection you, poor soul, do not possess, apparently.

As Beartrap said, you will notice that Joe and Josephine Schmoe have miracles oozing out of their scalps.

The truth is that your connection to God is just as good as anybody else's. This is what television evangelists don't want you to understand. Once you have no need for the special connection to God that only the gurus can provide, the gurus lose their power over you and your money.

That's the purpose for books documenting miracles. Any story of any kind that leads you to believe that they're a bit more "annointed" or "blessed" than you are will work to get the dollars moving from you to them.

These miracle stories can be subtle evidences of a blessing. They can even be stories that go like this, "We've already collected one million dollars, we only need two million more to reach our goal." This is just priming the money pump.

Try not to be taken in by this "special connection" technique which is a favorite of cult leaders everywhere.

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: May 13 2006, 12:30 AM

[Clay]

which is why we need to question everything.... I am not impressed with the stories and I do not think their connection to God is greater than mine..... the same God that speaks to them can speak to me....

The days of following someone blindly should be over.....

[Johann]

which is why we need to question everything.... I am not impressed with the stories and I do not think their connection to God is greater than mine..... the same God that speaks to them can speak to me....

The days of following someone blindly should be over.....

Judging from the past, Joe Tetzel Sdachmou will appeal to the elect proclaiming that now the last signs of the times are appearing. Jesus must be coming soon. We, the only ones who preach the whole message are being persecuted. Look how they slander us on BSDA! You who love the true Advent message must support us with all that you have left. Soon it is too late and you will need your money no more. Sell all of your property and come and live with us, the only secure place left on earth. You may have to live in a trailer for now, but we will provide for you until Jesus comes.

[Clay]

Judging from the past, Joe Tetzel Sdachmou will appeal to the elect proclaiming that now the last signs of the times are appearing. Jesus must be coming soon. We, the only ones who preach the whole message are being persecuted. Look how they slander us on BSDA! You who love the true Advent message must support us with all that you have left. Soon it is too late and you will need your money no more. Sell all of your property and come and live with us, the only secure place left on earth. You may have to live in a trailer for now, but we will provide for you until Jesus comes.

and if they fall for that... shame on them......

[HUGGINS130]

which is why we need to question everything.... I am not impressed with the stories and I do not think their connection to God is greater than mine..... the same God that speaks to them can speak to me....

The days of following someone blindly should be over.....

in the last days God has spoken to His people by His Son, we know it's Christ...but on that I will digress

and if they fall for that... shame on them......

people fall for any wind of doctrine today...now that's a shame..

[seeshell]

It sounds sort of papal to me..."we have a little bit better connection than the common folk".

So this would be exactly why we are to look only to Jesus, not to anyone else. Basically, it comes down to trust no one? Wow, that almost sounds unChristian!

Joe Tetzel Sdachmou...nice twist.

[Panama_Pete]

It sounds sort of papal to me..."we have a little bit better connection than the common folk".

So this would be exactly why we are to look only to Jesus, not to anyone else. Basically, it comes down to trust no one? Wow, that almost sounds unChristian!

Yes, the practice does sound sort of papal.

However, we are reminded:

1 TIMOTHY 2:5 (New King James) "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus."

[Hersheys99]

and if they fall for that... shame on them......

Yes but the sad part is that a lot of elderly people do fall for it. I know one elderly couple that "fell" for it & are living on 3ABN grounds but they thought they were really helping the Lord's work. What a joke after they were in it for a while & now they have no way out of it as they sold all they had where they were living to move here to help the cause. So it is the elderly that are being hurt for the most part & that just makes me mad.

[Panama_Pete]

Yes but the sad part is that a lot of elderly people do fall for it. I know one elderly couple that "fell" for it & are living on 3ABN grounds but they thought they were really helping the Lord's work. What a joke after they were in it for a while & now they have no way out of it as they sold all they had where they were living to move here to help the cause. So it is the elderly that are being hurt for the most part & that just makes me mad.

Lifton's eight criteria for mind control.

Lifton's original intent: "While many groups will exhibit some of these points, a group that demonstrates all eight criteria is using destructive mind control."

1. MILIEU CONTROL

Control of communication within the group environment resulting in significant degree of isolation from the surrounding society. When non-members are labeled as ignorant, unspiritual, satanic, etc., group members conclude that outsiders have nothing worthwhile to teach them. Thus members are unlikely to look outside the group for information, especially spiritual information. Milieu control includes other techniques to restrict members' contact with the outside world and to be able to make critical, rational judgments about information: [This includes] not only the individual's communication with the outside, . . . but also . . . his communication with himself . . . Having experienced the impact of what they consider to be an ultimate truth, . . . they consider it their duty to create an environment containing no more and no less than this 'truth.' [The group member] is deprived of the combination of external information and inner reflection which anyone requires to test the realities of his environment and to maintain a measure of identity separate from it. . ."

2. MYSTICAL MANIPULATION

The claim of divine authority or spiritual advancement that allows the leader to reinterpret events as he or she wishes, or make prophecies or pronouncements at will, all for the purpose of controlling group members. "Ideological totalists. . . are impelled by a special kind of mystique which not only justifies such manipulations, but makes them mandatory... They are the agents 'chosen' (by history, by God, or by some other supernatural force) to carry out the 'mystical imperative,' the pursuit of which must supersede all considerations of decency or of immediate human welfare. Similarly, any thought or action which questions the higher purpose is considered to be stimulated by a lower purpose, to be backward, selfish, and petty in the face of the great overriding mission." "One is asked to accept these manipulations on a basis of trust (or faith). . . When trust gives way to mistrust. . . the higher purpose cannot serve as adequate emotional sustenance . . .feeling himself unable to escape from forces more powerful than himself, he subordinates everything to adapting himself to them. He becomes sensitive to all kinds of cues."

3. DEMAND FOR PURITY

Members are constantly exhorted to strive for perfection. Consequently, guilt and shame are common and powerful control devices. "The experiential world is sharply divided into the pure and the impure, into the absolutely good and the absolutely evil. The good and the pure are of course those ideas, feelings, and actions which are consistent with the totalist ideology and policy; anything else is apt to be relegated to the bad and the impure . . . The philosophical assumption underlying this demand is that absolute purity . . . is attainable. . .. (By) defining and manipulating the criteria of purity, and then by conducting an all-out war upon impurity, the ideological totalists create a narrow world of guilt and shame. This is perpetuated by an ethos of continuous reform, a demand that one strive permanently and painfully for something which not only does not exist but is in fact alien to the human condition. . .. Each person is made vulnerable through his profound inner sensitivities to his own limitations and to his unfulfilled potential. . .[i.e.,] his existential guilt. . . He must also look upon his impurities as originating from outside influences."

4. THE CULT OF CONFESSION

Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed, either privately to a personal monitor or publicly to the group at large. "Confession is the demand that one confess to crimes one has not committed, to sinfulness that is artificially induced, in the name of a cure that is arbitrarily imposed." "In totalist hands, confession becomes a means of exploiting, rather than offering solace for, these vulnerabilities. . . The assumption underlying total exposure... is the environment's claim to total ownership of each individual self within it. . ..[T]he cult of confession makes it virtually impossible to attain a reasonable balance between worth and humility."

5. THE "SACRED SCIENCE"

The doctrine of the group is considered the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or disputing. The leader of the group is likewise above criticism as the spokesperson for God on earth. "An aura of sacredness around its basic dogma, holding it out as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence. This sacredness is evident in the prohibition (whether or not explicit) against the questioning of basic assumptions." "While thus transcending ordinary concerns of logic, however, the milieu at the same time makes an exaggerated claim of airtight logic, of absolute 'scientific' precision. . . the man who dares to criticize it, or to harbor even unspoken alternative ideas, becomes not only immoral and irreverent, but also 'unscientific." "At the level of the individual, the totalist sacred science can offer much comfort and security."

6. LOADING THE LANGUAGE

The group develops a jargon in many ways unique to itself, often non-understandable to outsiders. This jargon consists of numerous words and phases which the members understand (or think they do), but which really act to dull one's ability to engage in critical thinking. "The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliché. The most far-reaching and complex of human problems are compressed into brief, highly reductive, definitive sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed. These become the start and finish of any ideological analysis."

7. DOCTRINE OVER PERSON

The personal experiences of the group members are subordinated to the "Truth" held by the group-apparently contrary experiences must be denied or re-interpreted to fit the doctrine of the group. The doctrine is always more important than the individual. "Another characteristic feature of ideological totalism: the subordination of human experience to the claims of doctrine. . . Consequently, past historical events are retrospectively altered, wholly rewritten, or ignored, to make them consistent with the doctrinal logic. . . the demand that character and identity be reshaped, not in accordance with one's special nature or potentialities, but rather to fit the rigid contours of the doctrinal mold."

8. DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE

The group arrogates to itself the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. Usually held non-literally, this means that those outside the group are unspiritual, worldly, satanic, "unconscious," or whatever, and that they must be converted to the ideas of the group or they will be lost. If they refuse to join the group, then they must be rejected by the group members, even if they are family members. "For the individual, the polar emotional conflict is the ultimate existential one of 'being versus nothingness.' He is likely to be drawn to a conversion experience, which he sees as the only means of attaining a path of existence for the future. . . The totalist environment . . . thus stimulates in everyone a fear of extinction or annihilation. . . A person can overcome this fear and find. . .'confirmation,' not in his individual relationships, but only from the fount of all existence, the totalist Organization. Existence comes to depend upon creed (I believe, therefore I am), upon submission (I obey, therefore I am) and beyond these, upon a sense of total merger with the ideological movement."

Tragically, the deaths in Rancho Santa Fe [Heaven's Gate cult], illustrate dispensing of existence literally. It appears that all these processes were present to one degree or another in the group now known as Heaven's Gate. The personality and critical thinking of the victims was systematically eroded by the environment and attitudes established by the leader. "You're right Mr. Applewhite, suicide is the wrong word for what happened in that rented mansion in Rancho Santa Fe. The right word is murder."

The most seductive evil is when a leader comes across as being very nice, peaceful, genuine and friendly, who seems to be a sincere believer in high-minded and lofty ideals. But the means don't justify the end. In Heaven's Gate, these weren't people who pulled any triggers. [Regarding Heaven's Gate:] They just masterminded a mental state that coerced everyone else to murder themselves.

[sonshineonme]

Lifton's eight criteria for mind control.

Lifton's original intent: "While many groups will exhibit some of these points, a group that demonstrates all eight criteria is using destructive mind control."

1. MILIEU CONTROL

Control of communication within the group environment resulting in significant degree of isolation from the surrounding society. When non-members are labeled as ignorant, unspiritual, satanic, etc., group members conclude that outsiders have nothing worthwhile to teach them. Thus members are unlikely to look outside the group for information, especially spiritual information. Milieu control includes other techniques to restrict members' contact with the outside world and to be able to make critical, rational judgments about information: [This includes] not only the individual's communication with the outside, . . . but also . . . his communication with himself . . . Having experienced the impact of what they consider to be an ultimate truth, . . . they consider it their duty to create an environment containing no more and no less than this 'truth.' [The group member] is deprived of the combination of external information and inner reflection which anyone requires to test the realities of his environment and to maintain a measure of identity separate from it. . ."

2. MYSTICAL MANIPULATION...... snip

I think my "friend" is getting it now - now that my "friend" is out of there, what was happening to my "friend" while inside and also what is really going on in there....once you get away from it, you start to see and realize so much more then when you are in the midst of it - naiveness protects you to some degree, maybe this is God's way of helping you survive when rooted inside the sick ugly situation - He doesn't let you see the whole picture because it would overwhelm you - but get away from it, and all the pieces start to come together, healing takes place, even though each day, you see more clearly what you have come from, more and more of those pieces coming together, you yourself can begin not only to heal, but an opportunity to help others who have also suffered in such ways may come along (isn't God good??). The big idea here is to GET AWAY - even if the means God uses a situation to GET YOU OUT OF THERE. Open thy eyes people.....as we often say, "let it interpret itself", and it surely will.

This post has been edited by Clay: May 13 2006, 05:24 PM