3abn To Summarize...., what is the crime? Options

[Panama_Pete]

Was Brenda in Norway as Linda’s “best friend” or was there another plan in operation? Was she actually there representing Danny? And when there was nothing to report to discredit Linda? Perhaps that’s is when Plan B went into effect.

I was looking at this picture and I couldn't help but ask the exact same question. It seems to me someone else is in this family picture. Anybody recall the members of the "independent fact finding committee"? (Bill Hulsey, Kay Kuzma, Nicholas Miller, Walter Thompson.)

I strongly doubt if any "independent fact finders" had any empathy for Linda Shelton. They wouldn't be publishing books for 3ABN now if they did, in my opinion. I doubt Mr. Shelton would endure them. The fact that they are still associated with 3ABN tells me something.

http://www.micheffsisters.com/images/ms-kuszma-texas.jpg

I wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple plans. Plan A, Plan B, Plan C.......

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Jun 12 2006, 09:33 PM

[watchbird]

I was looking at this picture and I couldn't help but ask the exact same question. It seems to me someone else is in this family picture. Anybody recall the members of the "independent fact finding committee"? (Bill Hulsey, Kay Kuzma, Nicholas Miller, Walter Thompson.)

I strongly doubt if any "independent fact finders" had any empathy for Linda Shelton. They wouldn't be publishing books for 3ABN now if they did, in my opinion. I doubt Mr. Shelton would endure them. The fact that they are still associated with 3ABN tells me something.

http://www.micheffsisters.com/images/ms-kuszma-texas.jpg

I wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple plans. Plan A, Plan B, Plan C.......

Interesting that you bring up the phrase "independent fact finding committee". (And yes, your memory matches mine as to the members of that committee.) Just a few days ago I received a copy of a letter dated June 13, 2006, sent by Walt Thompson, chairman of the 3ABN board, to an inquirer about the history of the last 2 years at 3ABN. It was rather "interesting" to see how the original stories were embellished, and the contraditions to other's testimonies were strengthened.

But there was one change that I thought interesting. The phrase to describe the makeup of the committee has now been changed, and Thompson writes, " I and a small committee of the board had a number of sessions with Linda, encouraging her to break off the relationship that was ruining her home and putting a serious strain on the ministry." Which is a long way from being as was earlier claimed, "an independent fact finding committee"-- which one would expect to mean that they were out to determine whether Danny's accusations were correct or not. This does not seem to have even entered into their minds. Danny said it, they believed it, and their sole purpose was to convince Linda to "break off the relationship" which didn't exist in the first place.

And the "beat goes on" and on and on

[Clay]

we know that there was no "independent" anything.... they went to find some facts that would support the allegations Mr. Shelton made so that he could divorce her on the grounds of spiritual adultery and then marry a woman 20 yrs younger than he... I mean really this one is a no brainer..... and people say money can't corrupt..

[watchbird]

we know that there was no "independent" anything.... they went to find some facts that would support the allegations Mr. Shelton made so that he could divorce her on the grounds of spiritual adultery and then marry a woman 20 yrs younger than he... I mean really this one is a no brainer..... and people say money can't corrupt..

Yes, "we" knew that--the moment that we read the names and recognized that they were board-members and others handpicked by Danny himself. But not all had the information to even know their official positions -- and very few of those who did know, realized that board members were dependent upon Danny rather than the other way around.

But I think we go too far if we join all of the reasons that Danny had for wanting the divorce to the fact that they were looking for ways to support his allegations. First of all, I don't think they were even looking for facts. I think they accepted what he said as fact--without question. I think that their entire focus was upon the question of what could be done about the situation in order to ensure that "the ministry" would continue. I don't think this was the same quality of "for the good of the ministry" that Danny parroted. I think they were thinking of their own investments and reputations, and (in the case of those like Mark Finley, who also got involved) of their own ministries that were depending on 3ABN for world wide broadcast.

The efforts of that committee were focused almost entirely on forcing Linda to acquiesce to all of Danny's demands (which was impossible, for many of them were contraditory and opposite of his real goal of getting rid of her, but they didn't know that), accept the "counseling" (which if one examines the details closely was probably a deprogramming center or a brainwahing program) and remain as the cute little Danny shadow role that she had assumed in the early years.

Once she had refused the whole package, then they were free to claim that she had refused to break off the relationship and remain as Danny's wife, and be quite accurate in their charges. For since there was no inappropriate relationship to break off, she did refuse to break off contact--along with refusing to denounce him as being of the devil, and breaking off contact with Johann and Irmard and making the same statements about them (all provisions which were stated though they never were written out in the official statement -- for obvious reasons). And most of all she refused to return to the man who was going to all lengths possible to make life miserable enough for her so she would leave.

All of this they would have learned had they truly investigated. But they didn't. So they didn't. And since they didn't they made demands and judgements that were unsound. And they have spent the last two years repeating their initial lies so that by now they probably actually believe they are right.

We know different. And in time the whole world will know different. In the meantime it is difficult to wait patiently, though the difficulty is eased by doing what we can, no matter how little a role it may be. At the same time, the difficulty is increased by thinking of the things that have been lost that can never be replaced.

[Clay]

I say that they were looking for support of the allegations vs finding the facts based on one simple fact... most people tend to avoid confrontation or tense situations... so in this case is it easier to do the right thing or to appease Mr. Shelton..... I think appeasement was the option taken....

[lurker]

Yes, "we" knew that--the moment that we read the names and recognized that they were board-members and others handpicked by Danny himself. But not all had the information to even know their official positions -- and very few of those who did know, realized that board members were dependent upon Danny rather than the other way around.

But I think we go too far if we join all of the reasons that Danny had for wanting the divorce to the fact that they were looking for ways to support his allegations. First of all, I don't think they were even looking for facts. I think they accepted what he said as fact--without question. I think that their entire focus was upon the question of what could be done about the situation in order to ensure that "the ministry" would continue. I don't think this was the same quality of "for the good of the ministry" that Danny parroted. I think they were thinking of their own investments and reputations, and (in the case of those like Mark Finley, who also got involved) of their own ministries that were depending on 3ABN for world wide broadcast.

The efforts of that committee were focused almost entirely on forcing Linda to acquiesce to all of Danny's demands (which was impossible, for many of them were contraditory and opposite of his real goal of getting rid of her, but they didn't know that), accept the "counseling" (which if one examines the details closely was probably a deprogramming center or a brainwahing program) and remain as the cute little Danny shadow role that she had assumed in the early years.

Once she had refused the whole package, then they were free to claim that she had refused to break off the relationship and remain as Danny's wife, and be quite accurate in their charges. For since there was no inappropriate relationship to break off, she did refuse to break off contact--along with refusing to denounce him as being of the devil, and breaking off contact with Johann and Irmard and making the same statements about them (all provisions which were stated though they never were written out in the official statement -- for obvious reasons). And most of all she refused to return to the man who was going to all lengths possible to make life miserable enough for her so she would leave.

All of this they would have learned had they truly investigated. But they didn't. So they didn't. And since they didn't they made demands and judgements that were unsound. And they have spent the last two years repeating their initial lies so that by now they probably actually believe they are right.

We know different. And in time the whole world will know different. In the meantime it is difficult to wait patiently, though the difficulty is eased by doing what we can, no matter how little a role it may be. At the same time, the difficulty is increased by thinking of the things that have been lost that can never be replaced.

Back to (Thursday May 27, 2004 through Sunday morning May 30, 2004 in Thompsonville, Illinois -Memorial day weekend - the opening meeting of the 3ABN camp meeting: ) Dr Abrahamsen and Johann Thorvaldsson visited 3ABN camp meeting (they said it was to correct Danny's wrong impression of things and /or to talk to the board). Danny accused them of giving Linda bad advice and had them removed from the 3ABN property. According to Danny's email which was posted on blacksda by beartrap: Danny Shelton said "Please advise Linda that it is time to leave me and start a new life for herself. Anytime that our relationship would degrade to the point that she would listen to such foolish advice as hiding my gun, the relationship is over.”4/27/2004 Note that this email was dated the same day that Danny publicly accused them of giving bad advice. So we know what the bad advice was. A loving husband would feel sympathy for a fearful wife and would attempt to reassure her, not tell her to move on. He might be angry at the person who advised her to be fearful, but he would not reject her just for being scared or for heeding someone else's advice in this regard." And He, Danny was the one who wanted her to be told to "leave and start a new life" for the crime of being frightened of him according to his email. This is exactly what Linda ended up doing. He wanted her to leave. He said so. All the while he was telling the public that he was trying to reconcile.

[Panama_Pete]

The efforts of that committee were focused almost entirely on forcing Linda to acquiesce to all of Danny's demands (which was impossible, for many of them were contraditory and opposite of his real goal of getting rid of her, but they didn't know that), accept the "counseling" (which if one examines the details closely was probably a deprogramming center or a brainwahing program) and remain as the cute little Danny shadow role that she had assumed in the early years.

And speaking of "counseling," would someone please be kind enough to explain to me how an Ed.D in Early Childhood Education mutates into a Ph.D in Family Counseling.

Kay Kuzma graduated from UCLA with a Ed.D in Early Childhood Education. Her qualifications are listed on her web site here:

http://www.kaykuzma.com/presentations/Kay's%20Bio.htm

Now, if you go to newspaper articles, you find it mutates into a "Family Counseling" Ph.D. This is the information Kay Kuzma is, apparently, giving out about herself.

"… Kuzma, a Ph.D. in family counseling….".

http://www.neworleansvfp.org/node/2191

http://www.topix.net/content/kri/046098783...103031004122481

"Ph.D" is also referenced here

http://www.actshelp.org/index.php?option=c...nth=05&module=1

And at Plusline:

https://www.plusline.org/organization.php?id=2032

I think that if a person has a Ed.D in Early Childhood Education, that's what they have. They should be accurate in their descriptions of themselves, rather than play loose with the facts.

I realize both Ed.D and Ph.D degrees are doctorates, but does she want the general public to mistake her for a psychologist a la "Dr. Robert Hartley"?



Dr. Kay Kuzma claimed not to clothed in the guise of a "counselor" when she approached Linda Shelton, but I can't prove that based on how Kay Kuzma describes herself to the newspapers.

[Clay]

Interesting points Pete... I think if we followed the money regarding these "counselors" we will probably find that they are all receiving money from Mr. Shelton....

The other point that concerned me before is this, if I tell my spouse we need counseling, and then proceed to take her to counselors of my choice, how successful will that counseling be? NOT VERY..... its already biased.... Mr. Shelton taking Linda to counselors of his choice... gimme a break... thats akin to making her an offer she can't refuse....

[Johann]

Interesting that you bring up the phrase "independent fact finding committee". (And yes, your memory matches mine as to the members of that committee.) Just a few days ago I received a copy of a letter dated June 13, 2006, sent by Walt Thompson, chairman of the 3ABN board, to an inquirer about the history of the last 2 years at 3ABN. It was rather "interesting" to see how the original stories were embellished, and the contraditions to other's testimonies were strengthened.

But there was one change that I thought interesting. The phrase to describe the makeup of the committee has now been changed, and Thompson writes, " I and a small committee of the board had a number of sessions with Linda, encouraging her to break off the relationship that was ruining her home and putting a serious strain on the ministry." Which is a long way from being as was earlier claimed, "an independent fact finding committee"-- which one would expect to mean that they were out to determine whether Danny's accusations were correct or not. This does not seem to have even entered into their minds. Danny said it, they believed it, and their sole purpose was to convince Linda to "break off the relationship" which didn't exist in the first place.

And the "beat goes on" and on and on

Wonder what is the name of that committe now?

[Johann]

Interesting points Pete... I think if we followed the money regarding these "counselors" we will probably find that they are all receiving money from Mr. Shelton....

The other point that concerned me before is this, if I tell my spouse we need counseling, and then proceed to take her to counselors of my choice, how successful will that counseling be? NOT VERY..... its already biased.... Mr. Shelton taking Linda to counselors of his choice... gimme a break... thats akin to making her an offer she can't refuse....

Very interesting claims. And then claiming some were counselors who weren't. We have discovered that since then.

[GRAT]

Wonder what is the name of that committe now?

Dependent Fabrication of Fantasy Committee

[Dona]

QUOTE=Clay @ Jul 5 2006, 11:15 PM
"Interesting points Pete... I think if we followed the money regarding these "counselors" we will probably find that they are all receiving money from Mr. Shelton....

The other point that concerned me before is this, if I tell my spouse we need counseling, and then proceed to take her to counselors of my choice, how successful will that counseling be? NOT VERY..... its already biased.... Mr. Shelton taking Linda to counselors of his choice... gimme a break... thats akin to making her an offer she can't refuse...."

Very interesting claims. And then claiming some were counselors who weren't. We have discovered that since then.

Interesting reply also.

...

I was in e-mail correspondance with both Linda and Danny before they went for counselling in Kansas. Walt Thompson makes the statement that 3ABN chose those non-SDA counsellor for Linda's sake. Danny refused to go there, because it was Linda's sister who suggested they go there, as far as I recall.

It was after Danny was assured the counsellors were Bible-believing Christians he agreed to go there...You can therefore imagine that the reports I received after that counselling session from Danny did not agree with the reports Linda gave me....

[Johann]

Interesting reply also.

You don't seem to know too much about that session, do you? Have you seen Danny's reports of it?

That short quote does not give a picture of what happened.

This post has been edited by Johann: Dec 12 2007, 07:31 AM

[Ian]

You don't seem to know too much about that session, do you? Have you seen Danny's reports of it?

That short quote does not give a picture of what happened.

How would you know?
Your picture of what happened is biased Johann, your only info secondhand, by your own admission. By the same token you don't know what actually happened either. You weren't there. Your bias and informant and viewpoint in this issue, as in most, is Linda, and what she said, and what you, half a world away, have chosen to believe, and how you have subsequently judged and viewed others and acted and spoke-- all according to what she fed you.

[Johann]

How would you know?
Your picture of what happened is biased Johann, your only info secondhand, by your own admission. By the same token you don't know what actually happened either. You weren't there. Your bias and informant and viewpoint in this issue, as in most, is Linda, and what she said, and what you, half a world away, have chosen to believe, and how you have subsequently judged and viewed others and acted and spoke-- all according to what she fed you.

All the letters I received from Danny Shelton were not second hand. The information I got from one of the so called "counsellors" was not second hand. That was not from Linda.

When I thought you had squeezed out all of the untruthfullness you mustered I see there is still plenty inside. But I have learned from that utterly hopeless Aletheia not to give too much information here because it will all be put through a spin upside down - just like you are doing now. How often has Aletheia turned my words upside down to mean the opposite of what I am saying, and I see you are up to that same old trick.

And since you were not there, how do you know?

I get the least of my information from Linda, I testify what I have seen and heard myself. You will not succeed in weakening my testimony, although due to the lesson you have taught me, I'll wait to tell all I know. Since you are doing all you can to make others look untruthful, you could be having a hard time yourself.

This post has been edited by Johann: Dec 12 2007, 12:17 PM