3abn To Summarize...., what is the crime? Options

[Brother Sam]

Is it true Brenda will say anything to get what she wants?

What about the long late nights that Danny and Brenda were supposedly working on 3ABN projects alone and together?

What kind of work were they doing?

Wasn't Brenda older than Linda?

Was she not young enough for Danny?

[watchbird]

Someone had mentioned to me that it was Brenda Walsh who had started the adultery rumor during or after the Europe trip. Brenda made improper remarks and then an evil spirit appeared to her and threw down a basket from a shelf. Are we getting to the true source of this sorry saga? What is Brenda's background? It is not normal for evil spirits to appear to someone unless they have been dabbling with the occult. And, yes, what exactly was Brenda's "relationship" with Danny?

First as to your comment about evil spirits, a little history.

I'm not sure of the beginning dates, but at least by the early 1960's, there came into the Pentecostal wing of Evangelicalism a preoccupation with demons that in turn brought in a "different" view of "spiritual warfare" than that presented in scripture. Of course the new view was, as one might expect, "supported" by the very texts that it distorted. This in turn was developed into very elaborate rituals for "casting out" the demons that this kind of "Spiritual Warfare" claimed was the immediate cause for eveything that bothered anyone, from health problems to difficulty in overcoming sin. This was called "Deliverance Ministry". Of course, not everyone dared engage in Deliverance Ministry, for if one had any sin in their own lives that would give the demons the "right" to harrass that person. And not all who were pure of heart were given the "gift of exorcism" (as it was called by some). Thus it was that certain people in many denominations became known as "Deliverance Ministers" and books on the topics abounded in Pentecostal circles.

In the mid to late 1970's this concept of "Spiritual Warfare and Deliverance Ministry" was brought into the SDA church by a minister in Oregon. And very soon there were three main "Deliverance Ministries" in the SDA church which toured the country, giving seminars, holding "Deliverance sessions", and teaching others to handle the demons in their own lives in this standard Pentecostal manner as well as how to hold "Deliverance sessions" for the demon harrassed in their local churches.

Adventist church leaders were completely unprepared for this, and there was no help at all given to those in local congregations who were being invaded by these Deliverance Ministry people. Tapes of seminars were widely distributed and books were written based on the experiences these men were having in their "Deliverance" sessions.

Meanwhile, the GC formed a committee to study the phenomena. In 1983 they finished their study and made their report. But unfortunately they still did not understand the strength that it had across the country nor how much it involved not only the methods of Deliverance Ministry, but also the doctrines upon which it was built. So they stopped short of moving from reporting on the methodology to studying and reporting on the theology involved. With the result being that various parts of the theology has so permeated the Adventist church that is is doubtful they can ever by entirely removed. Following this report, the movement was somewhat hampered, but it continued working "underground" through the years since, and is now moving into the open once again.

An interesting sidelight to this is that the factions of Adventism that were most attracted to and most supportive of both the doctrines and the methodology were those of the conservative wing. That is not to say that all conservatives supported it. But it is to say that most of those who did support it were very conscientious, conservative Adventists, and that the older generations seemed more vulnerable than the younger ones.

If you are interested, you can learn about the methodology from the BRI paper, which is only available on-line at ]http://sdanet.org/atissue/warfare/index.htm There is also a paper there which discusses some of the theology invovled.

Now, what does this have to do with Brenda, John Lomacang, Danny, and Linda? Take a look at the way the author of The Televangelist described that experience to which Johann alluded, and following that I'll have some more comments.

The televangelist’s wife took a friend of hers and went to visit her son in this overseas rehab for three days. . . .

Upon returning home, the televangelist’s wife walked into a nasty surprise. Her husband greeted her with an accusation of adultery with the doctor. He demanded that she cease all communication with him. Outraged, she at first ignored him. The situation escalated.

Her best friend, who was temporarily staying in one of the ministry’s apartments, called the compound church’s head pastor one night and told him that her room was infested with demons. She said that these demons had removed her garment bag from the closet and thrown it to the floor, creating a tear in the fabric. The televangelist was summoned and they performed an exorcism. In the process, the televangelist told her that this case of demonic activity was the result of his wife’s philandering ways.

Early the next morning, unaware of the night’s activities, the televangelist’s wife was awakened and ordered down to the living room. There she found her best friend and the pastor. Her friend burst into tears and cried “Please, for your own salvation you have to confess!” They pressed her for several hours. The televangelist told her that if she did not submit and confess, her marriage was over, and her days in ministry were at an end. She protested that there were witnesses, including the friend who was present, that she could not have had an affair with this doctor. She had never been alone with him.

Now I was not present at the "exorcism". But if this was a standard Pentecostal "exorcism", or even an Adventist variant of the standard one, the procedure involved 1) "binding" the demons so they could speak only the truth, 2) giving the demons permission to use the vocal apparatus of the person being "delivered" for the purpose of answering questions put to them by the "Deliverance Mniister", 3) asking them what it is that gives them the right to harrass (or possess) this person, 4) taking notes of the answers, 5) demanding that the demons depart "in the name of Jesus".

There are some variants. The person being "delivered" may or may not be conscious of what words come from their mouths after the ordeal is over. If they have been unconscious through the ordeal, then the Deliverance Minister tells them what the demons said, and warns them that unless they cease the sins which gave the demon the right to harrass them, that they will come back with even more viciousness than before. If they are conscious throughout, they seem sure that the words coming from their mouths are not by their own volition, but that something is "speaking through them".

There is only one detail in the account as given in The Televangelist that does not correlate with the normal Deliverance Session practices. And that is the fact that the sins that were revealed were of someone other than the one who is being delivered. I have never heard of that before except in one instance where the person the Deliverance Ministers thought needed to be delivered would not cooperate with them so one of the Deliverance team members themselves "stood in place" of the person they thought needed the deliverance. ("Standing in place of" meant that this person allowed the demons to speak through his/her mouth as they were commanded to reveal the things which gave them the "rights" to harrass the person being "delivered" in absentia.)

This post has been edited by watchbird: Jun 12 2006, 07:32 AM

[Denny]

This 'excorcism' sounds like normal human manipulation and control tactics with a religious face. As for the televangelist his marriage must have been real rocky for ages to want to drop his wife in such a manner..maybe the 'best friend' was after the husband? ....have mercy

[watchbird]

This 'excorcism' sounds like normal human manipulation and control tactics with a religious face. As for the televangelist his marriage must have been real rocky for ages to want to drop his wife in such a manner..maybe the 'best friend' was after the husband? ....have mercy

If the "exorcisms" were only "normal human manipulation and control tactics with a religious face" it would be bad enough. Unfortunately, there is evidence that strongly suggests that in some cases there have been real demons involved.

As for the "best friend"? Maybe. But she was, and still is, married. And it is doubtful that the answer to the puzzle is so simple as this.

[Denny]

If the "exorcisms" were only "normal human manipulation and control tactics with a religious face" it would be bad enough. Unfortunately, there is evidence that strongly suggests that in some cases there have been real demons involved.

As for the "best friend"? Maybe. But she was, and still is, married. And it is doubtful that the answer to the puzzle is so simple as this.

I was refering to the exorcism in your story not all exorcisms

[gracetoyou]

Thank-you so much for your information on the spiritualistic aspects of this story. A former Southern Adventist University professor visiting my church a number of years ago told me that another former professor had been involved with the idea that if anyone had a sin or weakness, then that was due to a particular demon - a person with a weakness for cookies had a cookie demon, etc. I was appalled as she was a very intelligent woman.

I have listened to a tape by John Osborne that described and criticized deliverance ministries and also have read an excellent book, "The Battle for the Mind," by Lloyd and Leola Rosenvold which goes indepth into this subject and gives numerous case studies. One point that is made is that the process of "exorcising" the supposed demons actually causes the supposed victim to become possessed or at least harassed by demons. It puts demons in rather than taking them out. The authors point out that we should not talk with demons as is done by the deliverance ministries as communication with demons is spiritualism. Rather we should pray to God for Him to free anyone who is harassed by demonic powers.

Adventists who become involved in the deliverance ministry type of exorcism are unwittingly becoming involved in spiritualism. Now some significant pieces of this puzzle are falling into place.

This post has been edited by gracetoyou: Jun 12 2006, 08:23 AM

[sister]

If you consider the information from Watchbird, concerning Deliverance Ministries, I do not think this "demonic manifestation" has anything to do with Linda's behavior. This becomes quite apparent in the unfolding of events. Following the reasoning of the Deliverance Ministry the demons should have attacked Linda, not Brenda. If, in fact Linda were the sinful party. And following that line of reasoning to it’s logical conclusion, the one who called forth the demon’s attention, through certain illicit behavior on her part would have had to have been Brenda, she was the one whom they attacked. So, there was no reason to suspect Linda of any wrong doing based upon the Deliverance Ministry theory. Brenda? Now that is another situation completely.

Was Brenda in Norway as Linda’s “best friend” or was there another plan in operation? Was she actually there representing Danny? And when there was nothing to report to discredit Linda? Perhaps that’s is when Plan B went into effect.

Why should anyone believe Brenda’s claim of demonic harassment? Or her interpretation of it’s cause? There were no witnesses. And a small cut in a piece of luggage, as the only evidence? That takes a leap of faith and extrapolation greater than Linda and Brenda’s flight across the Atlantic to Norway. Perhaps the smell of a skunk conspiracy is wafting through the air in T’ville and if it is instigated by a four-legged creature, than it appears that two of those legs are male and the other two female. And why would John Lomacang agree to participate in an exorcism? What is going on in the 3ABN Worship Center in T'ville?

I do not think that I would want my husband and my “best friend” spending so much time alone together, late at night, if I were having to take care of my dangerously ill child without the support of my husband... I rather doubt, under the circumstances, that Linda was aware of how often a red truck was seen parked outside Brenda’s 3ABN apartment. While Linda was never alone with Nathan’s doctor in Norway, Brenda and Danny were alone together many times late at night in T’ville.

This post has been edited by sister: Jun 12 2006, 09:53 AM

[gracetoyou]

The deliverance ministry subject was brought up because of the evil spirit manifestation and the exorcism segment of this story. Whether the manifestation was real or not is irrelevant. The fact that Brenda would claim that her room was possessed and that Danny and John L. would perform an exorcism is relevant. Apparently they have bought into the deliverance ministry mentality, which is not surprising considering the Pentecostal influence at 3ABN, and used it to further their own agenda. They can twist details to suit themselves -- Brenda was harassed by demons because she was "covering" up Linda's adultery -- or whatever.

By the way, where was Brenda's husband when the red truck was parked outside of Brenda's apartment all those nights?

This post has been edited by gracetoyou: Jun 12 2006, 09:52 AM

[PaperTigers]

The deliverance ministry subject was brought up because of the evil spirit manifestation and the exorcism segment of this story. Whether the manifestation was real or not is irrelevant. The fact that Brenda would claim that her room was possessed and that Danny and John L. would perform an exorcism is relevant. Apparently they have bought into the deliverance ministry mentality, which is not surprising considering the Pentecostal influence at 3ABN, and used it to further their own agenda. They can twist details to suit themselves.

By the way, where was Brenda's husband when the red truck was parked outside of Brenda's apartment all those nights?

Brenda's husband would be where he always is... either at work or in TN

[gracetoyou]

Brenda's husband would be where he always is... either at work or in TN

Just read Brenda Walsh's testimony in Mending Broken People. She wrote that her husband leaves Knoxville, TN each Sunday afternoon to drive 7 hours to Washington, D.C., for his job and she drives 6 hours in the opposite direction to work at 3ABN. Not a lot of togetherness there.

I found it interesting that in referring to Linda Shelton on p. 229, Brenda refers to her as the "vice-president" twice instead of referring to Linda by her name - like she didn't want to identify who the vice-president was.

I've always felt her cookie story was stupid.

This post has been edited by gracetoyou: Jun 12 2006, 09:46 AM

[caribbean sda]

Just read Brenda Walsh's testimony in Mending Broken People. She wrote that her husband leaves Knoxville, TN each Sunday afternoon to drive 7 hours to Washington, D.C., for his job and she drives 6 hours in the opposite direction to work at 3ABN. Not a lot of togetherness there.

I found it interesting that in referring to Linda Shelton on p. 229, Brenda refers to her as the "vice-president" instead of referring to Linda by her name.

I've always felt her cookie story was stupid.

When I read Brenda's book about her life, I found it strange that when she was recounting the experience of how Kid's Time was started, she referred to a conversation with the "Vice President of 3ABN." Is Linda so "persona non grata" that not even the mention of her name is permitted? She is nothing more than a mere title...go figure...

[Johann]

When I read Brenda's book about her life, I found it strange that when she was recounting the experience of how Kid's Time was started, she referred to a conversation with the "Vice President of 3ABN." Is Linda so "persona non grata" that not even the mention of her name is permitted? She is nothing more than a mere title...go figure...

Does her name distort the miracle stories from 3ABN? What part does BSDA play in making known the mere facts of what 3ABN is and should be?

[Clay]

Does her name distort the miracle stories from 3ABN? What part does BSDA play in making known the mere facts of what 3ABN is and should be?

BSDA has no part.... there are members who have joined and are interested and thus they post here... I cannot speak for the members however it's a safe bet that not every member here is interested in the 3abn saga.....

[awesumtenor]

BSDA has no part.... there are members who have joined and are interested and thus they post here... I cannot speak for the members however it's a safe bet that not every member here is interested in the 3abn saga.....

BSDA still plays a part, regardless of whether all members are interested or not... if for no other reason than the fact that the discussion on 3ABN is open and accessible to all... there is no "official" slant and parties from all sides are welcome to make statements and rebut the statements of others, within the drawn lines.

That freedom is both more valuable and more important than may be realized at this juncture.

In His service,
Mr. J

[caribbean sda]

Does her name distort the miracle stories from 3ABN? What part does BSDA play in making known the mere facts of what 3ABN is and should be?

It was just a mere observation...we can still do that, can't we?