An Unauthorized History of 3ABN, Chapter 7 (the dollar store and the Lengend) Options

[beartrap]

Sonshine, ALL religion is based on fear. Do you really think that the Creator directly communicated to men from different parts of the world that He existed in multiple configurations? Forget the Bible for a second and think about human history and prehistory and the journey of development we have been following from the very beginning. The history of the race does not lie.

Sometimes it seems that Nietzche was right when he said, "the last Christian died on the cross."

[Guest_statrei_*]

Sometimes it seems that Nietzche was right when he said, "the last Christian died on the cross."

You should know that Jesus could not have been a Christian so who are you and Nietzche talking about? Just because is makes a good sound bite does not make it good.

This post has been edited by statrei: Jul 10 2006, 08:36 PM

[beartrap]

You should know that Jesus could not have been a Christian so who are you and Nietzche talking about. Just because is makes a good sound bite does not make it good.

[sonshineonme]

Sonshine, ALL religion is based on fear. Do you really think that the Creator directly communicated to men from different parts of the world that He existed in multiple configurations? Forget the Bible for a second and think about human history and prehistory and the journey of development we have been following from the very beginning. The history of the race does not lie.

I guess it would depend on what you call "religion" then. Why does fear have to have any part in it? It does not. If you would rather call it christianity, then we can redefine what you are calling "religion".

I am not clear on what you mean by "different configurations". I believe through all time God has communicated in some way (His choice of how) to make sure His children knew Him. Whether they accepted it or not has and will always be our choice. Even with no bible, which does not limit God by any means, I believe He would still reach or communicate to His children. He only takes us as far as we will go with Him. It matters not where in the development we are, time, history or prehistory as you say. I can't begin to know how or why He did things, but I can not overlook what He has provided for us now to know Him. I work with what I have.

You should know that Jesus could not have been a Christian so who are you and Nietzche talking about? Just because is makes a good sound bite does not make it good.

Darius, you are too smart for your own good.
Jesus was not technically a Christian I suppose, but He did live to be an example and show us what the Father (his father) was about. So, he started christianity, if you will.
It's not even a good soundbite, it's the truth often times, and that of course is what bear is alluding to. You are a very intelligent being, God did good when it came to you.

[beartrap]

Well, now wait a minute Darius and Sonshine. Isn't a Christian someone who is like Christ and believes in him? I contend that Christ was himself, acted like himself, and believed in himself, and must therefor be considered a Christian. Following that line of reason, could it not then be possible that the last Christian did die on the cross? After all, can it be shown definitively that anyone but Christ ever actually acted like Christ? By my definition, many people fulfil the second requirement, but who has ever filled the first, other than Christ? (LOL! Having too much fun here. Not serious enough. Must stretch face out and make it long again. Levity has overtaken me and must be overcome! Those who are not of sober mien, those who indulge in such depraved acts as... hilarity, jocularity, belly laughter, and all forms of entertainment must surely be marching resolutely down the broad avenue that leads to hell. We must control our humour, for it is thereby that the devil shall consume our chuckling souls. We must depart from cackling, for those who cackle ride broom sticks...)

This post has been edited by beartrap: Jul 11 2006, 12:02 AM

[Guest_statrei_*]

Sonshine, if the Creator was the founder of religion then He would not have told one civilization that He was one and another that He was an entire multitude, with many variations in between. Men created religion because they were afraid of a Being they could not know. They established their religions and appointed a few to stand as a buffer between them and somebody they feared. The Creator only founded government, not religion. "And the government shall be upon His shoulders."

[sonshineonme]

Sonshine, if the Creator was the founder of religion then He would not have told one civilization that He was one and another that He was an entire multitude, with many variations in between. Men created religion because they were afraid of a Being they could not know. They established their religions and appointed a few to stand as a buffer between them and somebody they feared. The Creator only founded government, not religion. "And the government shall be upon His shoulders."

I understand what you are saying. And yes, RELIGION could be seen as you describe - while Christianity is something more simple (or is it?). On the other hand, who is to say that God did not design us to make our own religions and that all roads will lead to Him in some way? If we are made in his image, this can't be too far off in theory - and it's not always fear that causes you to make something to worship. Religion to me (and I know I am not as smart as you are) is a set of beliefs that you arrive at by study of the bible. Now, I many be simple minded....but, if my religion is not based on my christianity (Christs example of living) that my religion is wrong.

Bear, I like what you said - I was not trying to say Jesus was not a christian - I agreed techinically with D'man - Jesus didn't worship himself. But He was a christian in His living (what I meant by example). And, since when is fun of the devil? Not in my "religion"

[inga]

Sonshine, if the Creator was the founder of religion then He would not have told one civilization that He was one and another that He was an entire multitude, with many variations in between. Men created religion because they were afraid of a Being they could not know. They established their religions and appointed a few to stand as a buffer between them and somebody they feared. The Creator only founded government, not religion. "And the government shall be upon His shoulders."

Darius, if we take the Bible at its word, the scenario goes like this:

God created this world and all that's in it, including the first man and woman. They learned who He is directly from Him. When they distrusted Him and lost their right to the Tree of Life, they could no longer see Him face to face. They knew the promise of a Savior, and God gave them an object lesson to remember it through time -- the sacrifice of an innocent lamb. (Cain's sacrifice of the product of his own work was not acceptable in the place of the demonstration of faith that Abel offered.)

From our first parents, two lineages developed -- the descendants of Cain and the descendants of Seth. The Cain lineage continued in the way of setting up their own religion, and the descendants of Seth were worshipers of God until the intermarried with the children of Cain. By the time of Noah, the line of Creator worshipers was in danger of becoming extinct, and God sent a great flood to cleanse the surface of the earth, saving only the eight people who were still worshiping the Creator.

After the Flood, the descendants of Noah made their own choices regarding whether to follow the way of Cain or the way of Seth. From the Tower of Babel they dispersed to various parts of the world, and current evidence indicates that the majority set up their own religions. Yet all these religions still have traces of true Creator worship in them, and wise missionaries use these traces as a point of contact. Furthermore, God is still able, as He always was, to communicate with persons in the depths of heathenism through the voice of the Holy Spirit, and I believe He does that. So many will be saved in the heavenly Kingdom who have never heard the name of Christ but listened to His Spirit nevertheless.

So, no God did NOT tell some He is One and others that He is many. He revealed Himself personally to Adam and Eve and He kept in touch with all who wished to hear His voice, in addition to the revelation of Himself in nature.

If you believe all religion is man-made, you have no Savior other than a man-made one. And I must pity you. In that case, Danny has the right to make his own religion, just like you have the right to make your own religion. May the "fittest" rise to the top!

On the other hand, perhaps you believe you are the only one in direct communication with the Creator, and you therefore know that all other religions are man-made? Please clarify ...

This post has been edited by inga: Jul 23 2006, 01:02 PM

[Clay]

Inga, Darius cannot reply but consider this, religion is man's attempt to make sense of his encounter with The Creator.... thus all religions from that standpoint are man made.... If we want to say that God established a religion that would have been Judaism and it was quickly perverted....

[inga]

Inga, Darius cannot reply but consider this, religion is man's attempt to make sense of his encounter with The Creator.... thus all religions from that standpoint are man made....

Since you say "encounter with The Creator," you are acknowledging that God takes the initiative?

[ I believe the usual naturalistic explanation is that religion is man's attempt to fill a need for someone greater than himself, to make sense of things he can't understand, etc.]

If we want to say that God established a religion that would have been Judaism and it was quickly perverted....

It is evident that God instituted the sacrifices that demonstrated faith in the Savior at the gates of Eden, since it is there He clothed Adam and Eve with skins, and Abel demonstrated his faith with his sacrifice. I would say that God "established" the first "religion."

As I mentioned earlier, I believe that all the world's religions are perversions of the original worship of God which He encouraged. Later, God chose Abraham and his descendants as His special representatives on Planet Earth, and He gave them quite a sophisticated legal system, health instruction and a sanctuary service that included types of various aspects of the plan of salvation. Of course, the rebellious heart of man perverted this system into a "works" system. But during all this history, some remained faithful to God and worshiped Him in spirit and in truth. The shepherds of Bethlehem were some of these.

And, of course, Christ Himself established a church fellowship before He went back to heaven. A review of the seven churches of Revelation gives some indication of how the church through history failed, and how it fulfilled its mission.

God made us with a need that only He can fill. It has been Satan's studied purpose to cause humanity to think that they can fill this need in various other ways. It is for that purpose he also perverted the religions in this world. And he comes even into Christ's own church to pervert the truth. Yet there are still those who worship Him in spirit and in truth. May we each be in that number!

[Joe Smith]

3ABN Board Members

1. Danny Shelton - 3ABN founder, and board member since 1985
2. Walter Thompson - Board member for around 17 years. Board Chairman. Retired surgeon, and producer of several programs on 3ABN
3. May Chung - Board member for around 20 years. Wealthy philanthropist, financial supporter of 3ABN and Danny Shelton, and host of a program on 3ABN
4. Bill Hulsey - Board member for close to 20 years. Wealthy businessman and financial supporter of 3ABN
5. Ellsworth McKee - Board member for close to 20 years. Former board chairman. Wealthy philanthropist and financial supporter of 3ABN
6. Larry Welch - Board member for close to 20 years. 3ABN employee, former lay pastor and drywall worker.
7. G. Ralph Thompson - Board member for close to 15 years. Retired undersecretary of the GC.
8. Kenneth Denslow - Board member since he became president of the Illinois Conference. His parents both work for 3ABN
9. Merlin Fjarli - Board member since 2004. Wealthy philanthropist and financial supporter of 3ABN
10. Nicholas Miller - Board member since 2004. 3ABN attorney.
11. Mollie Steenson - Board member since 2004. 3ABN General Manager, and has programs on 3ABN
12. Carmelita Troy - Board member since 2004. Daughter of former board member, Owen Troy. Teaches accounting at the U.S. Naval Academy Post Graduate School
13. Larry Ewing - Board member since 2004/2005. 3ABN Finacial Director
14. Wintley Phipps - Board member since 2005. Singer and pastor. Recipient of 1 million dollars from 3ABN, and proposed director of a proposed new network.

What's wrong with this picture??? All these people with millions and multi-millions are in Danny's pocket??
When did they get there.. and why would they want to play this game?? Don't they have other more important stuff to attend to. People like Ellsworth McKee, doesn't he have enought to keep him busy without being part of something that is bound to hurt his business, like being a part of 3ABN I mean.

It's funny to me that all these people were "well respected" people until Linda was fired. What happened to them all? Did they just happen to "go bad" about that time? Again... they don't need Danny or 3ABN, why do you suppose they are a part of it?? Maybe, because they know many more facts about what is really going on there.

Joe

[Chez]

What's wrong with this picture??? All these people with millions and multi-millions are in Danny's pocket??
When did they get there.. and why would they want to play this game?? Don't they have other more important stuff to attend to. People like Ellsworth McKee, doesn't he have enought to keep him busy without being part of something that is bound to hurt his business, like being a part of 3ABN I mean.

It's funny to me that all these people were "well respected" people until Linda was fired. What happened to them all? Did they just happen to "go bad" about that time? Again... they don't need Danny or 3ABN, why do you suppose they are a part of it?? Maybe, because they know many more facts about what is really going on there.

Joe

Joe, Joe, Joe.

Did the Beartrap say that these were bad people? Someone inquired about the names of board members. Beartrap simply supplied the names and a little information about each member. People like Ellsworth McKee will participate on other boards. People like Ellsworth McKee are also risk takers. That's business.

[Joe Smith]

Joe, Joe, Joe.

Did the Beartrap say that these were bad people? Someone inquired about the names of board members. Beartrap simply supplied the names and a little information about each member. People like Ellsworth McKee will participate on other boards. People like Ellsworth McKee are also risk takers. That's business.

I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I think all these people are GOOD people with an honest goal of serving God and supporting His ministries. I didn't mean that Beartrap was putting them down either. The pic I ment to paint was... there is a lot of people out there that think that these good people are in Danny's pocket. I say why would they be? What would they get out of that? Don't they have enough of a life without being Danny's puppet? IF they are, then when did it start? From the beginning OR when Linda was fired?
I know many of the board members and I think they are sincere.
Joe

[Pickle]

I know many of the board members and I think they are sincere.
Joe

Sure, they may all be sincere, but isn't that beside the point? Isn't the point that Dr. Walt Thompson admitted that he never contacted any of the six alleged victims, their families, or the two ordaining associations that had revoked Tommy's credentials when invited to do so, and instead relied solely on the bogus information Danny gave him? Isn't a mistake like this really serious when it could potentially cost both 3ABN and the IL Conf. millions of dollars down the road?

I think I asked you about this already, and you haven't replied. Why not?

This post has been edited by Pickle: Dec 24 2006, 01:52 PM

[Joe Smith]

Sure, they may all be sincere, but isn't that beside the point? Isn't the point that Dr. Walt Thompson admitted that he never contacted any of the six alleged victims, their families, or the two ordaining associations that had revoked Tommy's credentials when invited to do so, and instead replied solely on the bogus information Danny gave him? Isn't a mistake like this really serious when it could potentially cost both 3ABN and the IL Conf. millions of dollars down the road?


That's a fair question. Keep watching 3ABN. I think you will see some positive steps just ahead.
Joe




I think I asked you about this already, and you haven't replied. Why not?