An Unauthorized History of 3ABN, Chapter 7 (the dollar store and the Lengend) Options

[watchbird]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch......
So, beartrap, were you ever sued? Do you think he ever really would sue and risk exposure?

There may be some misunderstanding. The letters that beartrap posted excerpts from he indicated were from Danny. He did not say who they were written to. I am quite sure that I recognize these excerpts as being from letters that I have seen, and they were each written to either Johann or Linda. The most direct warning here was to Johann. And no, he did not sue, and the general consensus is that while Danny frequently threatens to take someone to court, actually going to court is something that he avoids. Recall the vingettes written by Sister in which two different men were not prosecuted even though there was proof that they had robbed Danny of considerable funds.

[Fran]

There may be some misunderstanding. The letters that beartrap posted excerpts from he indicated were from Danny. He did not say who they were written to. I am quite sure that I recognize these excerpts as being from letters that I have seen, and they were each written to either Johann or Linda. The most direct warning here was to Johann. And no, he did not sue, and the general consensus is that while Danny frequently threatens to take someone to court, actually going to court is something that he avoids. Recall the vingettes written by Sister in which two different men were not prosecuted even though there was proof that they had robbed Danny of considerable funds.

To the best of my knowledge, those emails were from Danny. I have seen at least 1/2 of them if not more. I have copies of them with the tracking on them. Yes, they were from Danny. I am sure there are many more. Not all that I have were posted. I know to whom they were sent. It is up to them to post more.

The emails were sent by Danny Shelton. I will leave fuller sxposure of these emails to be posted by the person that received them.

Linda;

I would have hid the gun also. Smart move!

[Clay]

You demonstrated impatience some time back that, with all that was said about Dan Shelton, no one seems to be doing anything about it. Then beartrap suggested that with as bad as Al Capone was and as widely known as his "badness" was -- it still took years to "get him." And, as you pointed out, that was even with the government wanting him! It took years for the government to get him!

And you want these ex-employees and others "in the know" to do something about it or shut up?

The comparison was not between the behavior of Al Capone and Dan Shelton. The point was the difficulty of proving mis-doings in a court of law, even when the behavior is well known. It happens all the time. When I lived in the city of Abbotsford, British Columbia, "everyone," including the police" knew who was dealing in certain drugs. But the dealers walked free. Same thing happened in a little village in Nova Scotia. Everyone knew where certain individuals made their big bucks. But they walked free -- because no one could prove with hard evidence just what was going on. Like I said ... it happens all the time. But you figure that if Dan Shelton really did all the things related here -- and I figure he probably did -- that these folks ought to do something about it.

H'mm ...
See above. You missed beartrap's point, I suspect. I didn't see him saying that Dan was "as bad as Al Capone."

If Shelton has many of the church's leaders in his pocket, has serious influence in the church's decision making processes, has in effect compromised the church because of their partnership with him, and some even suggesting he is the face of adventism, then it's time to leave the building.

The jews continued their rituals thinking God was still in it and he had left the building.... How do we know that God has not left this (the sda church) building?

[Guest_vonessa_*]

If Shelton has many of the church's leaders in his pocket, has serious influence in the church's decision making processes, has in effect compromised the church because of their partnership with him, and some even suggesting he is the face of adventism, then it's time to leave the building.

The jews continued their rituals thinking God was still in it and he had left the building.... How do we know that God has not left this (the sda church) building?

I just got done reading your post Clay . . . it is number 666 . . . and I think that you might be onto something. Have we been abandoned by God? I dont think so.

[Clay]

I just got done reading your post Clay . . . it is number 666 . . . and I think that you might be onto something. Have we been abandoned by God? I dont think so.

yeah, and the Jews didn't think that God's glory had left the temple either... I am not saying God has abandoned the church, he didn't abandon the Jews, but they were no longer the means by which he sent his message into the world... they were set aside....and it would be foolish to think that the sda church can't be set aside either.... God does not need the sda church...contrary to what we think....

[Clay]

That's not unbelievable at all... he did not have an organization downstate, didn't have politicians and police on his payroll, didnt have informants and any intelligence gathering apparatus in place there. He could see that there was money to be made there but the resources needed to make said money were limited and often already loyal to someone else.

This being the case those who had all of those things in place would very easily have been able to ward off any advances towards another criminal enterprise making an inroads on their operation....even if it was Al Capone.

Capone was, when all is said and done, a business man. He would consider the costs of "investment" versus the return on said investment and often it is not worth going after a big fish in a small pond like he may have in downstate Illinois, especially in proximity to the Mississippi river. The demographics of small town america made organized crime largely unprofitable and markedly more risky than operating in Chicago or NY or LA.

In His service,
Mr. J

all that being said, it does not mean that he was "afraid" to set up shop as much as he didn't see any profitability in setting up shop in southern IL..... that is a significant difference... imo......

[watchbird]

If Shelton has many of the church's leaders in his pocket, has serious influence in the church's decision making processes, has in effect compromised the church because of their partnership with him, and some even suggesting he is the face of adventism, then it's time to leave the building.

The jews continued their rituals thinking God was still in it and he had left the building.... How do we know that God has not left this (the sda church) building?

I'm confused.

We are learning that many of the church's leaders are being essentially held hostage by a "badguy" who has robbed them blind, thus making them extra dependent on the same deep pockets who support the "badguy", which further "compromises" them. And you seem to be saying that all of this is a sign that God has "left the (the sda church) building", so it's "time [for us] to leave the building". Where is the logic in that. Wouldn't it be more logical to think that it is time for all of us to withdraw our support for the "badguy" and band together to free the hostages?

Now if you had used your metaphor to say that it is time to abandon the notion that the Shelton empire either represents God or is the "face of adventism", then we'd be in synch.

And if you would move on from that to urge us all to redirect our available funds back to the church itself and to let our leaders know that we want to support them in cutting all ties to the "Absolom in the gate" that Danny Shelton has turned out to be, THEN

[Guest_statrei_*]

Have we been abandoned by God? I dont think so.

Therein lies the key to Shelton's perceived hold or that of any other religious 'power.' You have as much evidence that the God has abandoned Adventism as you have that he/she has abandoned the Jews, yet you believe the one and not the other.

[Clay]

I'm confused.

We are learning that many of the church's leaders are being essentially held hostage by a "badguy" who has robbed them blind, thus making them extra dependent on the same deep pockets who support the "badguy", which further "compromises" them. And you seem to be saying that all of this is a sign that God has "left the (the sda church) building", so it's "time [for us] to leave the building". Where is the logic in that. Wouldn't it be more logical to think that it is time for all of us to withdraw our support for the "badguy" and band together to free the hostages?

Now if you had used your metaphor to say that it is time to abandon the notion that the Shelton empire either represents God or is the "face of adventism", then we'd be in synch.

And if you would move on from that to urge us all to redirect our available funds back to the church itself and to let our leaders know that we want to support them in cutting all ties to the "Absolom in the gate" that Danny Shelton has turned out to be, THEN

no need to be confused.... when Jesus arrived on the scene the church was thoroughly corrupt... he chastised the leaders for misleading the common people... Ultimately in spite of his warnings Jesus left those leaders to do whatever they wanted to do and his followers started a new movement...

You all have said that Mr. Shelton has held the church hostage. If that were the only problem then yes your corrective would be effective. But we know that Mr. Shelton is not the only problem. We have the church editing, revising, rewording the words of EGW, continuing to publish books that she never wrote, to what end? We have throughout the NAD money mismanagment and various scandals that some have attempted to sweep under the rug... We have half the people who join the church leaving... lastly do we really know how the tithe dollars are being used? Oh and I almost forgot.... in certain areas of these United States the church is still practicing separate but equal in its organizational structure....

All those things together suggest to me that there are major issues... I am not a prophet, nor the son of one, but if you told me all of those things, I would say, it looks like God has left the building... btjm....

This post has been edited by Clay: May 30 2006, 06:52 AM

[watchbird]

All those things together suggest to me that there are major issues... I am not a prophet, nor the son of one, but if you told me all of those things, I would say, it looks like God has left the building... btjm....

Then I see that we have major disagreements in many areas. Major issues, yes, though I would not agree that all of them that you list are the way you describe them.

Giving problems as a reason for thinking that God has left the "building", rather than pressing together to help solve the problems. No. This is way outside of the boundaries of my thinking. No wonder we are having difficulty in agreeing that the problem of the having a Shelton empire which makes false claims about being the church should be exposed and resolved rather than ignored and placated.

I am saddened by this knowledge of your thought.

[Clay]

Then I see that we have major disagreements in many areas. Major issues, yes, though I would not agree that all of them that you list are the way you describe them.

Giving problems as a reason for thinking that God has left the "building", rather than pressing together to help solve the problems. No. This is way outside of the boundaries of my thinking. No wonder we are having difficulty in agreeing that the problem of the having a Shelton empire which makes false claims about being the church should be exposed and resolved rather than ignored and placated.

I am saddened by this knowledge of your thought.

no need to be sad... ask any of the regulars here, I have advocated for years (and they use to tease me about it) that the .org needs to be dismantled and reorganized from scratch.... the other option, home churches.... no organized structure at all....the more I read about 3abn, and how the tentacles of corruption seem to be everywhere, the better home churches look to me... the more you all share about leaders being in bed so to speak with Mr. Shelton the more it strengthens my position that this .org needs to be dismantled..... btjm....

[summertime]

Doing something does not have to be placed in an "instead of" context. Talking to each other is important, especially in this venue which is open for any who come by to read. In addition to that, however, there is real value in not only talking about what can be done, but in actually doing some of the things suggested, or some that are inspired by something said here.

As far as placing an ad for BSDA, that would have to come from Calvin, I would assume, unless he wanted to delegate the responsibility to someone else.

When it comes to the Union papers, it is my understanding that they have their own requirements for accepting ads, as well as their own pricing schedules. This information, or contact information for finding the information, would be available on your Union website or possibly in the Union paper itself. And probably the request for an ad would only be looked at seriously if it came from someone within that specific Union. So this is not something that someone can do for all Unions. You could, however, send your suggestion to Polly's Place itself and find out if this is something they themselves can initiate.

You could also write to specific Adventist papers and tell them about your interest in Polly's Place, give them the url of the website and that you would very much like to see an article done on this organization. Women of Spirit is one that might be specifically interested in it. OTOH, they may have already run such an article and you may not have noticed it. Be aware that most magazines have a very long planning cycle. Adventist Review, for example, has their feature stories planned out for three years in advance. Only late breaking news type items can get into it in shorter notice. Be aware also that magazines are normally looking for articles to evaluate for publication rather than for ideas for articles for which they would have to devote staff time or find an author.

As for authority, anyone can initiate a request on only their own desire. The editorial or marketing department of the magazine (depending on whether it is for a story or a public request for funds) would have the final say on the decisions. In the case of Adventist Review, the advertising for the magazine is handled by the Review and Herald Publishing Assn. Marketing Department, not by the editorial staff.

It would be well to contact Mabel Dunbar to learn what her desires are in this area before contacting any magazine. While we know that she needs operating funds, we do not know that she needs more publicity. It may be that until she has funds, she has more opportunities now than what she has funds for.

Well, I wrote to Mabel Dunbar and just this morning I received a warm e-mail encouraging others to help "Polly's Place" and she assured me that her network is excited to be working with Linda and said that they will not let Danny or John affect their relationship with Linda or discredit her. I have written to her asking for permission to post her complete e-mail on BSDA so that others will know how they can help "Polly's Place" I will do so if she ok's it. THis morning I will send a donation to Polly's Place @
Polly's Place Network
c/o Mable Dunbar
P.O. Box 19039
Spokane, WA 99219-9039

I would invite others to help them in anyway possible. I believe this is a positive way that BSDA can help those who are in need.

summertime

This post has been edited by summertime: May 30 2006, 06:37 PM

[Daryl Fawcett]

Man one could seriously go on and on about the things that happen during taping, that the viewing audience is completely unaware of..
I remember on a Today LIVE, I was doing audio because the regular guy was gone... and one of the guests microphones started cutting out...
I had on high heels, so I had to kick my shoes off, grab a mic and literaly crawl on the floor to get to the guest and keep out of sight... swap out the microphones, and then crawl back and run into the control room... all the while we were still taping and broadcasting LIVE!!
Great Fun!!

Do you realize that telling these stories reveals your identity here to those who were also there, and maybe even Danny himself?

[sonshineonme]

Do you realize that telling these stories reveals your identity here to those who were also there, and maybe even Danny himself?

In a way you are correct in what you observe Daryl - it helps the others that are afraid to post to be able to feel braver in doing so, seeing others have, and it is also a form of support because others went through similar things. Many have nothing more to lose in telling their situations either. I don't think there are too many that have posted that are in fear of Danny any further for various reasons. Some still watch their back - for now.

This post has been edited by sonshineonme: Jul 4 2006, 11:16 AM

[Guest_statrei_*]

I would invite others to help them in anyway possible. I believe this is a positive way that BSDA can help those who are in need.

This is commendable. The problem that the Creator has laid out a plan for us whereby we can bring into existence a world where such need will not exist and everyone is shying away from it. We much rather be known for our ability to remove the spyware than getting down and repairing the OS so that it is not susceptible to spyware. Who was it that said humans are the most intelligent form of life on this planet?