An Unauthorized History of 3ABN, Chapter 8 (still more of the televangelist) Options

[Guest_statrei_*]

Did God lead in the establishment of 3ABN? I think that he did.

And that's all it is; a belief. You have no evidence one way or other that there is any substance to this belief. Did He ever tell you that He stopped leading 3ABN? You decided that because you saw stuff you don't like. You have no evidence that He agrees with you. You have painted yourself into a corner and you don't have a lifeline to pluck you out.

[watchbird]

And that's all it is; a belief. You have no evidence one way or other that there is any substance to this belief. Did He ever tell you that He stopped leading 3ABN? You decided that because you saw stuff you don't like. You have no evidence that He agrees with you. You have painted yourself into a corner and you don't have a lifeline to pluck you out.

Paint does not a prison make.

As for a lifeline--as a matter of fact, I do indeed have a Lifeline.

So sorry if you don't.

[Clay]

Trouble is if this store is the only one of its kind in the area, and it has a popular product that everyone wants. Just like so many seem to think that only 3ABN has the ability to produce the right kind of proclamation of the Advent Message. Are you suggesting we inform around us that the true Gospel can use other vehicles of communication than 3ABN?

The Creator is not limited to 3ABN to get the message out.... it may or may not be the only store in the area, but if he has convinced people that he is only show in town then thats on them....

[Guest_statrei_*]

The Creator is not limited to 3ABN to get the message out.... it may or may not be the only store in the area, but if he has convinced people that he is only show in town then thats on them....

The problem is that he did not have to convince them. The bond is greater because they convinced him. All this hullabaloo is an attempt to maintain the self-deception.

[Panama_Pete]

And that's all it is; a belief. You have no evidence one way or other that there is any substance to this belief. Did He ever tell you that He stopped leading 3ABN? You decided that because you saw stuff you don't like. You have no evidence that He agrees with you. You have painted yourself into a corner and you don't have a lifeline to pluck you out.

Top-notch lawyers always dress the murder suspect in a shirt and tie and get him a haircut before they bring the suspect to court. The lawyers don't let the suspect show up for court dressed as a biker to show off his latest tattoos to the jury. Otherwise, the suspect could lose his case before the jury ever sees any evidence.

It's difficult, if not impossible, to separate beliefs from the evidence so neatly. People who work with juries seem to know this.

[Clay]

The problem is that he did not have to convince them. The bond is greater because they convinced him. All this hullabaloo is an attempt to maintain the self-deception.

so then it is a case of not liking the "god" they created.... interesting.... in light of the fact that I suspect that Mr. Shelton has always been what he is.....

reminds me of this story.....

One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where he lived and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through the forests and hills. He climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until he reached a river.

The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn't see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.

Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.

"Hellooo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"

"Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.

"Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"

Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"

"This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"

"Alright then...how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.

"Ahh...," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!"

So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.

Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.

"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"

The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.

"I could not help myself. It is my nature."

Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.

[summertime]

And that's all it is; a belief. You have no evidence one way or other that there is any substance to this belief. Did He ever tell you that He stopped leading 3ABN? You decided that because you saw stuff you don't like. You have no evidence that He agrees with you. You have painted yourself into a corner and you don't have a lifeline to pluck you out.

Statrei, are you sure that you do not speak for or as Danny Shelton? Are you sure that your true initials are not similar to D.S.? If a fish smells like a fish, sounds like a fish, gloats like a fish and looks like a fish, it usually is a fish.

This post has been edited by summertime: Jun 9 2006, 07:25 AM

[Denny]

If a fish smells like a fish, sounds like a fish, floats and swims like a fish and looks like a fish, it usually is a fish.

It could be a mammal i.e dolphins

[Johann]

Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.

Who is the scorpion and who is the frog?

[watchbird]

so then it is a case of not liking the "god" they created.... interesting.... in light of the fact that I suspect that Mr. Shelton has always been what he is.....

Ah yes, which was also my point in an earlier post, but which in itself is an extremely sad comment, for one would expect that one claiming to do the work of God would have been changed in character by his association with God.

reminds me of this story.....

One day, a scorpion looked around [. . . now moving to the punchlines . . .]

So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.

Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.

"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"

The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.

"I could not help myself. It is my nature."

Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.

This, I think, illustrates well the diference between evil and sin. Some have kept remarking how we are all sinners, just some are a little "better" at sinning than others. But I would like to point out that we are not all evil. We are born sinners (however much our understanding of that phrase may differ), of the lineage of Adam, under the "life sentence" of knowing both good and evil. However, we are not born evil. We become evil only through long years of choosing evil rather than good (ie. choosing the Evil One rather than the GOOD ONE).

And how do we tell the difference between evil and sin? I think your parable holds the key.

Sin is alwys self-centered and seeks its own good above that of others around them. One who sins does so from some benefit they get as the result of that sin. But evil is destructive for no other reason than that of destroying--even when its destructive acts destroys itself. We all have enough sin in us so we can understand the attraction of lust and money and power. But I trust that all of us have been "delivered from evil" at least to the extent that we find it incomprehensible and repulsive when we see acts of destruction of others' lives, marriages, characters, and reputations even then such acts bring no benefit to the one who is doing them.

Back to your parable with some questions:

In the parable the end happens. But in reality, is the end fixed? Or is there time yet to rescue the frog who was exhibiting his own inner good "nature" by his willingness to help the scorpion even in the face of known danger? At present the rushing waters swirl. The frog seems numbed. But neither the frog nor the scorpion have yet succumbed. Can the one be removed to meet his just end, and the other be revived?

As sister so often says, "Stay tuned". The final chapters of the story have not yet been written.

[Clay]

Statrei, are you sure that you do not speak for or as Danny Shelton? Are you sure that your true initials are not similar to D.S.? If a fish smells like a fish, sounds like a fish, gloats like a fish and looks like a fish, it usually is a fish.

I will not attempt to speak for Darius... but ummmm I know Darius from his years of posting on forums here and there, Darius is no Danny Shelton...and thats a good thing....

Who is the scorpion and who is the frog?

well it seems to me that those here with a tragic story to tell/share must be the frog... while Mr. Shelton whose family had Capone shaking in his boots would have to be the scorpion...

[Guest_statrei_*]

Statrei, are you sure that you do not speak for or as Danny Shelton? Are you sure that your true initials are not similar to D.S.? If a fish smells like a fish, sounds like a fish, gloats like a fish and looks like a fish, it usually is a fish.

Thereing lies your problem. You follow heroes instead of issues. You are quite willing to have someone lie and scheme as long as it is being done to support you. That is why you expect me to deny the evidence so I can further your perspective. Thanks for the offer but no thanks.

[Clay]

Thereing lies your problem. You follow heroes instead of issues. You are quite willing to have someone lie and scheme as long as it is being done to support you. That is why you expect me to deny the evidence so I can further your perspective. Thanks for the offer but no thanks.

perhaps that is why some events in human history are repeated... people are looking for leaders/heroes.... and those heroes lead them down paths that they never expected... have them do things they never believed they would do....

[Jvat]

I don't know why but somehow the latest set of discussions in this thread also remind me of the book "Lord of the Flies" where the kids lost the veneer of civilisation and everything degenerated.

Well, Clay looks like we all need heroes, persons who can make us believe that the good is all possible. Only thing, looks like we can only trust our Hero Jesus not to fail us.

This post has been edited by Jvat: Jun 9 2006, 02:22 PM

[Clay]

I don't know why but somehow the latest set of discussions in this thread also remind me of the book "Lord of the Flies" where the kids lost the veneer of civilisation and everything degenerated.

Well, Clay looks like we all need heroes, persons who can make us believe that the good is all possible. Only thing, looks like we can only trust our Hero Jesus not to fail us.

true....