An Unauthorized History of 3ABN, Chapter 8 (still more of the televangelist) Options

[gracetoyou]

There is one point that Danny has forgotten, his secrets are "open secrets". And the more those secrets are revealed publically, the more likely that he comes under the scrutiny of government officials. More than one individual has ended up behind bars at the hands of IRS investigators and many "bean counters" have become whistle blowers, providing the necessary evidence. Maybe it is time to ask those who have worked the financial side of 3ABN, "What do you have in your hands?" They may not have considered that it is they, not Danny, that have the ace in the hole in this high stakes game of chance. Actually, if Danny were as crafty as he has been credited with being, then he should be running scared about now---realizing that his future may well reside in the hands of various accountants. What do they hold in their hands? Perhaps it is the key that opens the door to an eight foot cell...now that is power.

This is what I was referring to in my post. If Danny is forced out through scandal or being incarcerated, could he close down 3ABN or would the board, who would probably be scrambling around trying to cover their own behinds, be able to choose another scandal-free leader? The demise of 3ABN would not necessarily be a catastrophe as we have the HOPE channel, but it would be nice if it were led by truly godly leadership.

This post has been edited by gracetoyou: Jun 8 2006, 11:53 AM

[Guest_statrei_*]

The demise of 3ABN would not necessarily be a catastrophe as we have the HOPE channel, but it would be nice if it were led by truly godly leadership.

Didn't everybody think Danny provided that godly leadership in the beginning? You guys are obsessed with Danny and are missing the bigger picture.

This post has been edited by statrei: Jun 8 2006, 12:27 PM

[Panama_Pete]

That is why it is called private enterprise.

That's true.

In addition, any private business person has the legal right to file for bankrupcy and liquidate their own business. People have a legal right to fail.

A nicer "jewelry store" opens down the road and people never miss the one that went under.

[Clay]

That's true.

In addition, any private business person has the legal right to file for bankrupcy and liquidate their own business. People have a legal right to fail.

A nicer "jewelry store" opens down the road and people never miss the one that went under.

just cause you open a store doesn't mean folks have to shop there, and just because customers demand certain things from your store doesn't mean you have to supply them...

[watchbird]

This is what I was referring to in my post. If Danny is forced out through scandal or being incarcerated, could he close down 3ABN or would the board, who would probably be scrambling around trying to cover their own behinds, be able to choose another scandal-free leader? The demise of 3ABN would not necessarily be a catastrophe as we have the HOPE channel, but it would be nice if it were led by truly godly leadership.

I think others have essentially answered this, though, since this sounds slightly different than your initial question, perhaps it hasn't all been sufficiently tied together.

The point really is that it is Danny who owns 3ABN, not the board, and not really any of the rest of his family. For although, as Sister (I think it was) pointed out, it is true that Danny has now added others of his family to the ownership list, history has adequately shown that it doesn't make any difference who is on the ownership list, Danny is the one who calls the shots and removes whomever he wills, whenever he wills it.

And unlike other companies where the board chairman is the truly powerful person, and "ownership" resides in the board itself, with the president "serving at the board's pleasure", the 3ABN company is owned directly only by Danny. And the board members, like his employees, serve only so long as he desires that they do so. So while the board has certain powers over him, those have only to do with money and support. At the present they are strongly supporting him not only directly from their deep pockets, but also with the power base of the whole ASI organization, and with their influence and power over Conference administrators. Until or unless they as a whole group turn on Danny themselves and demand that he step aside "for the good of the ministry" or some other esoteric phrase that means little other than that they want to keep control of the power that 3ABN gives them but have come to see Danny himself as a liability, there is little likelihood that there will be any change in "day to day management" effected. And even if that does happen there is very little chance that any such change would be any more than cosmetic, with Danny still somehow pulling the strings on what ever puppet they set up (as Sister so graphically described).

One alternative scenario that is seldom mentioned would be for Danny to fully cast his lot with the anti-SDA and Pentecostal crowds, figuring that he can gain more support from those who love to condemn the church than he can from the supporters of the church, and that the welcome he would get in Pentecostal circles were he to cast off from the Adventist church would more than make up for the loss of both revenue and support he currently gets from SDA church administrators.

It is a very complex problem and one for which (even with my sometimes overactive imagination) I have never been able to come up with any scenario that would sort things out all neatly and leave 3ABN with fully clean management and board and developing into a true "face of Adventism" to the world. I take comfort in what I believe to be a fact--that the Lord has a thousand ways to work things out that we have not even dreamed about. I think the bottom line is that we have to be patient, each doing "whatever our hand finds to do", while we wait on the Lord to accomplish what needs to be accomplished.

This is not to say merely "leave it to God" while we ignore or downplay the seriousness of the situation. It is to recognize that God nearly always uses humans as His agents in accomplishing His purposes, and to also recognize that even though we cannot individually play what seems to us to be a significant part in His work, we should still do all we can. For most of us here on BSDA that is probably no more than thinking things through, asking questions, probing, giving information whenever we have some that is appropriate to be shared, and "watching for indications of His Providence." I think we see some definite indications of that in the removal of 3ABN from two different satellites in two far apart sectors of the globe. This is not anything that any one here could have accomplished had we set out to do so.

Every day that we wait someone new hears the truth about Danny and/or others at 3ABN. Every day that we wait someone else learns through personal experience the truth of how Danny treats those who disagree with him. Eventually all of these things will come together and God will be ready to act. In the meantime, let us keep on sharing--both here on the forum and as we have opportunity in our personal contacts.

[Clay]

Eventually all of these things will come together and God will be ready to act.

God does not need for things to come together to act, especially if He did not like what was happening.... i.e. tower of babel, or some of the leaders and mixed multitude being swallowed by the earth...

[sister]

I think others have essentially answered this, though, since this sounds slightly different than your initial question, perhaps it hasn't all been sufficiently tied together.

The point really is that it is Danny who owns 3ABN, not the board, and not really any of the rest of his family. For although, as Sister (I think it was) pointed out, it is true that Danny has now added others of his family to the ownership list, history has adequately shown that it doesn't make any difference who is on the ownership list, Danny is the one who calls the shots and removes whomever he wills, whenever he wills it.

And unlike other companies where the board chairman is the truly powerful person, and "ownership" resides in the board itself, with the president "serving at the board's pleasure", the 3ABN company is owned directly only by Danny. And the board members, like his employees, serve only so long as he desires that they do so. So while the board has certain powers over him, those have only to do with money and support. At the present they are strongly supporting him not only directly from their deep pockets, but also with the power base of the whole ASI organization, and with their influence and power over Conference administrators. Until or unless they as a whole group turn on Danny themselves and demand that he step aside "for the good of the ministry" or some other esoteric phrase that means little other than that they want to keep control of the power that 3ABN gives them but have come to see Danny himself as a liability, there is little likelihood that there will be any change in "day to day management" effected. And even if that does happen there is very little chance that any such change would be any more than cosmetic, with Danny still somehow pulling the strings on what ever puppet they set up (as Sister so graphically described).

One alternative scenario that is seldom mentioned would be for Danny to fully cast his lot with the anti-SDA and Pentecostal crowds, figuring that he can gain more support from those who love to condemn the church than he can from the supporters of the church, and that the welcome he would get in Pentecostal circles were he to cast off from the Adventist church would more than make up for the loss of both revenue and support he currently gets from SDA church administrators.

It is a very complex problem and one for which (even with my sometimes overactive imagination) I have never been able to come up with any scenario that would sort things out all neatly and leave 3ABN with fully clean management and board and developing into a true "face of Adventism" to the world. I take comfort in what I believe to be a fact--that the Lord has a thousand ways to work things out that we have not even dreamed about. I think the bottom line is that we have to be patient, each doing "whatever our hand finds to do", while we wait on the Lord to accomplish what needs to be accomplished.

This is not to say merely "leave it to God" while we ignore or downplay the seriousness of the situation. It is to recognize that God nearly always uses humans as His agents in accomplishing His purposes, and to also recognize that even though we cannot individually play what seems to us to be a significant part in His work, we should still do all we can. For most of us here on BSDA that is probably no more than thinking things through, asking questions, probing, giving information whenever we have some that is appropriate to be shared, and "watching for indications of His Providence." I think we see some definite indications of that in the removal of 3ABN from two different satellites in two far apart sectors of the globe. This is not anything that any one here could have accomplished had we set out to do so.

Every day that we wait someone new hears the truth about Danny and/or others at 3ABN. Every day that we wait someone else learns through personal experience the truth of how Danny treats those who disagree with him. Eventually all of these things will come together and God will be ready to act. In the meantime, let us keep on sharing--both here on the forum and as we have opportunity in our personal contacts.

Watchbird, an excellent response to a very complex situation. I hope that everyone sees the wisdom in the last paragraph...we each have a part to play in the slow grinding that is taking place, even the smallest of cogs is necessary for the machine to function.

Thank you, for your astute comments!

[watchbird]

God does not need for things to come together to act, especially if He did not like what was happening.... i.e. tower of babel, or some of the leaders and mixed multitude being swallowed by the earth...

It is not for us to decide what God "needs". It is for us to accept that He is acting, even when we don't see any evidence of it, and to trust that He has reasons for his delay even when we want things to happen right now.

This post has been edited by watchbird: Jun 8 2006, 02:31 PM

[Clay]

Watchbird, an excellent response to a very complex situation. I hope that everyone sees the wisdom in the last paragraph...we each have a part to play in the slow grinding that is taking place, even the smallest of cogs is necessary for the machine to function.

Thank you, for your astute comments!

not quite... if God seriously disapproves, he does not need us to do anything for him to act..... then we are faced with the question does he or doesn't he approve....

Darius' comments are on point:

If you guys would just stop believing this idea that 3ABN is something God set up all this hand wringing would not be necessary. Danny had every right to install a board that agrees with him. He would be a fool to do otherwise. Employees of 3ABN are Danny's employees. His primary obligation is to obey labor laws. He has no obligation to fit into the eschatological musings of these employees.

This post has been edited by Clay: Jun 8 2006, 02:32 PM

[watchbird]

not quite... if God seriously disapproves, he does not need us to do anything for him to act..... then we are faced with the question does he or doesn't he approve....

not quite. We are not left with no ability nor guidance as to what God does and does not approve. We can figure that out without Him acting in dramatic ways in present situations.

God choosing to involve humans in his plans and actions says nothing at all about what God needs. It says a great deal, however, about what God knows that we need.

[Clay]

not quite. We are not left with no ability nor guidance as to what God does and does not approve. We can figure that out without Him acting in dramatic ways in present situations.

God choosing to involve humans in his plans and actions says nothing at all about what God needs. It says a great deal, however, about what God knows that we need.

Darius said.....

Didn't everybody think Danny provided that godly leadership in the beginning? You guys are obsessed with Danny and are missing the bigger picture.

then he said.....

If you guys would just stop believing this idea that 3ABN is something God set up all this hand wringing would not be necessary. Danny had every right to install a board that agrees with him. He would be a fool to do otherwise. Employees of 3ABN are Danny's employees. His primary obligation is to obey labor laws. He has no obligation to fit into the eschatological musings of these employees.

what else needs to be said?

[watchbird]

Darius said.....

then he said.....

what else needs to be said?

Probably nothing needs to be said. But I do not agree with the implications of what Darius has said here nor what he has said along the same lines more explicitly elsewhere.

Did God lead in the establishment of 3ABN? I think that he did. That does not mean that I think that Danny was not lying from the beginning and that his goal from the beginning was not the same as it is now--to con people into thinking he was something other than what he is--a con man out looking for the fastest buck possible.

But God uses even "the wrath of men" to glorify his name. And 3ABN has done God and the church a real and valid service, even at the same time that Danny was stealing the church members blind and that his backers were using their power to manipulate the church. It is still a fact that through 3ABN honest persons and genuine Christians have been brought into contact with Christ and with the Seventh-day Adventist church--and have been blessed in the process. For many it is their only contact with the Adventist church--or any church. For many, the only programs they watch are those that are Adventist produced, and what Danny says or does on his segments has no effect on them since they don't watch him anyhow.

There are very good reasons for the church to have a proprietary interest in 3ABN and to desire to have the evil swept away, have it come closer to the mainline church, and have it become what it has the potential of becoming--a supporting ministry of the Adventist church. Danny did not build the 3ABN audience on his own. The church itself has invested a great amount of influence, money, promotion, and utilization of it in order for it to become what it is. They have the right to want that investment to have continuing future returns. That portion of the church membership who have conscienciously supported through their financial giving--very often sacrificial financial giving--also has the right to claim a proprietary interest in not only the continuance of 3ABN, but the removal of evil, the rectifying of financial procedures, and the reclamation of as much of the stolen assets as is possible.

I realize that there are those who have such a poor opinion of the Adventist church that they rejoice with every revelation of wrongdoing since that justifies them in their denigration of the church. I am not one of those. While I recognize, probably better than the average person, just how many inconsistencies and injustices there are in the Adventist church organization, I still see those as problems that need correcting--not as evidences that the church itself is baaaaa-d and that we would all be better off just to relegate any affections we have for it to the nearest trash heap.

[Johann]

just cause you open a store doesn't mean folks have to shop there, and just because customers demand certain things from your store doesn't mean you have to supply them...

Trouble is if this store is the only one of its kind in the area, and it has a popular product that everyone wants. Just like so many seem to think that only 3ABN has the ability to produce the right kind of proclamation of the Advent Message. Are you suggesting we inform around us that the true Gospel can use other vehicles of communication than 3ABN?

[Guest_vonessa_*]

This is what I was referring to in my post. If Danny is forced out through scandal or being incarcerated, could he close down 3ABN or would the board, who would probably be scrambling around trying to cover their own behinds, be able to choose another scandal-free leader? The demise of 3ABN would not necessarily be a catastrophe as we have the HOPE channel, but it would be nice if it were led by truly godly leadership.

Do you think that the police will put Danny incarcerated? What for? When? There are some good folks who do not sin as much as he does who could do a better job, but maybe we should make sure that they are going to be scandal-freer by watching those folks closely right now rather than waiting until later.

I know that probably sounds bad, but Danny's problem is that he sins in more public and embarassing ways than a lot of other folks. At least that's what I'm picking up here. We are all sinner I know but some are just a bit better than Danny is. Give a better person a chance!

[sister]

When your jeweler builds his own SDA church, hires a pastor to suit his whims, preach the sermons he wants to hear, and to issue church disciplin to whomever he wants to curtail, and then he manages to place his general store manager on the Conference Board, he uses money earned in his jewelry store to pay for the campaign of his chosen people to be leaders and officers on different leadership levels in the Church - who is there to discipline your jeweler?

Johann, let me repeat all of this back to you to make sure we understand what is taking place inside this “Jewelry Store”:

When the Jeweler (Danny Shelton) builds his own SDA church (the 3ABN Worship Center), hires a pastor to suit his whims (John Lomacang), who preaches what he (Danny) wants to hear, and to issue church discipline to whomever he wants to curtail (Linda Shelton, etc.), and then he manages to place his general store manager (Mollie Steenson, 3ABN General Manager) on the Conference (Illinois SDA Conference Board) Board, he uses money (donations) earned in his jewelry store (3ABN) to pay for the campaign of his chosen people to be leaders and officers on different leadership levels in the Church (current Illinois Conference President and current NAD President?, etc.) - who is there to discipline your jeweler (Danny Shelton)?

A question on one point: what could possibly qualify Mollie Steenson to sit on the Illinois Conference Board? She has only been a member of the SDA church for less than six years. She has made comments that she became a Seventh-day Adventist not because of E. G. White or the Sabbath, but because 3ABN is the cutting edge ministry. Is it possible that Danny is now attempting to stack the Illinois Conference Board as he has the 3ABN Board? Johann, you have been a churchman for many years. Does this sound as suspicious to you as it does to me?

This post has been edited by sister: Jun 8 2006, 05:35 PM