A New Sda Face For 3abn...., ....well our wishlist Options

[calvin]

It is physically impossible for any of us to be filled with anything else than ourselves. That you would admit to such puerile behavior is astounding.

You're done here.

[watchbird]

Hey ... Calvin removed the padlock.

OK. Now we can go back to my questions about Wintley Phipps that Panama Pete merely began to answer. And I've got a ton of them. I'm trying to get things straightened out in my mind.

What we know is that Wintley received a million dollars from Danny Shelton for his charitable non-profit educational organization. (Well, so what, he received a million dollars from Oprah Winfrey. That doesn't imply that he agrees with everything that Oprah says or does.) But we also know that he is on 3ABN's board. That makes him somewhat responsible for the decisions that are made by that board, and if the COB's latest letters are to be believed, the board has sanctioned everything from the firing of Linda to Danny's most recent marriage as well as the way monies are allocated and used.

We've heard that Wintley wanted to build a TV network of his own. I've heard some here who have dreams of a Black TV network. Do these mesh at all? How is Wintley regarded in this community? Is the TV network that he envisions (or is working on) going to be truly his own? Or will it be no more than one more 3ABN affiliate, with Danny Shelton the mind/hand behind the curtain pulling the strings? And finally, on Pete's information below. What does it all mean? Surely no-one can execute the responsibilities of being senior pastor while having another "full-time" job. Is the pastoral position only for the purpose of allowing him to keep his ordinations credentials current? But if so, then why does he not have a lesser title, so as to clearly indicate that he had few if any responsibilities at the church which were time conflicting with another paid full time position elsewhere?

Surely someone here must have information on some or many of these questions.

http://www.pcsda.org/pc_campmeeting/CampMeetingMusic.asp

Quote:
"He currently serves as the senior pastor of the Palm Bay Seventh-day Adventist Church in Florida."

I suspect, therefore, he's also earning a full-time salary as an Adventist pastor.

[LadyTenor]

We trust that he will not be unduely inluenced by the million dollars Danny Shelton gave him.

I don't know the man personally, but I am currently attending the church he pastors with the intent of initiation a membership transfer...he does not strike me as being influenced by $$$ but I do know he has big plans for the church...perhaps he is being influenced by DS's $$$? Who knows?

Page 6, 3ABN World , August 2005

"Summary of Expansion Goals" (note: 25 pages take time to download in PDF format).

http://www.3abn.org/pdf/3ABN-World-2005-08.pdf

"Pastor Wintley Phipps, the visionary president of the U.S. Dream Academy, leads the team who are developing the new 3ABN World of Praise Network. Plans call for studios in Florida that will provide 24-hour programming for urban audiences."

A close friend of mine has been hired by Pastor Phipps in this effort...

http://www.pcsda.org/pc_campmeeting/CampMeetingMusic.asp

Quote:
"He currently serves as the senior pastor of the Palm Bay Seventh-day Adventist Church in Florida."

I suspect, therefore, he's also earning a full-time salary as an Adventist pastor.

I attend the Palm Bay SDA Church, as I mentioned earlier...and yes, he is the pastor of that church...and yes, I would probably conclude that he is on the payroll of the Southeastern Conference of SDAs...the conference under which the Palm Bay church falls...

I don’t think Danny’s reputation has been tarnished much. The divorce and re-marriage is old news. The COB letter explained it away. People have brought the explanation and moved on. All the other stuff written about him is well, hearsay that most people don’t know about or care. I would say most BSDAers don’t care much about this story. We have a few hundred people following these threads at best…and although the most vocal of those posting believe Danny must go, I don’t believe they represent the opinion of the Adventist church at-large.

The 10 Commandment Day production received rave reviews. He is given much gratitude for giving away millions of the 10 Commandment books. People still flocked to his campmeeting. I send my mother some money so she could attend. The Mark Finley, Doug Batcheror, Walter Perison’s of the Adventist world have not abandoned him with their ministries. In the scheme of things, what a few vocal folks say on BSDA does not carry much influence.

Calvin has a point here...

[watchbird]

I don't know the man personally, but I am currently attending the church he pastors with the intent of initiation a membership transfer...he does not strike me as being influenced by $$$ but I do know he has big plans for the church...perhaps he is being influenced by DS's $$$? Who knows?
A close friend of mine has been hired by Pastor Phipps in this effort...

I attend the Palm Bay SDA Church, as I mentioned earlier...and yes, he is the pastor of that church...and yes, I would probably conclude that he is on the payroll of the Southeastern Conference of SDAs...the conference under which the Palm Bay church falls...
Calvin has a point here...

Well, obviously it is a 3ABN affiliate then--which means it is under Danny's control. So I surely hope that you could make sure that Phipps and your friend read the BSDApostings on 3ABN.

[LadyTenor]

Is the pastoral position only for the purpose of allowing him to keep his ordinations credentials current? But if so, then why does he not have a lesser title, so as to clearly indicate that he had few if any responsibilities at the church which were time conflicting with another paid full time position elsewhere?

Why is Pastor Phipps' position with any ministry an issue? Many SDA pastors do this...Doug Batchelor is one example...he has a church and he has his own Amazing Facts ministry....is that any difference between Wintley Phipps and the U.S. Dream Academy?

Moreover, there are a number of lesser known SDA pastors who pastor churches and have their own ministries also. Paul Graham had a church at one time and also ran Full Circle Ministries. I don't know if he presently has a church but last I heard Full Circle was going strong.

Now, why the question about whether Pastor Phipps' pastoral position is only for the "purpose of allowing him to keep is ordinations credentials current"? He has been pastoring churches for years! He was in the DC/MD area when I was living there (I was not a member of any of his churches), and a few years ago relocated to Florida and is now currently at Palm Bay...a not so well known church until he became its pastor...I don't know what the reasoning is behind this question. Can you shed some light, watchbird, since you asked it?

Well, obviously it is a 3ABN affiliate then--which means it is under Danny's control. So I surely hope that you could make sure that Phipps and your friend read the BSDApostings on 3ABN.

I am not personally acquainted with Pastor Phipps so I will not all of a sudden put this information in his hands...I am sure I would come off as a lunatic...especially since Phipps just finished preaching during the 10 Commandments Broadcast (which aired from the Palm Bay Church).

I suspect that even if I put the information in his hand it would make no difference, but that is pure speculation on my part...

[watchbird]

Why is Pastor Phipps' position with any ministry an issue? Many SDA pastors do this...Doug Batchelor is one example...he has a church and he has his own Amazing Facts ministry....is that any difference between Wintley Phipps and the U.S. Dream Academy?

I don't know. That is why I asked the question. Please don't read any selective hostility into my question. I would hope that members of Doug Batchelor's church would also try and get him to read our information and discussions here. And likewise with other SDA pastors and evangelists who are supporting Danny by their presence on 3ABN as well as by their overt and explicit recommendation of 3ABN.

One difference that I am especially interested in is the way their salaries are handled. I have not kept up with the financial accounting for such ministries as Amazing Facts. However, in my previous experience two things stand out. First is the extremely low salaries and operating budgets that are taken out by administrators of independent mnistries. Those that I have known personally in the past have taken a mere stipend from the ministry. Second, for ministers who were paid full salary by the church and who also operated some kind of ministry on the side, those that I had any knowledge of lived entirely off of their conference salary and had well defined understandings with the conference on how much of their time was to be spent directly on their "conference job" and how much on their side-line "ministry". As I say, I have not kept up with things of this nature in many years, so I really don't know how things are handled now.

Moreover, there are a number of lesser known SDA pastors who pastor churches and have their own ministries also. Paul Graham had a church at one time and also ran Full Circle Ministries. I don't know if he presently has a church but last I heard Full Circle was going strong.

Yes, this is what I referred to above. As I said, I don't have detailed information on any of them, but so far as I know, the old "policies" against conference employees holding second jobs are still in place. Yet when the "second jobs" are ministry oriented, the conference sometimes willingly "picks up the tab" in the sense of paying the salary and allowing the person the time for the ministry.

Now, why the question about whether Pastor Phipps' pastoral position is only for the "purpose of allowing him to keep is ordinations credentials current"? He has been pastoring churches for years! He was in the DC/MD area when I was living there (I was not a member of any of his churches), and a few years ago relocated to Florida and is now currently at Palm Bay...a not so well known church until he became its pastor...I don't know what the reasoning is behind this question. Can you shed some light, watchbird, since you asked it?

Yes, I think I can. And it relates in a way to what I said above, but to a different way of handling what could be seen as a conflict of interest between a full time minister and a full time ministry employee.

The basic policy that is involved has to do with the renewal of ministerial credentials--which I think must be done every 5 years, though the time interval is not important to our discussion here. The real point here is that in order to renew their credentials, the person must be actively connected to a church in the position of a pastor--or whatever job he holds that entitles him to ministerial credentials, which could be teacher or administrator, etc.

Now another way of handling the person with a full time ministry other than the conference position is for the conference to contract with him for a discreet amount of his time, give him ministerial credentials for this, but allow him to support himself by his personal, independent ministry activities. I know of some musician/seminarists who have this kind of contractual arrangement with their local conference. They are listed on the Conference rolls as the minister, they are assigned a particular church as their responsibility , they are even, if they otherwise qualify, issued ministerial credentials and have access to all ministerial materials, conventions, etc. But the Conference does not have them on their payrolls.

So my question was not a challenging one, but one asking for information, whether or not Phipps might have this kind of arrangement. If he does, it makes the 130,000 per year salary as president of his education ministry much more palatable than as if he is being paid for full time work by both Conference and his ministry--at least in my opinion.

I am not personally acquainted with Pastor Phipps so I will not all of a sudden put this information in his hands...I am sure I would come off as a lunatic...especially since Phipps just finished preaching during the 10 Commandments Broadcast (which aired from the Palm Bay Church).

I suspect that even if I put the information in his hand it would make no difference, but that is pure speculation on my part.

I would hope that it would. As Bear has noted, there is really almost no opportunity for board members or others who are currently in Danny's favor to learn anything other than what Danny or the Chairman of the Board tell them. But I understand your reticence. Just keep it in mind and watch for the leading of the Lord in the matter.

[sonshineonme]

Watching 3ABN right now, while Danny and the troops (and I mean all of them, John, Mollie and Hal is doing the sermon today in PA ralley) and Danny has Brandy close at his side....makes me think all kinds of things, like WHY he has her right there...could he be feeling a bit insecure at the moment? It'a incredible to hear the words from his mouth as he self-condems himself - he should listen to his own words. After all, he does like to hear himself talk (and likes getting the laughs, probably to make himself feel better too).

I decided to tune in (I rarely watch him now) to check his behavior...I hope all those who know him well are observing. It's interesting to say the least.

[beartrap]

Watching 3ABN right now, while Danny and the troops (and I mean all of them, John, Mollie and Hal is doing the sermon today in PA ralley) and Danny has Brandy close at his side....makes me think all kinds of things, like WHY he has her right there...could he be feeling a bit insecure at the moment? It'a incredible to hear the words from his mouth as he self-condems himself - he should listen to his own words. After all, he does like to hear himself talk (and likes getting the laughs, probably to make himself feel better too).

I decided to tune in (I rarely watch him now) to check his behavior...I hope all those who know him well are observing. It's interesting to say the least.

Sorry. Some of us who know him well know better than to watch, because we know that we will soon be regurgitating our breakfasts. Coffee is really bad coming back up. Perhaps we could distribute videos of the program as the healthy replacement for ipecac (spelling?... a drug that causes one to puke). We could put it on the ABC shelves and cause a mass movement of reversal in the Adventist church. The cure to the problems caused by swallowing all the poisonous doodoo he has fed the church for so long.

This post has been edited by beartrap: Jul 15 2006, 02:03 PM

[Hersheys99]

Sorry. Some of us who know him well know better than to watch, because we that we will soon be regurgitating our breakfasts. Coffee is really bad coming back up. Perhaps we could distribute videos of the program as the healthy replacement for ipecac (spelling?... a drug that causes one to puke). We could put it on the ABC shelves and cause a mass movement of reversal in the Adventist church. The cure to the problems caused by swallowing all the poisonous doodoo he has fed the church for so long.

PRICELESS!!

I personally can't hardly stand to watch him & I definitely had to turn it off when Kenny & Chris were on too. After reading some of the things from the letters being shared here I have a feeling there are going to be even less of them I care to see.

[PaperTigers]

PRICELESS!!

I personally can't hardly stand to watch him & I definitely had to turn it off when Kenny & Chris were on too. After reading some of the things from the letters being shared here I have a feeling there are going to be even less of them I care to see.

It's about time !!!
I can't even stand to here his voice anymore ... it's sad, it really is.

[Uncle Sam]

Watching 3ABN right now, while Danny and the troops (and I mean all of them, John, Mollie and Hal is doing the sermon today in PA ralley) and Danny has Brandy close at his side....makes me think all kinds of things, like WHY he has her right there...could he be feeling a bit insecure at the moment? It'a incredible to hear the words from his mouth as he self-condems himself - he should listen to his own words. After all, he does like to hear himself talk (and likes getting the laughs, probably to make himself feel better too).

I decided to tune in (I rarely watch him now) to check his behavior...I hope all those who know him well are observing. It's interesting to say the least.

Did Danny say anything about "the letter" today? Or make a reference to it?

[sonshineonme]

Did Danny say anything about "the letter" today? Or make a reference to it?

NOPE! At least not in the afternoon program that we watched (we are on the west coast, so when they started their afteroon program in PA, it was morning here. I just happened to tune it in on the website - we do not have the satelite/reveicer set up). But you can bet he's thinking about it - he did have a BUSY week this week....I am sure this is why Brandy was glued to his left side, silent and smiling.

[LadyTenor]

Please don't read any selective hostility into my question.

There is no hostility, selective or otherwise. This is a discussion board, isn't it?

One difference that I am especially interested in is the way their salaries are handled. I have not kept up with the financial accounting for such ministries as Amazing Facts. However, in my previous experience two things stand out. First is the extremely low salaries and operating budgets that are taken out by administrators of independent mnistries. Those that I have known personally in the past have taken a mere stipend from the ministry. Second, for ministers who were paid full salary by the church and who also operated some kind of ministry on the side, those that I had any knowledge of lived entirely off of their conference salary and had well defined understandings with the conference on how much of their time was to be spent directly on their "conference job" and how much on their side-line "ministry". As I say, I have not kept up with things of this nature in many years, so I really don't know how things are handled now.

I know less than you about these things, but there are some people I could ask, if you are interested...

As I said, I don't have detailed information on any of them, but so far as I know, the old "policies" against conference employees holding second jobs are still in place. Yet when the "second jobs" are ministry oriented, the conference sometimes willingly "picks up the tab" in the sense of paying the salary and allowing the person the time for the ministry.

And it relates in a way to what I said above, but to a different way of handling what could be seen as a conflict of interest between a full time minister and a full time ministry employee.

The basic policy that is involved has to do with the renewal of ministerial credentials--which I think must be done every 5 years, though the time interval is not important to our discussion here. The real point here is that in order to renew their credentials, the person must be actively connected to a church in the position of a pastor--or whatever job he holds that entitles him to ministerial credentials, which could be teacher or administrator, etc.

Now another way of handling the person with a full time ministry other than the conference position is for the conference to contract with him for a discreet amount of his time, give him ministerial credentials for this, but allow him to support himself by his personal, independent ministry activities. I know of some musician/seminarists who have this kind of contractual arrangement with their local conference. They are listed on the Conference rolls as the minister, they are assigned a particular church as their responsibility , they are even, if they otherwise qualify, issued ministerial credentials and have access to all ministerial materials, conventions, etc. But the Conference does not have them on their payrolls.

I know nothing about renewal of ministerial credentials, but I will state, in my opinion, that I don't believe Pastor Phipps is pastoring my church just to keep his credentials...he is a very involved minister, from what others at the church tell me, so I don't think he is there just for the sake of his credentials...

So my question was not a challenging one, but one asking for information, whether or not Phipps might have this kind of arrangement. If he does, it makes the 130,000 per year salary as president of his education ministry much more palatable than as if he is being paid for full time work by both Conference and his ministry--at least in my opinion.

In my opinion, one has nothing to do with the other...so what if a minister is pulling good money? So long as s/he is doing his/her job and doing it properly without compromise, I don't see the problem...

...I will have to respectfully disagree with you that your question was not a challenging one. I think it was...but that is entirely appropriate here, as this is a discussion community known for getting deep into issues and not just scratching the surface...so your question was indeed challenging and equally appropriate.

As Bear has noted, there is really almost no opportunity for board members or others who are currently in Danny's favor to learn anything other than what Danny or the Chairman of the Board tell them. But I understand your reticence. Just keep it in mind and watch for the leading of the Lord in the matter.

I'd never put that kind of information in anyone's hand...what I am capable of, OTOH, is telling someone to visit BlackSDA.com and read for themselves...

Watching 3ABN right now, while Danny and the troops (and I mean all of them, John, Mollie and Hal is doing the sermon today in PA ralley) and Danny has Brandy close at his side....makes me think all kinds of things, like WHY he has her right there...could he be feeling a bit insecure at the moment? It'a incredible to hear the words from his mouth as he self-condems himself - he should listen to his own words. After all, he does like to hear himself talk (and likes getting the laughs, probably to make himself feel better too).

I decided to tune in (I rarely watch him now) to check his behavior...I hope all those who know him well are observing. It's interesting to say the least.

Sorry. Some of us who know him well know better than to watch, because we know that we will soon be regurgitating our breakfasts. Coffee is really bad coming back up. Perhaps we could distribute videos of the program as the healthy replacement for ipecac (spelling?... a drug that causes one to puke). We could put it on the ABC shelves and cause a mass movement of reversal in the Adventist church. The cure to the problems caused by swallowing all the poisonous doodoo he has fed the church for so long.

In light of the "Call to Action" thread that Calvin started, perhaps another action would be to stop paying for 3ABN service and watching it. If enough folks did that, would it hit Danny's pocketbook??

And even if it didn't, you have the personal satisfaction of knowing you are not supporting a man who is not on the up and up...

[sonshineonme]

There is no hostility, selective or otherwise. This is a discussion board, isn't it?
I know less than you about these things, but there are some people I could ask, if you are interested...
I know nothing about renewal of ministerial credentials, but I will state, in my opinion, that I don't believe Pastor Phipps is pastoring my church just to keep his credentials...he is a very involved minister, from what others at the church tell me, so I don't think he is there just for the sake of his credentials...
In my opinion, one has nothing to do with the other...so what if a minister is pulling good money? So long as s/he is doing his/her job and doing it properly without compromise, I don't see the problem...

...I will have to respectfully disagree with you that your question was not a challenging one. I think it was...but that is entirely appropriate here, as this is a discussion community known for getting deep into issues and not just scratching the surface...so your question was indeed challenging and equally appropriate.
I'd never put that kind of information in anyone's hand...what I am capable of, OTOH, is telling someone to visit BlackSDA.com and read for themselves...
In light of the "Call to Action" thread that Calvin started, perhaps another action would be to stop paying for 3ABN service and watching it. If enough folks did that, would it hit Danny's pocketbook??

And even if it didn't, you have the personal satisfaction of knowing you are not supporting a man who is not on the up and up...

I officially announce, I will not watch him again. I could hardly stand it today for the short time I had it on. Between Danny and his trophy wife, and then Hal's preaching, it was all I could do to leave it on while I got ready for church.

[LadyTenor]

Well, obviously it is a 3ABN affiliate then--which means it is under Danny's control. So I surely hope that you could make sure that Phipps and your friend read the BSDApostings on 3ABN.

I am not personally acquainted with Pastor Phipps so I will not all of a sudden put this information in his hands...I am sure I would come off as a lunatic...especially since Phipps just finished preaching during the 10 Commandments Broadcast (which aired from the Palm Bay Church).

I suspect that even if I put the information in his hand it would make no difference, but that is pure speculation on my part...

I wanted to clarify and expound upon this comment I made. I am not suggesting that Danny is paying off Pastor Phipps, or that he is even available for payoff. But Pastor Phipps, or any reasonable person in his position, is probably weighing breaking ties with 3ABN against assistance furthering a ministry. I'm not judging him or anyone in his position, but obviously each person will not make the same decision if in this situation. Now, while I don't know what Pastor Phipps knows, I will hesitate to belive he knows nothing about this situation, given the fact he is on 3ABN's board of directors...but, like many have said here, perhaps most of the board knows only one side of the story--Danny's...