Fallible's questions regarding 3ABN, his observations and skepticism Options

[Chez]

A young lady walked along a path in the woods. The sun was shining, and the birds were singing. she saw where someone had diverged from the path and created a shortcut. "Aha!" she said to herself. "I will save a little time here." The shortcut was heavily flowered, and the way looked even better than the established path. "See?" she thought, "Somone has finally become smarter than the people who run this forest, and created something that really works better for the denizens of the woods.

She walked merrily down the shortcut path enjoying the many flowers that didn't seem to grow on the regular path. "Oh, every body really should start following this path" she thought, "It is so much more efficient and the way to the end is so much quicker." Suddenly she found herself sinking in a quicksand bog. As she started to sink, she noticed that past the bog, the flowers were thick with thorns. turning her head, she finally noticed that so were the flowers that she had passed along her way. Grabbing at a thorny vine which tore her hands to shreds, she slowly pulled herself out of the quicksand, and hurried back to the main path. "I must warn the others" she thought.

As many people came along the path and noticed, with delight, the shortcut, she cried out, "Please, don't take the shortcut. those flowers you see are covered with thorns, and there is a quicksand bog in which you will drown. Please! Stay on the path!"

"This horrible woman is telling a bunch of rumors!" many of the people groused. "She is trying to keep a great thing from happening. Yes, she may have thought she experienced something bad, but we can see that this path is strewn with flowers, and it is a faster route to the destination. She is a rumor-mongering, tale-spreading hussie for saying such things about something that is such a blessing. Look at all the happy people walking down that path. She should be stoned for trying to divert us from the true path."

Many people walked down that path, were torn by thorns, and fell into the bog. Some pulled themeselves out by the thorny vine, and others sunk to their demise, choosing to believe they were still on the better path, and still shouting back that the path was beautiful.

Tremendous abuse was heaped on the woman who chose to warn the people about the shortcut, but many lives were saved by her warnings, and this, to her, was worth the abuse she suffered day after day.

Excellent!

[Clay]

"sister"

I have to wonder how God and His Son Jesus must feel sitting in heaven watching this kind of nonsense - and it truly is the epitome of the word since it is devoid of any Christian common sense.

Now if you and everyone involved here wants to sit back and have some "fun" at the expense of other human beings fine - but don't do it in the guise of The Lord's Work. Unless I have missed a chapter or verse I don't recall ever reading in the Bible that it is another human beings responsibility to defame, demean, or pass judgement against another child of God on this earth. God calls sin by it's name, that is His right and we are to call it by its name - but in our own lives! Have you extricated the plank from your own eye, any of you - I know I haven't and I pray daily to be able to remove my hands from it and let God's hands remove it permanently.

Quite honestly this (and the other threads in the 3ABN section) smack of the pious rich man thanking God that he wasn't like the poor sinner.

snip...

thank you for sharing your opinion, and welcome to the forum... I don't agree with anything you have posted thus far except for one thing.... yes you are fallible as are we all....

[IMM]

Ah yes, Inga, that was my first thought--fallible_humanbeing = Shelton alter ego...

[Daryl Fawcett]

Something is obviously happening that has pressured Danny Shelton into taking this leave of absence, which, hopefully, will end up being a permanent leave of absence.

[Uncle Sam]

Something is obviously happening that has pressured Danny Shelton into taking this leave of absence, which, hopefully, will end up being a permanent leave of absence.

Is this leave of absence like when President Bush takes a vacation? He is still "running the country" just not in the White House???

[September]

Hmmm, I received a letter that sounded a lot like this one from Danny--only it was a lot more vindictive and attacking--but the same underlying message was there--get off the computer and evangelize. Me thinks me smells a RAT!

"sister"

I have to wonder how God and His Son Jesus must feel sitting in heaven watching this kind of nonsense - and it truly is the epitome of the word since it is devoid of any Christian common sense.

Now if you and everyone involved here wants to sit back and have some "fun" at the expense of other human beings fine - but don't do it in the guise of The Lord's Work. Unless I have missed a chapter or verse I don't recall ever reading in the Bible that it is another human beings responsibility to defame, demean, or pass judgement against another child of God on this earth. God calls sin by it's name, that is His right and we are to call it by its name - but in our own lives! Have you extricated the plank from your own eye, any of you - I know I haven't and I pray daily to be able to remove my hands from it and let God's hands remove it permanently.

Quite honestly this (and the other threads in the 3ABN section) smack of the pious rich man thanking God that he wasn't like the poor sinner.

If your accusations are true - and based on reading all the posts in these threads over the past few months there is a significant lack of voracity for the truth here - then do not fear reprisal and make your identity known. You call for truth and evidence and a forthcoming spirit from the "other side" - I challenge you to make the first step! Post a picture, a real name, all the other information that would give credence to your claims. Lest anyone respond with a comment of "hypocrisy" here, if "sister" and all the other nameless souls here will come out of hiding - so will I.

If you are about God's work - then be about it. But if you are about your own - vengence, spite, anger, condemnation then move your vendeta somewhere else - only you know why you would take God's work and turn it into a trivialized game for which you are the master decision maker.

All of us - get off the computer, go to our neighbors, pray with them, show them the true love of God and hasten His return. What is accomplished here - nothing! What new soul is lead to the all ways forgiving love of the Father by your hours spent here - none. Come here - lift each other up, deepen your love relationship with your Saviour and take this glow to others - stop the hate, stop the false accusations, stop the salacious innuendo, stop being about the Devil's business. Be about God's - loving them that hate you, despise you, speak ill will of you, persecute you . . . Let God heal the pain in your soul that leads you here to wreak havoc on the lives of others and lead even more down the path of backbiting, gossip, and slander.

Lift God up, lift your fellow man up, lift your own soul up to Him who can heal you and make you whole! Lay your heart bare on the alter for His cleansing touch. Leave behind the work of the Dark One and lay hold to the light, the Light at the end of the world - Jesus. Be happy. Be assured that God IS in control - not me, not you, not any of the other posters here, not Danny, the Board, the Conferences or Unions or Divisions. God's people are in His hands - the world IS His and He will make all right.

My Hope is in Him - not myself,

- fallible

[awesumtenor]

Except possibly within an online discussion where not all posts are read, context is often absent, and tossing out something like that can be misconstrued as "truth" as a discussion starter.

For instance, what "IF" I posted here and claimed that I knew you were the wife of the Lake Region Conference President and you had a personal axe to grind with one of the employees of 3ABN. But - I began it this way:

"I heard that PrincessDi is the wife of the Lake Region Conference President, and she had a run in with so-and-so at 3ABN and THAT is why she is so vehemently against 3ABN and its ministry - can anyone tell me if this is true?"

Now, a wander in here who happens across it but doesn't bother to see if there is any support or denial of this statement might just very well head out the door with this tidbit in their minds as truth.

Online dialogue is dangerous.

- fallible

Only to those who don't know... but seeing that there are many here who know each other not just as names on a computer screen but in real life as well, those of us who know Di outside of BSDA would tell you to put down the crack pipe and slowly back away... and that would be enough folk that those who didnt know would realize that you were out of your tree for saying something like that.

The same applies to the 3ABN issue. This is just not a bunch of church folks gossiping at a potluck; the ones talking about things going on there are people who know Danny Shelton and who have worked with him for years... It's people who have been members of the 3ABN board... it's people who are *in his family*. If it was one or two people, you could credibly say maybe is a disgruntled ex-employee or what have you... but for you to say, in spite of the growing mountain of evidence that you see nothing credible, then you need to change the first part of your screen name from 'fallible' to 'gullible'... and while you're at it... I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn... cash please, in small bills...

In His service,
Mr. J

[summertime]

Hmmm, I received a letter that sounded a lot like this one from Danny--only it was a lot more vindictive and attacking--but the same underlying message was there--get off the computer and evangelize. Me thinks me smells a RAT!

Fallible, take a week or so off to vacation, and soulsearch--let us all know how you are when you arrive at your destination. A great orator may need a break. All notorized statements will be waiting when you arrive.

This post has been edited by summertime: Aug 11 2006, 04:51 PM

[summertime]

Ah yes, Inga, that was my first thought--fallible_humanbeing = Shelton alter ego...

Do ghostwriters speak with a fallible and human voice? Does one sound very educated and imaginable.? Never met one--- Just asking.

This post has been edited by summertime: Aug 11 2006, 04:49 PM

[sonshineonme]

Hmmm, I received a letter that sounded a lot like this one from Danny--only it was a lot more vindictive and attacking--but the same underlying message was there--get off the computer and evangelize. Me thinks me smells a RAT!

Does Mollie count as an shelton-alter-ego? I think so.....
I can't almost stand her "preaching". There is something very see-through about it...or is it just me?

[fallible humanbe...]

To all those who have so far made the assumption that this is Danny - or even in anyway connected to Danny, the board, or 3ABN - sorry to disappoint you.

I am not Danny, I am not a board member, I am not anyone who is in anyway attached to 3ABN. I am a simple lay person who has read all the posts here, the novella The Televangalist and the The Unofficial History of 3ABN, as well as listened to 3ABN for years, read threads on other forums, read the fund raising materials from Danny and Linda, and have listened to this discussed extensivly at potlucks and in the foyers of a number of churches. So my thoughts are based on much information. Here I see one side of the story and as far as I can tell only one side. The occassional email from Danny or Dr. Thompson or Kay Kuzma does not qualify as giving balance to the discussion.

The fact that all so far disagree with me doesn't matter. You can attack my character, my intellect, my position - but I still do not have to agree with you to be right. As a matter of fact I am not here to be right - just to partake in this discussion. I won't apologize for not agreeing with some of the things said here, the tactics taken, or the untruths presented. Are there truths here - my lifes experience tell me probably. Do the people here know the "whole" story - oncde again experience tells me No - unless you were in the pocket of Danny or Linda each and every day of their lives together and heard each and ever conversation, witnessed each and every action.

Humans easily leave out details - intentional or unintentional it still happens. I don't profess to know all the details - can't. But what I do know is that 3ABN as reached tens of thousands of souls for Christ (as have the programs coming out of California).

I will apologize in advance if I don't respond to each and every one of your posts individually - but with so many of you on that side of the aisle and myself over here, seemingly alone, I will do my best to respond to you - unless of course it is to tell me to go on vacation or some other nonsense.

I will ask you questions and seek to hear more from this one side of the story in an effort to make a decision for myself. If I don't buy what you're selling - you'll havce to deal with it, maybe don't bother answering or responding, but don't expect me to buy your wares lock, stock and barrel. Don't expect me to not ask questions or even challenge you because I want to know for myself and will not accept the thoguht of another as my own.

In God I Trust

- falllible

(and yes I am, and not afraid to admit it, because - - - I have been made whole by my God)

Do ghostwriters speak with a fallible and human voice? Does one sound very educated and imaginable.? Never met one--- Just asking.

[watchbird]

Do ghostwriters speak with a fallible and human voice? Does one sound very educated and imaginable.? Never met one--- Just asking.

Like an echo, a good ghostwriter will speak with the same accent and syntax as the person for which he is "ghosting"....... only better. But "better" in the sense of sounding, as one man put it, "more like me than what I do myself". If one is ghostwriting for someone who sounds educated and imaginable....... then that sound comes through. But only if .........

[fallible humanbe...]

PT,

Just so you can rest easy know that I have read all the posts I can access here, read the novella The Telecvangalist and the lengthier Unofficial History of 3ABN as well as materials from 3ABN, the 3ABN website, mailings from 3ABN, listened to conversations at potlucks and in the foyers of churches. I have talked to pastors, church leaders and anyone I thought might be able to give me information.

I am sorry if this doesn't enable you to make it seem if I am uninformed, uneducated, and unable to take part in this conversation - but I am not lost here. So if I don't agree with you, that is something you will have to grapple with - I am going to ask questions, I am going to listen - but don't expect me to believe you just because you say something, just because you say it is from personal experience. I may give you the benefit of the doubt - but I may very well disagree with you outright. I will make my own decision on this issue and not be badgered, belittled or shouted out. I want to know the truth - and quite frankly don't feel I have gotten it fully from anywhere - including here.

I don't konw if I will see this space the way you described it - but I am open to that possiblity. Currently I don't. But, time can change things.

- fallible

fallible,
if you would actually sit down and read all of the posts you would see that we are just people seeking answers.. some of us do have first hand experience. i will say that i worked there for a while... you may ask why we aren't more open with exactly who we are... and if you are asking this question than you don't know much about Danny or how he operates.. for safety reasons i think a lot of us have remained anonymous for the time being..
i am not ashamed of who i am nor am i deliberately trying to hide myself.. i hope that you will eventually see this board as i see it... a group of loving, caring people who are just seeking answers and the truth...

~PaperTigers

PP,

Just an addendum to my recent post.

>When I said people don't do things to us, I mean just that. People do things - usually with their >own best interest at heart, sometimes without thinking - but never to us. Infact we are probably >the last person on their mind when they do things.

>>Maybe I have misunderstood your post here, but I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH YOU. People >>INTENTIONALLY do things to us to HURT us all the time. WE have a choice how we will respond. >>People who use their power to abuse us in some way are deliberate in their actions.

You don't have to agree with me, totally or partially. That doesn't make me wrong. This is simply what I believe. I believe that if one goes around thinking that everyone is "doing stuff to me" you relinquish all the power you have to live your life - you become a victim, a powerless victim.

>So, don't worry so much about what the other guy is doing - what are YOU doing to spread the >love of God through all the earth so we can go home? Share because maybe I can learn >something about bringing souls to Christ.

>>Do you live on the same planet I do? I can spread the word and love of Jesus AND also call >>wrong where I see it. There is evil all around us, some of it is disquised unless you look a bit >>closer, and there are most definitely times to say NO because that is FALSE teaching. How can >>you know what is true and false unless you look at it? It's not about "worrying", it's about using >>your brain.

Well unless I am mistaken there are no Internet connections in space or on any other planets - so I guess you have to accept the fact that yes, I am on the same planet as you . . . and no I do not agree with you.

- fallible

[fallible humanbe...]

Clay,

Did any of the martyrs in this earths history stand behind a false identity. If what is spoken is the truth then speak that hard truth with your own mouth, and your face seen.

A few quotes from Emerson come to mind here:

"Whoso would be a man (and I would add - or a real woman), must be a nonconformist… It is easy in the world to live after the world’s opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own; but the great man (or woman) is one who in the midst of the crowd keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude."

"Speak what you think now in hard words and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day… Your genuine action will explain itself and will explain your other genuine actions. Your conformity explains nothing.”

There doesn't seem to be any openness here to a dissenting voice - even one who only claims to not be buying the entirety of either sides story. If this doesn't sit well here then this isn't a forum, but rather a closed discussion where you can only take part if you sign off on the dotted line of perscribed line of thought (not unlike todays political parties I might say).

- fallible

And that is important because? I am not going to try to interpret the motive for your question but I would bet that if it were you who had personally been mistreated and were fearful of someone trying to get you, you would not be jumping at the opportunity to tell everyone who you are...

[sonshineonme]

To all those who have so far made the assumption that this is Danny - or even in anyway connected to Danny, the board, or 3ABN - sorry to disappoint you.

I am not Danny, I am not a board member, I am not anyone who is in anyway attached to 3ABN. I am a simple lay person who has read all the posts here, the novella The Televangalist and the The Unofficial History of 3ABN, as well as listened to 3ABN for years, read threads on other forums, read the fund raising materials from Danny and Linda, and have listened to this discussed extensivly at potlucks and in the foyers of a number of churches. So my thoughts are based on much information. Here I see one side of the story and as far as I can tell only one side. The occassional email from Danny or Dr. Thompson or Kay Kuzma does not qualify as giving balance to the discussion.

The fact that all so far disagree with me doesn't matter. You can attack my character, my intellect, my position - but I still do not have to agree with you to be right. As a matter of fact I am not here to be right - just to partake in this discussion. I won't apologize for not agreeing with some of the things said here, the tactics taken, or the untruths presented. Are there truths here - my lifes experience tell me probably. Do the people here know the "whole" story - oncde again experience tells me No - unless you were in the pocket of Danny or Linda each and every day of their lives together and heard each and ever conversation, witnessed each and every action.

Humans easily leave out details - intentional or unintentional it still happens. I don't profess to know all the details - can't. But what I do know is that 3ABN as reached tens of thousands of souls for Christ (as have the programs coming out of California).

I will apologize in advance if I don't respond to each and every one of your posts individually - but with so many of you on that side of the aisle and myself over here, seemingly alone, I will do my best to respond to you - unless of course it is to tell me to go on vacation or some other nonsense.

I will ask you questions and seek to hear more from this one side of the story in an effort to make a decision for myself. If I don't buy what you're selling - you'll havce to deal with it, maybe don't bother answering or responding, but don't expect me to buy your wares lock, stock and barrel. Don't expect me to not ask questions or even challenge you because I want to know for myself and will not accept the thoguht of another as my own.

In God I Trust

- falllible

(and yes I am, and not afraid to admit it, because - - - I have been made whole by my God)

Most of what you said, makes good sense. BUT, I must repeat again, God gave us a brain to decipher, tare apart and see and discover where things go terribly wrong. It is in our nature. This is why you will read, ask questions, etc., as I assume.

What I don't understand about you, and maybe time will take care of this, is why you are not willing to see that you don't have to be in the back pocket of Danny and Linda for 20 years to know what has happened here! There are things that don't and have not made sense for 2.5 years. The psyche tells you something is very wrong. You don't get to get answers to all your questions. You are forced, with the puzzle pieces given, to assess what has happened and go from there. It does not make sense, nor were we made that way, to ignore when your gut says "wait, that doesn't sound right". You pay attention to the signals, signs and "fruits" to know for yourself what has gone wrong.

There are indeed two sides to every story. No one is blameless to some degree. But in some cases, you have a MAJORITY, or a "conspiracy" working behind the scenes to fool those that would be fooled - they are a target audience because they WANT to believe what they want to see, based on one side of the story, instead of accepting what they learn if they will take their head out of the sane and seek more information, along with evidence that can also be obtained. You don't have to know every detail. But many of us have been along for the ride for some time now, some WAY back, that have no axe to grind, only that they are appalled that people continue to look away SIMPLY because that is easier, more comfortable, and what happens is the deeds and acts are only perpetuated. In every case like this, time eventually stops and the ride has to end. The ride will end whether you and I agree or not. The truth always finds it's way to the top - for God is indeed in charge.

There are many many people that can give testimony to how things have been run at 3abn, people have been treated and manipulated, and deals made. Like it or not - they exist and my guess is that once fear is removed from the picture, more will be likely to speak up. It's too bad that they feel trapped in fear to speak, but my guess they will be encouraged more and more as time goes by. Keep looking. Get your head out of the "uptopia" sand pit that people want to believe exists, for if people are so easily fooled because they won't take time to know the real story of what happened to Linda, with all the witness', and also the stories of so many others, just think what they will fall for next.