Fallible's questions regarding 3ABN, his observations and skepticism Options

[BrotherBill]

I don't have to refute anything at this point because I haven't done anything other than say I am skeptical - and rightly so, as anyone should be in a he said/she said situation. I don't believe I will find the truth in one place - but will find what is available by going to each place it is being discussed and asking questions - then and only then making a decision for myself.

- fallible

I respect your right to be skeptical, as I often am. In this case you can choose to believe what you want. I do not judge you. I am quite comfortable saying that this is not a "he said/she said" situation because it absolutely is not. I don't expect you to believe me, as that is not my goal.
Can you let us know what specific issues, point by point, you are having trouble with in this or other discussion threads?

This post has been edited by Clay: Aug 12 2006, 01:17 AM

[calvin]

AT,

As I mentioned before - this tired routine of trying to roust me because I don't agree isn't going to work. I want the truth - and if I don't believe you it isn't my job to tell you why. I have heard much from both sides and this area seems to feel they have a perponderance of the Linda side of the story - so here I am reading and asking questions. Why do you feel threatened because I refuse to jump when you ask.

Interesting that I have to go through the hazing in order to be given a chance to ask questions - but I will and I will ask the questions I seek answers to - don't bother responding if you are threatened my reticence to just accept as truth what is here - simply because it is here. If it the truth it will be come evident and I will add it to what I have heard other places.

I don't have to refute anything at this point because I haven't done anything other than say I am skeptical - and rightly so, as anyone should be in a he said/she said situation. I don't believe I will find the truth in one place - but will find what is available by going to each place it is being discussed and asking questions - then and only then making a decision for myself.

Sorry, the seat is mine - and if I lean over and ask you what the teacher just said, are you going to turn away from me becasue I didn't agree with you on some point? Is this a discussion, a place to seek truth, or a place only the "faithful believers" come and preach to the choir?

In His Service,

- fallible

Those that know me know that one thing I can’t stand is whiners. Get the chip off your shoulder. I am tired reading of you being tired of how you are treated because you are in the minority on this subject or being rousted as you put it. You knew the vocal members on this subject where pro Linda supports before you started posting here. If you don’t think BSDA is open enough for you then leave. But I am not going to listen to you whining about my house.

You got points to make, then make them and be prepared to defend them. That’s all that’s needed.

BTW, you got a seat at the table as long as I allow you to have the seat.

[fallible humanbe...]

Freedom,

Isn't it the modus operendi to use a pseudonym when posting here? Okay, sarcasm aside . . .

I have not worked at 3ABN, that isn't a prerequisite to discovering the truth is it? I am not working there now.

I will allow you that personally you don't feel I am cognizant of what happens at 3ABN, that I am not privy to what goes on behind the scenes - but if I were in either camp I sure would be worried about Toto running up and pulling the curtain aside - IF what has been presented by both sides is anywhere near the truth. You are free to believe what you will about me - that isn't my concern.

Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged." but that is only a piece of the advice

M 7: 2 and 3 "2: For in the same way you judge others, you will be judgedm and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3: Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

Have I passed judgement on an individual here? Please show me. I have said I don't believe some of what is presented here - and I am not sure about other information. If you feel judged by that, my apologizes - but I am not going to bail on my quest.

If you truly seek my identity I am sure you can find a way to reach me and we can talk. Oh yes, I jumped in already and I am not getting out of the pool.

- fallible

Thank you Calvin !

Falliable, who are you to judge what identiy people are using? Your not usiing your identiy.
Obviously, you have not worked or are working in the 3ABN otherwise you wouldn't make the statement about using your true identity.

Personally, I don't think you have any idea what lengths the management at 3ABN will go to abuse, slander or hurt people.

Falliable, please read Matt. 7:1 and ponder on the text before you jump in here with some of the statements you've made.

Freedom

Calvin,

Have I been disrespectful? I don't think so. Am I going to make it clear that I am hear not to take one side or the other - but rather to seek insight - sure.

How many posts have told me to leave thus far? And now you threaten to drop me because I will not be viewed as a "Danny supporter" and at the same time don't buy into Linda's story either.

Okay here is a question:

Does this area of your discussion board see itself as the heir aparent to the reign at 3ABN?

Another:

Has it ever been presented here that this forum will bring down 3ABN and replaced it with a Linda run entity? Or that it has the power to do so?

Another:

Where does this group derive it's authority to lay claim to the reigns at 3ABN?

One last question - don't you want this to be an open discussion? Or is this a one sided discussion board - meaing can no one come in and disagree or at least be skeptical?

- fallible

Those that know me know that one thing I can’t stand is whiners. Get the chip off your shoulder. I am tired reading of you being tired of how you are treated because you are in the minority on this subject or being rousted as you put it. You knew the vocal members on this subject where pro Linda supports before you started posting here. If you don’t think BSDA is open enough for you then leave. But I am not going to listen to you whining about my house.

You got points to make, then make them and be prepared to defend them. That’s all that’s needed.

BTW, you got a seat at the table as long as I allow you to have the seat.

[awesumtenor]

AT,

As I mentioned before - this tired routine of trying to roust me because I don't agree isn't going to work. I want the truth - and if I don't believe you it isn't my job to tell you why. I have heard much from both sides and this area seems to feel they have a perponderance of the Linda side of the story - so here I am reading and asking questions. Why do you feel threatened because I refuse to jump when you ask.

You are not worth either the time or the effort to 'roust' you; I am making the point that your entire presentation has been essentially a string of logical fallacies and you have neither refuted anything that has been said nor have you made anything resembling a sequitur argument about this matter. You have basically come here and said " I read it and I am a sufficient authority that you all should believe me when i say it's a crock". We have said " oh really? Prove it's all false". That's not hazing... maybe it is for you up in Madison, WI... but the rest of us arent buying that. In this forum you are the equivalent of a man screaming bloody murder and saying his leg needs to be amputated because he stubbed his toe. Again... maybe you are used to being a big enough fish in a small pond that if you say it's rubbish, everyone agrees with you; if that's the case I'll have to get you one of those bumper stickers that say " a million dead lemmings can't be wrong..."

Interesting that I have to go through the hazing in order to be given a chance to ask questions - but I will and I will ask the questions I seek answers to - don't bother responding if you are threatened my reticence to just accept as truth what is here - simply because it is here. If it the truth it will be come evident and I will add it to what I have heard other places.

Again... what you are trying to label as hazing is simply our telling you no one here is named Dorothy or wearing ruby slippers... so just stop with the "PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN" act. In this forum we know the emperor is naked and we know the great wizard of Oz is a fraud... and no, we arent interested in going down any rabbit holes with you...yes, you have the right to make any statement you want and ask any question you desire... but the unofficial motto of the forum is "This aint Sabbath School; we pay attention around here..." which means if you choose to enter the fray, you can expect every and anything you choose to say to be questioned and challenged. That's not hazing; that's proving all things and holding fast what is good

I don't have to refute anything at this point because I haven't done anything other than say I am skeptical - and rightly so, as anyone should be in a he said/she said situation. I don't believe I will find the truth in one place - but will find what is available by going to each place it is being discussed and asking questions - then and only then making a decision for myself.

Sorry, the seat is mine - and if I lean over and ask you what the teacher just said, are you going to turn away from me becasue I didn't agree with you on some point? Is this a discussion, a place to seek truth, or a place only the "faithful believers" come and preach to the choir?

- fallible

The seat is *yours*? wake up Muttley; you're dreamin' again... you are allowed to occupy said seat as a privilege... not as a right... and nothing/no one in this forum belongs to you... and, as such, nothing is, in any wise, beholden to you. You declare your right to be skeptical... and that's kewl... but you need to be mindful of the fact that the other 1600+ denizens of this forum have the identical right to be equally skeptical about what you, me, or any other says...not to mention grilling you like a NY Strip if the things coming out of your mouth dont sit well with them.

As for your defiance regarding refuting anything... you dont have to; you're right... and Mark McGwire doesn't have to talk about the past where his steroid use is concerned... but given your credibility around here is zip point squat, what exactly is your raison d'etre ici? To declare the truth as you deem it to we po' colored folk since we so sorely stand in need of it by your estimation? Or maybe you are trying to let us know that everything goes better with whine... but either way if you exercise your right to give neither evidence nor argument for why you believe the things stated on the subject are errant, dont be surprised if anyone here exercises his right to presume that somewhere there's a village short one idiot.

Check, call or raise to you...

In His service,
Mr. J

[princessdi]

Ahhhhhh! so these are the questions you be trying to get to! This is going to be good!

Hersh, Re', have some fried meaty bits, popcorn, juice? Sit over here!!!

Okay here is a question:

Does this area of your discussion board see itself as the heir aparent to the reign at 3ABN?

Another:

Has it ever been presented here that this forum will bring down 3ABN and replaced it with a Linda run entity? Or that it has the power to do so?

Another:

Where does this group derive it's authority to lay claim to the reigns at 3ABN?

One last question - don't you want this to be an open discussion? Or is this a one sided discussion board - meaing can no one come in and disagree or at least be skeptical?

This post has been edited by princessdi: Aug 11 2006, 11:02 PM

[fallible humanbe...]

Thanks BB,

Okay let me start where I have started with others - How is this not a he said/she said situation? The rounds are fired from one side then the other, and back again. One side advances followed by the retaliation of the other. The waters were long ago muddied by both sides - so how do you see clearly to the bottom?

I keep reading comments from former employees (I haven't come across one yet that claims to be currently working there - but I may have missed that along the way) - if one enters into this without a side to support, it sounds rather like disgruntled employees. Do they have cause? Where they let go, terminated, fired unjustly - if so make it clear. For instance, the thread we are in was begun by your question about the validity of a rumor you heard in regards to Trust Services - the closest we have come is that four employees where let go earlier this year. No comment as to why (yes, from either side). Do organizations ever find themsleves in a financial pinch and they have to downsize (of course I was one of those individuals a couple of years ago). Do indivudals ever fail to perform up to their job description and are let go justly? I feel there is too much speculation at this point - too much guessing at individual motive to make the argument(s) here completely believeable.

Have you, in your search for truth, found anything untrue on this side of the table - anything embellished, anything with a touch of hyperbole added?

What do you base your belief that Linda was not involved in an inappropriate relationship with the Dr. on? Her word? His word? I want to know what hard evidence you have been privy to that has removed all doubt for you. If it is only the word of Linda and the Dr, and their closest allies - is this enough for you? Not a judgement, just a question.

- fallible

A last note - yes, if those who claim to have "been there" added their identity to their claims (either here in this board or outside of this board) it would add credence to their claims - as of now they still contain that hole of identity.

My identity - I am not making claims, not making accusations, not pointing fingers. I want some answers to the questions in my mind.

I respect your right to be skeptical, as I often am. In this case you can choose to believe what you want. I do not judge you. I am quite comfortable saying that this is not a "he said/she said" situation because it absolutely is not. I don't expect you to believe me, as that is not my goal.
Can you let us know what specific issues, point by point, you are having trouble with in this or other discussion threads?
[/quote]

[Hersheys99]

I brought more Di thing we will need them for this one.

[beartrap]

"Betrayals of trust, especially in the midst of power differentials and by people in whom sacred authority has been vested, are especially grievous sins that call for clear accountability and expectations of true repentance"
L. Gregory Jones, dean of Duke University Divinity School

"Who hides behind masks, and curses those who hide behind masks curses himself."

"Truth is in the eye of the beholder."

"A wretched soul, bruised with adversity,
We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;
But were we burdened with like weight of pain,
As much or more we should ourselves complain."
W. Shakespeare

"He draweth out the thread of his verbosity finer than the staple of his argument."
W. Shakespeare

"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure."
Mark Twain

"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."
Friederich Nietzche

"Convictions are the more dangerous enemy of truth than lies."
Friederich Nietzche

"An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens."
Thomas Jefferson

"The lion and the calf shall lie down together but the calf won't get much sleep."
Woody Allen

"Everyone is normal until you get to know them."
Doreen Williams

[Hersheys99]

A last note - yes, if those who claim to have "been there" added their identity to their claims (either here in this board or outside of this board) it would add credence to their claims - as of now they still contain that hole of identity.

And they would be really stupid to do that just in case you were DANNY!! Why would they want to show their hands to be persecuted? Like was posted THIS ISN'T SABBATH SCHOOL WE PAY ATTENTION!

[princessdi]

I'm sorry, but I smell a rat!!! Something is rotten in Denmark, or however you want to put it. Something is not right here. Something about you and your questions don't sit right with me. Not because you are skeptical, because we have skeptics here already. Something just is not right about this picture. If I am wrong, I will admit it and apologize, but I dont' think so.

In the words of Han Solo/Indiana Jones, "I got a bad feeling about this".

Thanks BB,

Okay let me start where I have started with others - How is this not a he said/she said situation? The rounds are fired from one side then the other, and back again. One side advances followed by the retaliation of the other. The waters were long ago muddied by both sides - so how do you see clearly to the bottom?

I keep reading comments from former employees (I haven't come across one yet that claims to be currently working there - but I may have missed that along the way) - if one enters into this without a side to support, it sounds rather like disgruntled employees. Do they have cause? Where they let go, terminated, fired unjustly - if so make it clear. For instance, the thread we are in was begun by your question about the validity of a rumor you heard in regards to Trust Services - the closest we have come is that four employees where let go earlier this year. No comment as to why (yes, from either side). Do organizations ever find themsleves in a financial pinch and they have to downsize (of course I was one of those individuals a couple of years ago). Do indivudals ever fail to perform up to their job description and are let go justly? I feel there is too much speculation at this point - too much guessing at individual motive to make the argument(s) here completely believeable.

Have you, in your search for truth, found anything untrue on this side of the table - anything embellished, anything with a touch of hyperbole added?

What do you base your belief that Linda was not involved in an inappropriate relationship with the Dr. on? Her word? His word? I want to know what hard evidence you have been privy to that has removed all doubt for you. If it is only the word of Linda and the Dr, and their closest allies - is this enough for you? Not a judgement, just a question.

- fallible

A last note - yes, if those who claim to have "been there" added their identity to their claims (either here in this board or outside of this board) it would add credence to their claims - as of now they still contain that hole of identity.

My identity - I am not making claims, not making accusations, not pointing fingers. I want some answers to the questions in my mind.

I respect your right to be skeptical, as I often am. In this case you can choose to believe what you want. I do not judge you. I am quite comfortable saying that this is not a "he said/she said" situation because it absolutely is not. I don't expect you to believe me, as that is not my goal.
Can you let us know what specific issues, point by point, you are having trouble with in this or other discussion threads?

This post has been edited by princessdi: Aug 11 2006, 11:25 PM

[PrincessDrRe]

....I keep reading comments from former employees (I haven't come across one yet that claims to be currently working there - but I may have missed that along the way) - if one enters into this without a side to support, it sounds rather like disgruntled employees. Do they have cause? Where they let go, terminated, fired unjustly - if so make it clear.....

None of this even matters if they are "whistleblowers" and are "tootin" about the inconsistencies at 3ABN....

Aren't I correct?

I'm sorry, but I smell a rat!!! Something is rotten in Denmark, or however you want to put it. Something is not right here. Something about you and your questions don't sit right with me. Not because you are skeptical, because we have skeptics here already. Something just is not right about this picture. If I am wrong, I will admit it and apologize, but I dont' think so.

Iffin the Boo Boo stank, you don't need to sniff it again to see if it still stanks.... No amount of air freshener is gonna make it "smell pretty".....

Whare de Meaty Bits? I needs Meaty Bits!

[sonshineonme]

Thanks BB,

Okay let me start where I have started with others - How is this not a he said/she said situation? The rounds are fired from one side then the other, and back again. One side advances followed by the retaliation of the other. The waters were long ago muddied by both sides - so how do you see clearly to the bottom?

I keep reading comments from former employees (I haven't come across one yet that claims to be currently working there - but I may have missed that along the way) - if one enters into this without a side to support, it sounds rather like disgruntled employees. Do they have cause? Where they let go, terminated, fired unjustly - if so make it clear. For instance, the thread we are in was begun by your question about the validity of a rumor you heard in regards to Trust Services - the closest we have come is that four employees where let go earlier this year. No comment as to why (yes, from either side). Do organizations ever find themsleves in a financial pinch and they have to downsize (of course I was one of those individuals a couple of years ago). Do indivudals ever fail to perform up to their job description and are let go justly? I feel there is too much speculation at this point - too much guessing at individual motive to make the argument(s) here completely believeable.

Have you, in your search for truth, found anything untrue on this side of the table - anything embellished, anything with a touch of hyperbole added?

What do you base your belief that Linda was not involved in an inappropriate relationship with the Dr. on? Her word? His word? I want to know what hard evidence you have been privy to that has removed all doubt for you. If it is only the word of Linda and the Dr, and their closest allies - is this enough for you? Not a judgement, just a question.

- fallible

A last note - yes, if those who claim to have "been there" added their identity to their claims (either here in this board or outside of this board) it would add credence to their claims - as of now they still contain that hole of identity.

My identity - I am not making claims, not making accusations, not pointing fingers. I want some answers to the questions in my mind.

I respect your right to be skeptical, as I often am. In this case you can choose to believe what you want. I do not judge you. I am quite comfortable saying that this is not a "he said/she said" situation because it absolutely is not. I don't expect you to believe me, as that is not my goal.
Can you let us know what specific issues, point by point, you are having trouble with in this or other discussion threads?

ok, you know what? We is going in circles here....everyone, take note. NOTHING is being accomplished by this merry go round....It's a disctaction. This man does more talking then listening or reading (if it is a man). I know the difference between someone ASKING and WANTING to know, and one who is playing the distraction game. "Some" people choose to keep the merrygo round going and going and going, and frankly I am getting sick. Something still smells "stanky" here. Entertainment distraction, play of the week, call it what you want. It's hard to take this kind of circular conversation serious at all.

[awesumtenor]

A last note - yes, if those who claim to have "been there" added their identity to their claims (either here in this board or outside of this board) it would add credence to their claims - as of now they still contain that hole of identity.

My identity - I am not making claims, not making accusations, not pointing fingers. I want some answers to the questions in my mind.

So it's do as you say, not as you do? BTW you have made a patently false statement above. By saying those who have not sufficiently revealed themselves cannot be credible or that their claims lack credence until they make what you deem to be sufficient revelation of who they are you have made a claim that your not knowing who they are makes their statements not to be believed that is a claim. Inherent and implicit in that claim is the accusation that they remain somewhat anonymous in an attempt to obfuscate... and you've pointed so many fingers since you came in that it is surprising you havent put someone's eye out...

Yet you will do whatever you need to avoid making the same revelation that you demand of others before you will even consider what they've posted...

There's a word for behavior like that...

In His service,
Mr. J

[sonshineonme]

So it's do as you say, not as you do? BTW you have made a patently false statement above. By saying those who have not sufficiently revealed themselves cannot be credible or that their claims lack credence until they make what you deem to be sufficient revelation of who they are you have made a claim that your not knowing who they are makes their statements not to be believed that is a claim. Inherent and implicit in that claim is the accusation that they remain somewhat anonymous in an attempt to obfuscate... and you've pointed so many fingers since you came in that it is surprising you havent put someone's eye out...

Yet you will do whatever you need to avoid making the same revelation that you demand of others before you will even consider what they've posted...

There's a word for behavior like that...

In His service,
Mr. J

I feel no trust in this "infalible human being". Something stanky i say.....

I'm sorry, but I smell a rat!!! Something is rotten in Denmark, or however you want to put it. Something is not right here. Something about you and your questions don't sit right with me. Not because you are skeptical, because we have skeptics here already. Something just is not right about this picture. If I am wrong, I will admit it and apologize, but I dont' think so.

In the words of Han Solo/Indiana Jones, "I got a bad feeling about this".

I'm tellin ya, you are on to it princess Di....everyone, feel free to stop playing his game anytime, he is enjoying it too much.

[PrincessDrRe]

So it's do as you say, not as you do? BTW you have made a patently false statement above. By saying those who have not sufficiently revealed themselves cannot be credible or that their claims lack credence until they make what you deem to be sufficient revelation of who they are you have made a claim that your not knowing who they are makes their statements not to be believed that is a claim. Inherent and implicit in that claim is the accusation that they remain somewhat anonymous in an attempt to obfuscate... and you've pointed so many fingers since you came in that it is surprising you havent put someone's eye out...

In a real big nutshell - Iffin you can't say who you be then why should they? Why does it even matter. LET THE TRUTH STAND....then again....

Some only see "their side" of the truth...... Thank you JESUS (with his meat eatin' self) is the ultimate judge of me. Some of these folks would send me straight to hells....

....There's a word for behavior like that...

It's something in the DSM IV-TR..... Lemmie go check and get back with yall....

ok, you know what? We is going in circles here....everyone, take note. NOTHING is being accomplished by this merry go round....It's a disctaction. This man does more talking then listening or reading (if it is a man). I know the difference between someone ASKING and WANTING to know, and one who is playing the distraction game. "Some" people choose to keep the merrygo round going and going and going, and frankly I am getting sick. Something still smells "stanky" here. Entertainment distraction, play of the week, call it what you want. It's hard to take this kind of circular conversation serious at all.

"When Boo Boo stanks, you don't have to sniff it again to see if it is still stankin.....



This post has been edited by PrincessDrRe: Aug 11 2006, 11:32 PM