Fallible's questions regarding 3ABN, his observations and skepticism Options

[sonshineonme]

>When I said people don't do things to us, I mean just that. People do things - usually with their >own best interest at heart, sometimes without thinking - but never to us. Infact we are probably >the last person on their mind when they do things.

>>Maybe I have misunderstood your post here, but I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH YOU. People >>INTENTIONALLY do things to us to HURT us all the time. WE have a choice how we will respond. >>People who use their power to abuse us in some way are deliberate in their actions.

You don't have to agree with me, totally or partially. That doesn't make me wrong. This is simply what I believe. I believe that if one goes around thinking that everyone is "doing stuff to me" you relinquish all the power you have to live your life - you become a victim, a powerless victim.

You're right, I don't, and won't. This does make you wrong when people have expirienced things because of others deliberate intentions. You don't become a victim be admitting people have sought out to hurt you - you just learn that there are horrible mean people on the panet. Like I said, how you react is a total different thing. But if you walk around unaware of what people do to each other on this earth, I can see you are not of this planet. I choose not to be scared of you although my instinct tell me you are a provoker rather then a realist. You are indeed missing the point. Maybe you just haven't had the priviledge of being mistreated or abused yet.


>So, don't worry so much about what the other guy is doing - what are YOU doing to spread the >love of God through all the earth so we can go home? Share because maybe I can learn >something about bringing souls to Christ.

>>Do you live on the same planet I do? I can spread the word and love of Jesus AND also call >>wrong where I see it. There is evil all around us, some of it is disquised unless you look a bit >>closer, and there are most definitely times to say NO because that is FALSE teaching. How can >>you know what is true and false unless you look at it? It's not about "worrying", it's about using >>your brain.

Well unless I am mistaken there are no Internet connections in space or on any other planets - so I guess you have to accept the fact that yes, I am on the same planet as you . . . and no I do not agree with you.


No, I don't think you do live on this planet with the rest of us. You have an apparent disconect to human reality.
- fallible

[calvin]

Clay,

Did any of the martyrs in this earths history stand behind a false identity. If what is spoken is the truth then speak that hard truth with your own mouth, and your face seen.

A few quotes from Emerson come to mind here:

"Whoso would be a man (and I would add - or a real woman), must be a nonconformist… It is easy in the world to live after the world’s opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own; but the great man (or woman) is one who in the midst of the crowd keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude."

"Speak what you think now in hard words and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day… Your genuine action will explain itself and will explain your other genuine actions. Your conformity explains nothing.”

There doesn't seem to be any openness here to a dissenting voice - even one who only claims to not be buying the entirety of either sides story. If this doesn't sit well here then this isn't a forum, but rather a closed discussion where you can only take part if you sign off on the dotted line of perscribed line of thought (not unlike todays political parties I might say).

- fallible

The mere fact that you have been allowed to post your unedited and uncensored comments here for all to read speaks to the openness of this forum. The fact that many don’t agree with you is another matter entirely.

Btw, many of us are not hiding. So spare us the self-righteous indignation. You can step out from behind the tree and show us your face anything, as I and many have done here.

[Daryl Fawcett]

If fallible is looking for people to release their identity, it would be appropriate for fallible to lead the way.

[fallible humanbe...]

Hey Watchbird,

I addressed this before and will again one more time. I have been part of Adventist forums all the way back to the very first one and am very familiar with the tactics employed to try and wear down those who do not agree with you - sorry they won't work. I want answers and the truth. So expect me to be here for awhile.

I have met Danny three times. I have met Linda just as many times. I have no need to support either one. In short I do not have a personal axe to grind.

If you are unable to accept that someone out there in this big wide world doesn't buy what your selling ad infinitum then just ignore my questions and my part in this discussion and focus on those who will not question you. I am surprised that you have a problem with a truth seeker and want to try and frame them so they can't raise pertinent issues and questions.

One last time, I am not Danny, do not communicate with Danny, have any personal stake in 3ABN or Linda's musical ministry. I want the truth and here I am to pick this source - like it or not you can't harang me out of here. I will leave when I feel my questions have been answered.

- fallible

Like an echo, a good ghostwriter will speak with the same accent and syntax as the person for which he is "ghosting"....... only better. But "better" in the sense of sounding, as one man put it, "more like me than what I do myself". If one is ghostwriting for someone who sounds educated and imaginable....... then that sound comes through. But only if .........

[PaperTigers]

fallible,
to be completely honest, i like the fact that you ask questions... it's a free country and when someone disagrees with you, it makes you stop and think and re-evaluate. That is IMO a good thing...
i just hope that you aren't so set in your ways that you choose to not see what is in front of your face, whatever that may be.

[Daryl Fawcett]

Aren't we all truth seekers here?

I hope so!!!!!

It's how we seek the truth that is also important.

[BrotherBill]

If fallible is looking for people to release their identity, it would be appropriate for fallible to lead the way.

This is spot on, as is Calvin's post above. My question for fallible is, "If I, or anyone else here, were to reveal our identities would you believe what we say?" Surely many of the folks here have either worked at 3 ABN, work there now, or have personal knowledge of that organization, but you don't seem to want to accept anything that is being said.

I'm new to this forum too, so I don't really know the proper way to say this, but if you want my identity, and if that will REALLY make a difference, post one of those messages where I can answer off line and I will be happy to oblige.

If not, perhaps you should go and work for Danny (if he comes back from his extended absence), or better yet work for Mollie or Brenda. Then you can have your first hand experience.

[fallible humanbe...]

Calvin and BB,

Calvin, as owner I would expect that you would be fully forthcoming with your identity. But, the players in this particular segment of this forum have set the "rules" they play by. Can I get answers to my questions better by giving my identity - who knows. My point about identity mirrors another post in a 3ABN thread - that when you accuse, when you present information as fact and don't reveal your identity your information automatically carries less weight for many.

Okay, a point here BB. You mention that many of the people posting here worked at 3ABN or are even currently working there. IF, all this is the truth and such egregious activities are taking place it seems there would be no fear of reprisal - at least in the long run. If it is true then step up and like the voice crying in the wilderness don't hide. I am not here to make a statement about anything. I said I was here to ask questions and that is what I havce done.

You say I am not accepting what is being said - should I? I don't think anyone seeking the truth should walk into the room and without asking all the necessary questions accept what is being said there as the truth. Do you do that? I doubt it. So don't expect me to - but to expect me to be here with an open mind because that is how I have arrived. Sure there is a defensive mechanisim that kicks in when everyone sitting in the room automatically discounts you because you don't buy in, but I try to temper that with the fact that there seems to be a vested interest in bringing down 3ABN - and anyone who questions the validity of what is said here is persona nongrata. And lest there be any doubt - my disbelief is because I am seeking.

I watched the same show last night that all of you did - or at least I think I did. Danny said he and Brandy were going on an extended vacation. This leaves two options to consider:

A. Danny and Brandy are exhuasted from all the personal attacks and the rancorous accusations that have been aimed at them.

B. He is guilty of one or more of the accusations that have been made - and come on be honest they are accusations at this point (innocent until proven guilty) - and he is seeking a quiet way out to exit.

Can you know which - no. Time will tell. Time will also tell where the truth is and who hasn't been presenting it.

I would love to converse with you Bill - don't know how that is possible but maybe we will find out one day.

- fallible

This is spot on, as is Calvin's post above. My question for fallible is, "If I, or anyone else here, were to reveal our identities would you believe what we say?" Surely many of the folks here have either worked at 3 ABN, work there now, or have personal knowledge of that organization, but you don't seem to want to accept anything that is being said.

I'm new to this forum too, so I don't really know the proper way to say this, but if you want my identity, and if that will REALLY make a difference, post one of those messages where I can answer off line and I will be happy to oblige.

If not, perhaps you should go and work for Danny (if he comes back from his extended absence), or better yet work for Mollie or Brenda. Then you can have your first hand experience.

JustTana,

In order to make sure I understand your post let me ask, Are you making any connection between the troubles in Danny and Kay's marriage and her death in the accident? Are you in any way suggesting that Danny killed his wife?

I want to be clear and online communication can often leave to mucxh to the imagination.

- fallible

Well, I'll try again to post to this thread. It is my humble opinion that whatever Danny may have said last night about him and Brandy taking a 'leave of absence' is more about trying to convince people that he knows he needs to make changes in his life. However, I think it is only a smoke screen to try to fool Brandy, first of all, and then those faithful followers in the audience. As I wrote to Don Schneider today, who is a very personal acquaintance of my sister, she has personal knowledge of much of the behavior described in 'The Televangelist.' She is also a former member of the Springfield, Illinois church where Linda went after her firing and in talking with friends from there, was told how upset the placement of John Stanton made the people, especially as it related to removing Linda from any place in the church doings. She also knew Danny personally when he tried to become a literature evangelist. Her husband was the top salesman in Illinois and it was obvious that Danny had no desire to follow any of the programs that were in place. It was also very obvious that there was great trouble in the marriage and it was shortly after his stint at book sales that she was killed in the accident. The document regarding Kay's making plans to leave Danny was very much true to what was being observed by my sister and others in the literature camp. My sister will be contacting Don Schneider as soon as she can and I will report to you what we find out, or not, from him. It is entirely possible that he will not be able to say much or will say things that must stay 'off the record' for now. In any case I will let you know the outcome.

JustTana

[fallible humanbe...]

DF,

I can't speak for anyone but myself. Yes, I am. Does that mean I agree with you, well it seems here that if I don't I am in line to be impuned. I don't come down on one side or the other - do I lean one way or the other, yes probably. At this point I will not take a stand either way.

It seems to me that if those here are desirous of me believing them they wouldn't resort to the tactics that always arise in discussion threads to drive out those who don't "agree."

There isn't a right or wrong way to seek the truth other than these two things:

A. Request the guidence of the Holy Spirit.

B. Ask questions until they are all answered.

Oh yes, and don't be afraid of the bravado.

- fallible

Aren't we all truth seekers here?

I hope so!!!!!

It's how we seek the truth that is also important.

[calvin]

In order to make sure I understand your post let me ask, Are you making any connection between the troubles in Danny and Kay's marriage and her death in the accident? Are you in any way suggesting that Danny killed his wife?

I want to be clear and online communication can often leave to mucxh to the imagination.

- fallible

I have made this clear before, so for the new members let me make it clear again. We are not going to discuss or speculate on Danny killing his ex-wife. That is gossip. You should have enough to talk about with 20 years of 3abn history without going there.

[awesumtenor]

fallible,
to be completely honest, i like the fact that you ask questions... it's a free country and when someone disagrees with you, it makes you stop and think and re-evaluate. That is IMO a good thing...
i just hope that you aren't so set in your ways that you choose to not see what is in front of your face, whatever that may be.

He would get a lot more mileage out of providing evidence to refute what is already on the table. He says he doesnt believe it to be true; on what basis.

Otherwise he's just the latest person to try a very tired argumentum ad populum ( with the occasional piece of argumentum ad hominem thrown in ) that has not worked any of the previous times it has been attempted.

Time to ante up... or give up the seat to someone who will... but any schmoe can cast stones from the sideline when he has no skin in the game.

In His service,
Mr. J

[fallible humanbe...]

Calvin,

Thank you, I am not speculating anything - only wondering if that is one of the accusations levied here. The post seemed to be peripherally insinuating such. Wanted clarification.

- fallible

I have made this clear before, so for the new members let me make it clear again. We are not going to discuss or speculate on Danny killing his ex-wife. That is gossip. You should have enough to talk about with 20 years of 3abn history without going there.

[Freedom]

I have made this clear before, so for the new members let me make it clear again. We are not going to discuss or speculate on Danny killing his ex-wife. That is gossip. You should have enough to talk about with 20 years of 3abn history without going there.

Thank you Calvin !

Falliable, who are you to judge what identiy people are using? Your not usiing your identiy.
Obviously, you have not worked or are working in the 3ABN otherwise you wouldn't make the statement about using your true identity.

Personally, I don't think you have any idea what lengths the management at 3ABN will go to abuse, slander or hurt people.

Falliable, please read Matt. 7:1 and ponder on the text before you jump in here with some of the statements you've made.

Freedom

[fallible humanbe...]

AT,

As I mentioned before - this tired routine of trying to roust me because I don't agree isn't going to work. I want the truth - and if I don't believe you it isn't my job to tell you why. I have heard much from both sides and this area seems to feel they have a perponderance of the Linda side of the story - so here I am reading and asking questions. Why do you feel threatened because I refuse to jump when you ask.

Interesting that I have to go through the hazing in order to be given a chance to ask questions - but I will and I will ask the questions I seek answers to - don't bother responding if you are threatened my reticence to just accept as truth what is here - simply because it is here. If it the truth it will be come evident and I will add it to what I have heard other places.

I don't have to refute anything at this point because I haven't done anything other than say I am skeptical - and rightly so, as anyone should be in a he said/she said situation. I don't believe I will find the truth in one place - but will find what is available by going to each place it is being discussed and asking questions - then and only then making a decision for myself.

Sorry, the seat is mine - and if I lean over and ask you what the teacher just said, are you going to turn away from me becasue I didn't agree with you on some point? Is this a discussion, a place to seek truth, or a place only the "faithful believers" come and preach to the choir?

In His Service,

- fallible

He would get a lot more mileage out of providing evidence to refute what is already on the table. He says he doesnt believe it to be true; on what basis.

Otherwise he's just the latest person to try a very tired argumentum ad populum ( with the occasional piece of argumentum ad hominem thrown in ) that has not worked any of the previous times it has been attempted.

Time to ante up... or give up the seat to someone who will... but any schmoe can cast stones from the sideline when he has no skin in the game.

In His service,
Mr. J

[princessdi]

First of all, Fallible, nobody is trying to roust you out. YOU are the one who was talking about people not identifying themselves. BSDA existed long before this mess at 3ABN came to light and people were making decisions then about how much of themselves to reveal. Why? Because this is the 'World wide web"? Maybe?

You have not been hazed, trust me. However, you need to go ahead and ask your questions, and those who can will answer to the best of their ability. So far, you have only said you have read everything posted here, plus and still not come to the same conclusion most here have. There is no problem with that. Not everyone already here have come to the same conclusions. If you have been reading as you say you have, you will know that Calvin and Daryl amopng others were both skeptics not two months ago. In spite of that, Calvin still provided opportunity for information to be posted.

Also, if you have been reading this site, you will know that questions are not a problem. Some believe we question too much. So you accusations opf us being afraid of your questions are foundless. Try again, that dog won't hunt here.


Now, proceed with your questions. BTW, Happy Sabbath!

AT,

As I mentioned before - this tired routine of trying to roust me because I don't agree isn't going to work. I want the truth - and if I don't believe you it isn't my job to tell you why. I have heard much from both sides and this area seems to feel they have a perponderance of the Linda side of the story - so here I am reading and asking questions. Why do you feel threatened because I refuse to jump when you ask.

Interesting that I have to go through the hazing in order to be given a chance to ask questions - but I will and I will ask the questions I seek answers to - don't bother responding if you are threatened my reticence to just accept as truth what is here - simply because it is here. If it the truth it will be come evident and I will add it to what I have heard other places.

I don't have to refute anything at this point because I haven't done anything other than say I am skeptical - and rightly so, as anyone should be in a he said/she said situation. I don't believe I will find the truth in one place - but will find what is available by going to each place it is being discussed and asking questions - then and only then making a decision for myself.

Sorry, the seat is mine - and if I lean over and ask you what the teacher just said, are you going to turn away from me becasue I didn't agree with you on some point? Is this a discussion, a place to seek truth, or a place only the "faithful believers" come and preach to the choir?

In His Service,

- fallible