Statement - Alyssa Moore, Linda Shelton's daughter Options

[Clay]

Is this real??

yes.... I have seen the emailed copy with her signature..... while that doesn't prove anything, she has not come forward to say its not real.....

[sonshineonme]

Is this real??

Yes, it is real, I also have a signed copy. It was not for public distribution. It was difficult enough to put it in writing as that means you are not keeping it a secret anymore - there are many emotions that go with stating it on paper - it moves from your mind (the experience itself which you have keep to yourself for obvious reasons) to actually being told, although on paper. When one makes that step, they hope to keep it still somewhat out of the public forum because of just what can happen by just anyones eyes - "it must be to get back at someone" or any of the other reasons people will determine other then accepting it for the plain truth that it is. Unless you have been through it yourself, I suppose you can not understand what it takes to actually "tell" on someone.



This post has been edited by sonshineonme: Oct 8 2006, 03:29 PM

[Clay]

Yes, it is real, as I have a signed copy, however, I received it on condition that I wouldn't post it on any forum, which I honoured and never did, and until given permission to do so, will not post it over at MSDAOL, or allow it to be posted there by anybody else.

I am still disappointed it has been posted here.

whateva Daryl... I don't know why... people want evidence and then refuse to provide it, choosing instead to hint at it, never directly stating what it is.... that gets old....

How do you know permission wasnt given? Additionally as I said before if something is gonna be done, those who can do will either have to tinkle or get off the potty.....

[sonshineonme]

whateva Daryl... I don't know why... people want evidence and then refuse to provide it, choosing instead to hint at it, never directly stating what it is.... that gets old....

How do you know permission wasnt given? Additionally as I said before if something is gonna be done, those who can do will either have to tinkle or get off the potty.....

I'm not Daryl, but I do know that permission WAS NOT given.
It is not good to "hint" at things if it comes across as "nanny nanny boo-boo", and if that happened, that is too bad. The sad fact is that those given the letter/statement, and that's all the way to the top, knew that it was not for public distribution, and apparently did it anyway.

[watchbird]

Is this real??

Yes, it is real. After it went out to the first wave of highly placed GC administrators and other key figures.... some of them became very proactive in sending it on to others in the permitted classifications of recipients and distribution methods.... so it has indeed had a wide distribution. However, whether or not that fact makes it technically in "the public domain", it is still a fact of equal or greater importance that it was a breach of Christian courtesy and committment to a hurting woman for someone to expose her to a wider audience than what she had stipulated as being the extent of her willingness to be so exposed.

But.... is this not the inevitable result, as Clay indicated, of the clammoring of those who will not accept a narrative account of anything but insist instead on "documented proof" from the abused person's own lips.... and then when even that is given, will not be satisfied with the word of others that they have seen the document, but insist on reading every bloodstained word themselves?

Doesn't scripture specify that the statement of a witness.... when confirmed by two or three others.... is sufficient evidence? Why is that not sufficient for readers of these forums? I have no idea who the person is who posted the document here.... but I am quite sure that had there not been the continual hue and cry for "Documentation.... documentation.... and more documentation!" that the person who posted this would not have so unthinkingly .... and unkindly..... exposed this dear bleeding sister in ways that she had expressly requested that she not be exposed.

This post has been edited by watchbird: Oct 11 2006, 03:34 PM

[PeacefulBe]

Doesn't scripture specify that the statement of a witness.... when confirmed by two or three others.... is sufficient evidence? Why is that not sufficient for readers of these forums? I have no idea who the person is who posted the document here.... but I am quite sure that had there not been the continual hue and cry for "Documentation.... documentation.... and more documentation!" that the person who posted this would not have so unthinkingly .... and unkindly..... exposed this dear bleeding sister in ways that she had expressly requested that she not be exposed.

I'd appreciate knowing what scripture you are refering to here so I can study it.

[calvin]

Daryl, Sonshineonme, Watchbird and anyone dissappointed that this letter is posted here, you will get over it.

[September]

Daryl, Sonshineonme, Watchbird and anyone dissappointed that this letter is posted here, you will get over it.

Wow...

[sonshineonme]

Daryl, Sonshineonme, Watchbird and anyone dissappointed that this letter is posted here, you will get over it.

To me it's not a matter of getting over it. I have accepted it being here. I am dissapointed that permission was not given for it to be here and it was posted here anyway. That is the part that dissapoints me. It really has nothing to do with whether it is here or not. I am specifically referring to someones request (Alyssa), naive though it could be called, it was still what she asked. Why was that not respected? Does it matter what the "rest" of the people do? That is my only issue. The argument that others have been discussed does not fly with me because these are different circumstances. Someone was violated, they put it in writing to a select group for specific reasons, and specifically asked it not be put in other places (such as a forum or on the internet). I felt from the beginning that it would not remain that way, that someone would go against her wishes and "share" it with someone. I was just hoping we would follow her request here. If we could have re-asked her about it now, given some time has passed since she released it, maybe she would (or maybe not) have agreed. But, I have not been told she was asked. So Calvin, while I appreciate all you do here, I would have liked to see it handled differently - it may be good thinkg in theory that it is out there, but to me, it wasn't my call to make even though I have had the letter myself since she first wrote it.

[watchbird]

Daryl, Sonshineonme, Watchbird and anyone dissappointed that this letter is posted here, you will get over it.

Calvin, I already said I was "over it" and was moving on to whatever discussion was best now. My current response was not a further comment on what you had done, but as response to a question that was asked, and on what I believe is the thing that must have driven the person who asked you for permission to put it on. And my "pet peeve" in this is, as I said, the never satisfied cries for "documentation" (which, IMO, btw, are not nearly so prevelant and stonewalling here on BSDA as they are on Maritime) who call every bit of information "gossip" and even if documentation is provided it is only called "he says.... she says".

But again, I repeat.... I have accepted that you gave permission, that the thread is here to stay, and now that it is here that it will be discussed. What I am looking for is what to say in that discussion which will be the best for all concerned.

[Panama_Pete]

Calvin, I already said I was "over it" and was moving on to whatever discussion was best now. My current response was not a further comment on what you had done, but as response to a question that was asked, and on what I believe is the thing that must have driven the person who asked you for permission to put it on. And my "pet peeve" in this is, as I said, the never satisfied cries for "documentation" (which, IMO, btw, are not nearly so prevelant and stonewalling here on BSDA as they are on Maritime) who call every bit of information "gossip" and even if documentation is provided it is only called "he says.... she says".

But again, I repeat.... I have accepted that you gave permission, that the thread is here to stay, and now that it is here that it will be discussed. What I am looking for is what to say in that discussion which will be the best for all concerned.

Since the letter is out I'll just comment on the way things are at the moment.

Let me put the "cynic hat" on for just a moment.

Being increasingly cynical, I believe that giving the letter to General Conference personnel was the equivalent to putting the letter in a paper shredder.

I really don't see the GC making the any momentous decisions in October if they've already been sitting on the letter for two months. They're completely done with the letter and they'll soon be out buying their Christmas presents.

The option of approved distribution routes may have been a good decision at the time, but it may have failed following a certain "3ABN sponsor's" visit to the General Conference. We're told such a person was at the GC, and I doubt he left the building without getting his way.

As a result of the sponsor running interference, this is the only place any decision makers (constituents and donors) are ever going to see the letter. And, maybe, that's the best we can do for now. I have to believe that there is some reason for it being here since I believe a Higher Power is ultimately in control.

Cynic hat is now back off.

[Fran]

I have been thinking about what has transpired and believe there is so much more that we can't see that this letter was meant to be posted. It has started the ball rolling, so to speak.

Much of the garbage is coming out for the public to see. This letter has further affected the donations to 3ABN. This seriously needs to be done. If this goes to court, all evidence has to be brought up in discovery anyway.

Many knew of this years ago and could do nothing about it. Before this was all said and done, the story was going to get out. There are other involved, but have not had their letters published. In time they will be. We will have confirmation of the Shelton family's characteristics. They are not Christ like.

Since some accusations go way back, I assume the power of God was not grasped by them to allow God to deliver them from these habits of sin. It was their choice. Even at this late date, they still deny the facts presented.

But, think about it realistically and holistically. What is still under the rug? Much good is coming out of this investigation. There will be things come out that will put me/us to shame. Things that have nothing to do with this letter.

There are so many facets to the mess at 3ABN. Each one must be treated individually and not all as one. Problems of one kind must be addresses with problems of the same kind. Linda's daughter does not stand alone by any means.

Allysa, Hold your head high, honey. These actions you mention are wrong. Now that it is said, you are free from him. He can no longer have a hold on you again. Sometimes it helps to call this Danny person by a different name. Maybe Daniel. That really helps, believe it or not. When you speak of him, say the new name. It helps forgiveness to flow easier and you can experience a true release. Nothing will ever change these facts, they do fade, but the memories of your feelings and maybe even rage will be right there every time you hear of, or see abuse in any form.

Now, think about this "case". It does not begin or end with sexual abuse.

There are "serious" financial problems. These must be handled alone.

Employee problems are another mess.

Then we see they are breaking the very constitution of our country. The Declaration of Independence gives each person the right to the pursuit of happiness. 3ABN has not done this. They have interfered with many individuals right to pursue their happiness.

Many of the abused have no idea they have been abused. This is one I cry about. Many individuals will find they have had their right to the pursuit of happiness circumvented. When we hear, I/we will be hurt again, and so will they.

Then there are the outside problems. Who allowed this mess to happen? Who would be considered a shareholders of 3ABN? Who closed their eyes to the wrong doing and turned their backs to allow it to continue? This takes this case away from 3ABN and into the laps of others, and maybe even certain individuals, and other independent ministries.

The Thompsonville church is about to feel some REAL pain. So will the IL Conference, Union. NAD and GC.

From this letter, the line branches out and up like a genealogical tree. We may have to change the name of these threads to, "Ready, or not, here I come!"

Think about it. This is no longer just a Danny problem. The house of God needs to be cleaned up before Jesus comes. Something must be done to STOP this from happening again. May God help us as we watch this explode.


This post has been edited by Fran: Oct 9 2006, 12:08 AM

[Clay]

Since the letter is out I'll just comment on the way things are at the moment.

Let me put the "cynic hat" on for just a moment.

Being increasingly cynical, I believe that giving the letter to General Conference personnel was the equivalent to putting the letter in a paper shredder.

I really don't see the GC making the any momentous decisions in October if they've already been sitting on the letter for two months. They're completely done with the letter and they'll soon be out buying their Christmas presents.

The option of approved distribution routes may have been a good decision at the time, but it may have failed following a certain "3ABN sponsor's" visit to the General Conference. We're told such a person was at the GC, and I doubt he left the building without getting his way.

As a result of the sponsor running interference, this is the only place any decision makers (constituents and donors) are ever going to see the letter. And, maybe, that's the best we can do for now. I have to believe that there is some reason for it being here since I believe a Higher Power is ultimately in control.

Cynic hat is now back off.

good points Pete.... as I stated before, rarely do churches want to deal with issues like this, and usually counsel victims not to press charges.... it was naive to think that by making a statement and sending it only to church leaders that something would be done..... if its true, she should press charges and let the chips fall where they may...

[watchbird]

But.... is this not the inevitable result, as Clay indicated, of the clammoring of those who will not accept a narrative account of anything but insist instead on "documented proof" from the abused person's own lips.... and then when even that is given, will not be satisfied with the word of others that they have seen the document, but insist on reading every bloodstained word themselves?

Doesn't scripture specify that the statement of a witness.... when confirmed by two or three others.... is sufficient evidence? Why is that not sufficient for readers of these forums? I have no idea who the person is who posted the document here.... but I am quite sure that had there not been the continual hue and cry for "Documentation.... documentation.... and more documentation!" that the person who posted this would not have so unthinkingly .... and unkindly..... exposed this dear bleeding sister in ways that she had expressly requested that she not be exposed.

I'd appreciate knowing what scripture you are refering to here so I can study it.

Deuteronomy 17:6
Deuteronomy 19:15
Matthew 18:15-17

[watchbird]

Amen to all that Fran has said.

With one caveate.... I'd like to modify one part of one point.... see below.....

I have been thinking about what has transpired and believe there is so much more that we can't see that this letter was meant to be posted. It has started the ball rolling, so to speak.

Much of the garbage is coming out for the public to see. This letter has further affected the donations to 3ABN. This seriously needs to be done. If this goes to court, all evidence has to be brought up in discovery anyway.

Many knew of this years ago and could do nothing about it. Before this was all said and done, the story was going to get out. There are other involved, but have not had their letters published. In time they will be. We will have confirmation of the Shelton family's characteristics. They are not Christ like.

Since some accusations go way back, I assume the power of God was not grasped by them to allow God to deliver them from these habits of sin. It was their choice. Even at this late date, they still deny the facts presented.

But, think about it realistically and holistically. What is still under the rug? Much good is coming out of this investigation. There will be things come out that will put me/us to shame. Things that have nothing to do with this letter.

There are so many facets to the mess at 3ABN. Each one must be treated individually and not all as one. Problems of one kind must be addresses with problems of the same kind. Linda's daughter does not stand alone by any means.

Allysa, Hold your head high, honey. These actions you mention are wrong. Now that it is said, you are free from him. He can no longer have a hold on you again. Sometimes it helps to call this Danny person by a different name. Maybe Daniel. That really helps, believe it or not. When you speak of him, say the new name. It helps forgiveness to flow easier and you can experience a true release. Nothing will ever change these facts, they do fade, but the memories of your feelings and maybe even rage will be right there every time you hear of, or see abuse in any form.

Amen to this also.... except for the choice of name.... not Daniel.... that name is an honorable one in scripture and one that magnifies the name of God (EL).... Daniel = God is my Judge.

Instead I suggest merely Dan...... Dan = judge. Some interesting things about Dan in scripture....

Genesis 49: 16-18 (Jacob's blessing/prophecy for each of his sons just before his death)
Dan shall judge his people,
As one of the tribes of Israel.

Dan shall be a serpent in the way,
A horned snake in the path,
That bites the horse's heels,
So that his rider falls backward.

For Your salvation I wait, O LORD.

Comparing Joshua 19 with Judges 18, one finds that the tribe of Dan were not content with the land that had been portioned out to them, but (according to at least one Bible Dictionary entry) found this too limited so they spied out another territory and took that by force and changed the name of the city to Dan.

And finally, compare Revelation 7.... where Dan is conspicuous by its absence.

------------------

But turning from scripture to the present..... Danny is, of course, an affectionate, diminutive form of either Dan or Daniel.... and here is something I have wondered about....... While all over the world people call him Danny..... in no communication with Linda have I ever heard her call him anything but Dan. So a question for those that knew her well before her ouster from 3abn.... Was this always the case? Did she always call him Dan?..... Or has she (consciously or unconsiously) done what Fran has suggested here and made a difference in the name by which she identifies him?

(Just a question.... I return you now to Fran's excellent analysis of what is and what must come to pass.)

]Now, think about this "case". It does not begin or end with sexual abuse.

There are "serious" financial problems. These must be handled alone.

Employee problems are another mess.

Then we see they are breaking the very constitution of our country. The Declaration of Independence gives each person the right to the pursuit of happiness. 3ABN has not done this. They have interfered with many individuals right to pursue their happiness.

Many of the abused have no idea they have been abused. This is one I cry about. Many individuals will find they have had their right to the pursuit of happiness circumvented. When we hear, I/we will be hurt again, and so will they.

Then there are the outside problems. Who allowed this mess to happen? Who would be considered a shareholders of 3ABN? Who closed their eyes to the wrong doing and turned their backs to allow it to continue? This takes this case away from 3ABN and into the laps of others, and maybe even certain individuals, and other independent ministries.

The Thompsonville church is about to feel some REAL pain. So will the IL Conference, Union. NAD and GC.

From this letter, the line branches out and up like a genealogical tree. We may have to change the name of these threads to, "Ready, or not, here I come!"

Think about it. This is no longer just a Danny problem. The house of God needs to be cleaned up before Jesus comes. Something must be done to STOP this from happening again. May God help us as we watch this explode.