 Danny’s Vision Of Nov. 14/15, 1984, fact or fiction |
  |
 Nov 16 2006, 06:22 AM
Post
#31
|
|
|
500 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 857 Joined: 6-April 06 Member No.: 1,664 Gender: m  |
QUOTE(Johann @ Nov 15 2006, 05:14 PM) [snapback]160389[/snapback] Danny Shelton has maintained through this ordeal that we cannot judge him for what he did many years ago. Is he right? I am dumbfounded at the turn this has taken. The marital issues are the least of my concern. There are much more important issues at stake here. Danny and Linda married 20 years ago, or so. How in the world can either Danny or Linda respond to an alligation that they were sexually involved prior to their marriage? Thay can't. Such alligations are not fair to either of them. Twenty years of water, so to speak has passed under the bridge (Yes, I am mixing metaphores.). What is the value to us today of this focus? -------------------- Gregory Matthews posts here under the name "Observer."
|
 |
 
|
|
Nov 16 2006, 07:42 AM
Post
#32
|
|
 1,000 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 2,002 Joined: 18-July 06 From: Sweden Member No.: 1,902 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Johann @ Nov 15 2006, 11:27 PM) [snapback]160337[/snapback] Some time ago I met Linda's first husband's sister. She told me that her brother attended church with Linda for a short while. When their mother discovered this she demanded her son throw Linda out and he moved in with another woman. The mother would not have her son entangled with such a herecy as what her neighbors, the Shelton's, were promotiing. She did not evaluate Adventist by their doctrines, but by their behavior. Nobody should, should they? -------------------- Christ crucified for our sins, Christ risen from the dead, Christ ascended on high, is the science of salvation that we are to learn and to teach. {8T 287.2}
Most Noble and Honourable Thomas the Abstemious of Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch "I have said it before and I repeat it now: If someone could prove to me that apartheid is compatible with the Bible or christian faith, I would burn my bible and stop being a christian" Desmond Tutu |
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2006, 08:33 AM
Post
#33
|
|
 5,000 + posts  Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Observer @ Nov 16 2006, 06:22 AM) [snapback]160427[/snapback] I am dumbfounded at the turn this has taken. The marital issues are the least of my concern. There are much more important issues at stake here. Danny and Linda married 20 years ago, or so. How in the world can either Danny or Linda respond to an alligation that they were sexually involved prior to their marriage? Thay can't. Such alligations are not fair to either of them. Twenty years of water, so to speak has passed under the bridge (Yes, I am mixing metaphores.). What is the value to us today of this focus? yes they could.... its simple... either Linda and Danny had sex before they were married to each other, or they didn't... they may be older, but most people remember when they first had sex with their spouse before the official "I do" or after it... It is not a matter of fairness, it is a matter of context.... If the allegation is that Danny may have known his current wife before he was divorced from Linda, perhaps this is not the first time he entered into a relationship that was complicated by a marriage (either his or his intended)...... -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2006, 12:31 PM
Post
#34
|
|
|
500 + posts Group: Members Posts: 857 Joined: 6-April 06 Member No.: 1,664 Gender: m |
Re: " . . . perhaps this is not the first time he entered into a relationship that was complicated by a marriage (either his or his intended)......"
Yes, as the word "perhaps" has suggested, this is all speculation. There is no evidene to suggest that sex, even a single event, prior to marriage, will 20 years later make it more likely that those two will have sexual intercourse outside of their marriage. If Danny and Linda were sexually active prior to thier marriage, even once, it is not revelent to the issues that we face today. It is not fair to either. How can you defend aganist a 20 year-old alleged event? You cannot. Here is what is revelant today: Linda: 1) Did she, or did she not with Dr. A? 2) Did she have any inappropriate relationships with others while married to Danny? Danny: 1) What relationships did Danny have, if any, while married to Linda, with other women? 2) What relationship did Danny have with Brandi while married to Linda, and prior to his marriage to Brandi? The above questions are even-handed on both sides. They are appropriate to the issues we face today. Questions from 20 years ago are not. -------------------- Gregory Matthews posts here under the name "Observer."
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2006, 01:45 PM
Post
#35
|
|
 500 + posts Group: Members Posts: 530 Joined: 14-January 05 Member No.: 820 Gender: m |
... conversation between Nick and Nick.
Nick: Why does this entire 3abn thing seem like justifiable gossip among christians who claim that they want to see wongs made right?  Nick: dunno Nick. But the way I see it going.... jus nawt sure Jesus is too happy about it.... i jus  Ps ... oh.... don't mind me guys, I'm just having a lil talk with myself 
-------------------- "If we know Christ, we cannot be proud; if we know ourselves, we must be humble" Author Unknown
SOMETIMES YOU MUST LOSE TO WIN....CHRIST LOST OMNIPRESENCE TO WIN HUMANITY |
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2006, 01:59 PM
Post
#36
|
|
 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 2,015 Joined: 2-May 06 Member No.: 1,712 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Observer @ Nov 16 2006, 01:31 PM) [snapback]160481[/snapback] Re: " . . . perhaps this is not the first time he entered into a relationship that was complicated by a marriage (either his or his intended)......" Yes, as the word "perhaps" has suggested, this is all speculation. There is no evidene to suggest that sex, even a single event, prior to marriage, will 20 years later make it more likely that those two will have sexual intercourse outside of their marriage. If Danny and Linda were sexually active prior to thier marriage, even once, it is not revelent to the issues that we face today. It is not fair to either. How can you defend aganist a 20 year-old alleged event? You cannot. Here is what is revelant today: Linda: 1) Did she, or did she not with Dr. A? 2) Did she have any inappropriate relationships with others while married to Danny? Danny: 1) What relationships did Danny have, if any, while married to Linda, with other women? 2) What relationship did Danny have with Brandi while married to Linda, and prior to his marriage to Brandi? The above questions are even-handed on both sides. They are appropriate to the issues we face today. Questions from 20 years ago are not. When the issues we face today have to do with questions as to what kind of people founded the ministry some 20 years ago... then anything that was done then is relevent today. But frankly, I think your prior post on this was more to the point.... let's take another look at that... QUOTE(Observer @ Nov 16 2006, 07:22 AM) [snapback]160427[/snapback] I am dumbfounded at the turn this has taken. The marital issues are the least of my concern. There are much more important issues at stake here . Danny and Linda married 20 years ago, or so. How in the world can either Danny or Linda respond to an alligation that they were sexually involved prior to their marriage? Thay can't. Such alligations are not fair to either of them. Twenty years of water, so to speak has passed under the bridge (Yes, I am mixing metaphores.). What is the value to us today of this focus? When I was first introduced to the problems at 3abn, almost the first thing that was told to me by someone who had been at 3abn for long years was.... "This is NOT about Linda and Danny's relationship". This was the refrain that you, yourself, echoed repeatedly on the Club Adventist website throughout the years that it was open to discussion on the woes of 3abn. This was also the refrain spoken often by some of us throughout the years here on BSDA. And with that refrain have come the other issues.... the other areas of concern. The Televangelist, for example, pulled many of these concerns together, back in May of 2005. It was circulated fairly widely, but not until Sister brought it to BSDA, first in excerpts, and then in its entirety, was it ever published on a website where all could see. But even when it was, the individual areas it covered never drew the attention that they warrented and needed. (Even yet it is not included in the pinned items at the top of the menu, so newcomers only meet it if they dig deep into either the "Unauthorized History threads" or into the back pages of the thread menus.) And always someone has found a way to turn the focus back onto Linda and how Danny had treated her.... or onto Danny and whether he had the legalistic "biblical right" to remarry. What it has seemed to me from Day One is that Linda was used as a "red herring" to draw attention away from whatever other problems there was that the Shelton empire did not want anyone to see. As time went on, it began looking as though both Linda and Danny's private "affairs" were being used ... by all sides .... notice I said "all" not merely "both".... for the same purpose. The question is still..... WHY? And the greater question we who trust that God is leading in all of this may need to ask is a more thoughtful (as contrasted with emotional) "Why?".... that is to say..... what purpose might there be from God's viewpoint in allowing these distractions from what many of us see as the real task of doing a complete "house-cleaning" of 3abn so that it no longer casts a dark shadow on the name of the Adventist church... and even on God Himself? I have, for months, suggested that one answer to that question is that all has not yet been revealed that needs to be revealed. Not all of the conspirators have been identified. Not all of the corruption has been uncovered. If any of us were to be given the power right today to "clean house", do any of us really know who to depose and who to retain.... and who are the supporters in all "high places" that also need to be flushed out and down the drain? I don't think we do. And I am not at all sure that even those in the highest places in our church structure know that either.... though I'm sure there are many who know much more than I do. I have also stated for months that for most of us, this is now a time of waiting to see what develops from things that are being done "behind the scenes".... not only by our church leaders, but also by civil authorities. But waiting is one of the most difficult things in life to do.... especially for those of us who are "activists" at heart. I have also stated from the very beginning that the reason for these discussions is that of becoming informed, of spreading information so others could be informed... and all for the purpose of understanding.... not for the purpose of passing judgement on individuals... whether those individuals be victims, perpetrators, informers, or some of all these and more. And it is in this area that I believe the answer to your question, "What is the value to us today of this focus? " can find an answer that gives legitimacy to this area of Danny and Linda's life being brought before us. In order to rightly relate to all that is going on.... and to form personal opinions as to what needs to be done in order to clean out the mess at 3abn and see who should go and who should stay and who should be brought in.... we need very much to have some very comprehensive and accurate understandings of the individuals who have been invovled. We justified looking at events in Danny's past life on the basis of how it affected his present decisions and actions and by comparing the past with the present, asking whether there was a discontinuity between them, or a continuity and even perhaps an escalation of the same traits? By this understanding we can justifiably develop expectations for the future. And when it comes to the continuation of his ownership and operation of 3abn.... those questions are not restricted to his moral behavior--though they do include it.... neither are morals and ethics restricted to sexual issues..... and we are amiss in not spending more time proportionately on other areas of misconduct than what we have. Though we can be somewhat excused for that.... considering that these are areas in which legalities prevent us from even posting all of what is known, much less discussing it in any detail. We have not often allowed anything negative to be said about Linda.... out of compassion for the hurts she has suffered from Danny.... particularly in the last few years of her marriage and in the years since the divorce..... and the desire to not bring greater distress to her. That protectiveness has been good and right, IMO.... at least in the area where she is clearly innocent.... that of her relationship with Arild Abrahmsen. But that has also meant that we have a very one-sided picture of Linda, and we have very little basis of understanding her person, her role, her inner feeling towards her roles, her relationships..... or the reactions of others towards her .... or objective views of these roles and reactions. Maybe it is time that we enlarged our understanding by looking at some other facets of Linda's life than merely the way she has been treated by Danny for the last few years. And perhaps this little glimpse into the past ... showing the shaky ground on which they established their marriage can serve as a beginning of learning more about who Linda really is. We would, however, be falling into the same tunnel vision trap and using the same "red herring" technique, if we focus unduly upon this single aspect of her life. There are still all of the other problems of 3abn..... what really was her role in all of those.... was she really only an ineffective bystander with no ability to turn the tide of evil as it grew larger and larger? What about her role in her various positions at 3abn? How did she handle those responsibilities? And the reasons for asking these questions are not merely for coming to personal understandings or conclusions. There are two reasons why I feel it is vital for these things to be examined. 1) If, as we have reason to believe, there will be a legal examination of the "irregularities" of the money handling aspects of Danny's "regime".... then Linda WILL be a part of what is examined. There is no way that a distraction to marital matters will enter into that examination. A question that I have is.... is there any evidence that Linda is even yet either aware of or making preparations to meet the accusations that she will have to meet at that time? 2) In some of the informational material that I receive, it would seem as though either Linda or those who are advising her, are still seriously entertaining the hopes of her being reinstated at 3abn in her original role as half owner, including salary.... which presumably would entail her resuming some of her previous responsibilities, though that detail has not been mentioned. My question here has to do not only with the seemingly impossible psychological position that would put her and everyone else concerned in... but also the more practical one as to whether she is.... on the basis of how she ran the departments under her in the past..... capable of taking on such a position and job responsibilities? And finally.... can she maintain both a position of innocent inability to deal with things in the past and project the capability of wisely overseeing such things in the future simultaneously? I continue to care deeply for Linda. I fear that she is walking into a trap. One that will be much more damaging than anything she has experienced thus far..... and one that will make it even more difficult for the mess at 3abn... and where ever else it extends.... to be cleaned out. Information and understanding are the only tools and safeguards that I know of. I suggest we keep sharing them.... ranging as far and wide as our sources of information happen to know, rather than continuing to focus so closely upon Linda and Danny alone. |
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2006, 03:30 PM
Post
#37
|
|
|
5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Observer @ Nov 16 2006, 12:31 PM) [snapback]160481[/snapback] Re: " . . . perhaps this is not the first time he entered into a relationship that was complicated by a marriage (either his or his intended)......" Yes, as the word "perhaps" has suggested, this is all speculation. There is no evidene to suggest that sex, even a single event, prior to marriage, will 20 years later make it more likely that those two will have sexual intercourse outside of their marriage. If Danny and Linda were sexually active prior to thier marriage, even once, it is not revelent to the issues that we face today. It is not fair to either. How can you defend aganist a 20 year-old alleged event? You cannot. Here is what is revelant today: Linda: 1) Did she, or did she not with Dr. A? 2) Did she have any inappropriate relationships with others while married to Danny? Danny: 1) What relationships did Danny have, if any, while married to Linda, with other women? 2) What relationship did Danny have with Brandi while married to Linda, and prior to his marriage to Brandi? The above questions are even-handed on both sides. They are appropriate to the issues we face today. Questions from 20 years ago are not. in your opinion.... sometimes... more than often past behavior may be indicative of future behavior..... so for me, I want to know... QUOTE(nick @ Nov 16 2006, 01:45 PM) [snapback]160491[/snapback] ... conversation between Nick and Nick. Nick: Why does this entire 3abn thing seem like justifiable gossip among christians who claim that they want to see wongs made right? Nick: dunno Nick. But the way I see it going.... jus nawt sure Jesus is too happy about it.... i jus Ps ... oh.... don't mind me guys, I'm just having a lil talk with myself no one is forcing Nick to read a word in this forum.... as for what it seems like to Nick, Nick has been mistaken before.... if Nick has a problem with the content in this area, Nick can play in other areas of the forum... then again, Nick knows this.... -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2006, 03:59 PM
Post
#38
|
|
 Advanced Member  Group: Members Posts: 441 Joined: 4-August 04 Member No.: 514 |
Watchird, deep and thoughtprovoking musings indeed!
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2006, 04:01 PM
Post
#39
|
|
|
500 + posts Group: Members Posts: 530 Joined: 14-January 05 Member No.: 820 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Clay @ Nov 16 2006, 09:30 PM) [snapback]160515[/snapback] in your opinion.... sometimes... more than often past behavior may be indicative of future behavior..... so for me, I want to know... no one is forcing Nick to read a word in this forum.... as for what it seems like to Nick, Nick has been mistaken before.... if Nick has a problem with the content in this area, Nick can play in other areas of the forum... then again, Nick knows this.... Nick: you know Nick, the thought that Nick is right!!! Kills!!!! Nick:  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nick: I mean, some folks may be here genuinely, but the majority seem to be here for the saucy news. Nick: Point taken. It really amazed me how this 'saga' grew so fast here... even getting it's own forum an all that  .Nick: yea... and... have you noticed the amount of peeps who came running to bsda jus' fo' this story. Nick: mmmmmmm... scary Nick 
This post has been edited by nick: Nov 16 2006, 04:10 PM -------------------- "If we know Christ, we cannot be proud; if we know ourselves, we must be humble" Author Unknown
SOMETIMES YOU MUST LOSE TO WIN....CHRIST LOST OMNIPRESENCE TO WIN HUMANITY |
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2006, 04:39 PM
Post
#40
|
|
 5,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 10,513 Joined: 17-January 05 From: Nashville, Tennessee Member No.: 830 Gender: f |
 QUOTE(nick @ Nov 16 2006, 05:01 PM) [snapback]160523[/snapback] Nick: you know Nick, the thought that Nick is right!!! Kills!!!! Nick: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nick: I mean, some folks may be here genuinely, but the majority seem to be here for the saucy news. Nick: Point taken. It really amazed me how this 'saga' grew so fast here... even getting it's own forum an all that .Nick: yea... and... have you noticed the amount of peeps who came running to bsda jus' fo' this story. Nick: mmmmmmm... scary Nick QUOTE(nick @ Nov 16 2006, 02:45 PM) [snapback]160491[/snapback] ... conversation between Nick and Nick. Nick: Why does this entire 3abn thing seem like justifiable gossip among christians who claim that they want to see wongs made right? Nick: dunno Nick. But the way I see it going.... jus nawt sure Jesus is too happy about it.... i jus Ps ... oh.... don't mind me guys, I'm just having a lil talk with myself -------------------- "No weapon formed against YOU (Sarah--and every Believer/Servant of God) shall prosper and every tongue that rises against you in judgement you will condemn...."--Isaiah 54:17
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2006, 05:19 PM
Post
#41
|
|
 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 2,251 Joined: 25-August 06 Member No.: 2,169 Gender: f |
QUOTE(fallible humanbeing @ Nov 15 2006, 12:02 PM) [snapback]160312[/snapback] Yesterday I came a cross a Google hit that awesumtenor also provided in the thread you linked to. Here is the post. And the external link to the story, here (the article is circa 1976). - fhb FHB, When I was Googling Oscar Lane's name, I did come up with several hits on this article. I got as far as the San Francisco portion and then, after a brief and fruitless scan of the rest, had to leave without reading further and finding the part about this fellow. I wish I had read it then! There are some interesting similarities to the financial dealings of another fundraiser who is discussed on this very forum from time to time. It is a good read and I would suggest that others follow your link to the "Los Angeles" entry in this interesting piece of last century history. I particularly enjoyed the author's description of Petaluma, an agricultural city just south of my own stomping grounds as "a giant cow pasture". PB -------------------- Got Peace?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. "Truth welcomes examination and doesn't need to defend itself, while deception hides in darkness and blames everyone else." Aunt B, 2007 |
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2006, 07:31 PM
Post
#42
|
|
|
5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
QUOTE(nick @ Nov 16 2006, 04:01 PM) [snapback]160523[/snapback] Nick: you know Nick, the thought that Nick is right!!! Kills!!!! Nick: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nick: I mean, some folks may be here genuinely, but the majority seem to be here for the saucy news. Nick: Point taken. It really amazed me how this 'saga' grew so fast here... even getting it's own forum an all that .Nick: yea... and... have you noticed the amount of peeps who came running to bsda jus' fo' this story. Nick: mmmmmmm... scary Nick for all of Nick's protesting, it is noticed that Nick is still here reading to Nick's heart's content... says something about Nick..... -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2006, 08:39 PM
Post
#43
|
|
|
1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 2,251 Joined: 25-August 06 Member No.: 2,169 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Fran @ Nov 15 2006, 01:29 AM) [snapback]160245[/snapback] That Danny was not called by God to start 3ABN. No matter if it was October or November of 1984, or any other date. God would have used a non-adulter, a non-fornicator, a non-molestor, or a non-rapist. That boat just don't float. Excuse me while I get sick!  This morning I got up a member of the World Seventh-day Adventist, but this mess has me ashamed of my world church and ASI. I think I will have to re-think just what I am again! I have to re-think what I stand for. I do not believe I have any more faith in our church leadership, and I don't trust ASI or 3ABN. How can I listen to preachers in my church any longer?  Today began as the worst day of my life. It has ended that way too. May God help me! Fran, While we are here on this old world there is only one Person that we can count on and safely put our faith in 100% of the time - our God. Human beings always have the potential to fail, to do wrong things. It is never safe for us to look at them as anything more than fellow pilgrims on this journey. The SDA church we are a part of, the Body of Christ, is made up of the same fallible human beings. Sometimes this body has viruses, bacterial infections and even cancers. When we allow it, the illnesses can be healed by the Great Physician but sometimes a malignancy needs to be removed. While the Holy Spirit provides fruits and gifts to the Body of Christ so that by using them the body's members are strengthened, our ultimate focus has to be on the LORD. "Finally, be strong in the Lord, and in His mighty power!" Eph. 6:10 -------------------- Got Peace?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. "Truth welcomes examination and doesn't need to defend itself, while deception hides in darkness and blames everyone else." Aunt B, 2007 |
|
|
|
|
Nov 17 2006, 01:33 AM
Post
#44
|
|
|
500 + posts Group: Members Posts: 530 Joined: 14-January 05 Member No.: 820 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Clay @ Nov 17 2006, 01:31 AM) [snapback]160548[/snapback] for all of Nick's protesting, it is noticed that Nick is still here reading to Nick's heart's content... says something about Nick..... Nick: they're just not getting it are they Nick  Nick: Nick: they're looking past the issue raised (wonder if they have even thought about it ) and go straight into justifying their actions, by trying to take you on a guilt trip  . You rolling Nick?Nick: Not on that trip I am!! Truth is truth and I will keep speaking about it. MOST FOLK HERE COME FOR THE ILL TALK, HAVING ITCHING EARS. They don't come so much with genuine christian concern. Nick: As if saying 'If the laundry is dirty, we want to go through it', 'we'll just say that we long to see it clean and that'll justify our 'dirty laundry searching''. You do realise that there is a subconcious admittance of 'reading to one's hearts content'? Nick: Well put Nick, the motive is scattered throughout the posts here  .... what can I say, great minds do think alike  Nick: Well you know me better than anyone Nick  Nick and Nick :  Let's hope they get it this time, we're not against this forum or any other - just calling for folk to clean up thier act, like they profess to be doing in Danny's case.
This post has been edited by nick: Nov 17 2006, 01:42 AM -------------------- "If we know Christ, we cannot be proud; if we know ourselves, we must be humble" Author Unknown
SOMETIMES YOU MUST LOSE TO WIN....CHRIST LOST OMNIPRESENCE TO WIN HUMANITY |
|
|
|
|
Nov 17 2006, 06:22 AM
Post
#45
|
|
|
5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
Nick, there are meds for what you have...... you may need to avail yourself.....
-------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
|
|
|
|
|
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
| Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 23rd March 2008 - 03:50 PM |
