Questions For Joe Smith, for starters: "mansion" & "huge pool" Options

[Green Cochoa]

This is just an aside from the Shelton case, but in the world today, many have what is known as phone or internet sex. Is that adultery?
just wonderin'

Sin, yes. Immoral, yes. Adultery--not in the sense of grounds for divorce. Look, we could go through a whole list of things here, such as couples watching erotic stuff together, fantasizing to get in the mood, etc. The fact is, and this gets a little sticky, lustful thoughts towards one's own spouse may become immoral and base, and sinful. Yet this would be a far cry from grounds for divorce!

Now, if you want my extra-biblical thoughts on this: I am of the opinion, and I do not try to claim this as biblical, right, or valid, it is just my opinion, that there should be one other legal grounds for divorce besides adultery: IV drug use. The reason? Adulterers and drug addicts both share one commonality: risk of life-threatening diseases such as HIV. God does not ask us to expose ourselves to a potential death sentence. This would be akin to suicide. Therefore, it is my personal belief that any lifestyle which so basely puts the life of the partner at risk as this should be grounds for divorce. Now, remarriage is a separate issue still.

No one, that I'm aware of, would be able to pass HIV over the phone or internet. But, then, this is all just an aside to your aside. Really, the Bible does not define adultery in terms of any sort of imagined or long-distance relationship--it's when the two are caught together!

Regarding where this "spiritual adultery" theory originated: I heard it first hand from Danny's lips where he claimed the marriage counselors told Linda that she was committing "spiritual adultery" and that "spiritual adultery" always leads to "physical adultery." By so saying, Danny intended to lead us to believe that the physical adultery was likely already a material fact, and that even if it were not, that he already had grounds for divorce. I'm sure that Walt Thompson was merely reflecting Danny's take.

[Ed White]

Maybe someone else does, I don't recall reading that anywhere here or anywhere else???

To the best of my knowledge this is where the term "spiritual adultery" originated.

Walt thompson's letter to Gregory Matthews:

"In early March Danny called me. He was very distraught as he told me what Linda was doing. I immediately traveled to 3abn to find out for myself, and for the next two to three months was there for a few days almost every week. During this time I and a small committee of the board had a number of sessions with Linda, encouraging her to break off the relationship that was ruining her home and putting a serious strain on the ministry. Pastor John L. was one of the first to counsel Linda. From the start, before meeting with Danny and Linda together he warned Linda that what she was doing was wrong, and must stop. He then spent hours counseling the two of them together. I am not sure how many other sessions were had. When I arrived, I arranged for Pastor John, Linda and Danny and I to meet together. We met, talked and prayed. Both Danny and Linda were anointed, and committed to God to do what was right. Linda promised us to cut off the relationship. Not long (I don't remember the length of time, but probably less than an hour) she was secretly on the phone to Norway with the doctor again. We had other sessions with her where she reluctantly made similar agreements, but usually said she was not going to give him up until she was sure Danny would stop interfering in her affairs - as if it was Danny's fault they were having trouble. On one occasion I was able to get the doctor on the phone. I begged him to break of the relationship. He told me he would not. We arranged for Danny and Linda to visit a marriage counselor couple out of state. They were not Adventist, but devout Christians of another faith. They were chosen so that Linda could not claim that they were biased, if Adventist. Danny and Linda spent eight hours with the counselors. They were the one's who told Linda she was committing "spiritual adultery" and that it was wrong and must be stopped at once. She made excuses, said she was doing nothing wrong. They warned her that the way she was going it would soon become physical."
Me too.
That's weird, How did my post, which you were responding to end up below your reply to it, along with my next repy???

It happened again. every time I reply, it just adds to the previous post instead of being a new post???

Altheia with you being house bound in the middle of a cornfield during a snowstorm has given you a memory like an elephant, please continue on. But now we see the root of the problem, it was these licensed counselors that received their physiology training from it’s founder Sigmund Freud [the pervert] that put these words in Danny’s mouth, maybe he is not a guilty as those on the board that pointed out to him & Linda to seek help from a broken cistern. Listen up to all licensed marriage counselors out there and those that are moonlighting as such, just how much weaker do you want to become by allowing someone tell you their problem?
“When perplexities arise, and difficulties confront you, look not for help to humanity. Trust all with God. The practice of telling our difficulties to others only makes us weak, and brings no strength to them. It lays upon them the burden of our spiritual infirmities, which they cannot relieve. We seek the strength of erring, finite man, when we might have the strength of the unerring, infinite God.
You need not go to the ends of the earth for wisdom, for God is near. It is not the capabilities you now possess or ever will have that will give you success. It is that which the Lord can do for you. We need to have far less confidence in what man can do and far more confidence in what God can do for every believing soul. He longs to have you reach after Him by faith. He longs to have you expect great things from Him. He longs to give you understanding in temporal as well as in spiritual matters. He can sharpen the intellect. He can give tact and skill. Put your talents into the work, ask God for wisdom, and it will be given you.” { COL 146

Danny now that you know you were given a bum steer right out of the shute, you can blame it all on the board chairman and you get off scott free. But holt it, truth telling is still required. Don't you know the "Truthfulness shall mark His people even in the greatest of peril." If you or anyone tells lies, you are not His people! That goes for all the doctrinal discourses you allow on 3ABN as well.

[Pickle]

At this point I'd want evidence to that effect before we blame it all on the counselors. How do we know that they said that? Is that based only on Danny's word, or Linda's too?

If they both agree, then it is probably so.

[watchbird]

That's weird, How did my post, which you were responding to end up below your reply to it, along with my next repy???

It happened again. every time I reply, it just adds to the previous post instead of being a new post???

Anytime you reply within 20 minutes of posting.... unless someone else has responded within that time.... your new reply will be considered part of the previous and be added to it. The only way to force it to go to a new post is to wait.....

[Brother Sam]

What I want to know is why in the world would an adventist go to a non adventist for counseling?

Doesn't Danny or anyone on the board know adventist are counseled against going to non SDA counselors for advise.

It only shows me that they don't have the discernment to govern themselves let alone 3ABN!

P.S.

If you listen close enough, after a while you will realize that Danny has never told the truth as far back as anyone wants to check.

[no_cults]

Sin, yes. Immoral, yes. Adultery--not in the sense of grounds for divorce. Look, we could go through a whole list of things here, such as couples watching erotic stuff together, fantasizing to get in the mood, etc. The fact is, and this gets a little sticky, lustful thoughts towards one's own spouse may become immoral and base, and sinful. Yet this would be a far cry from grounds for divorce!

Now, if you want my extra-biblical thoughts on this: I am of the opinion, and I do not try to claim this as biblical, right, or valid, it is just my opinion, that there should be one other legal grounds for divorce besides adultery: IV drug use. The reason? Adulterers and drug addicts both share one commonality: risk of life-threatening diseases such as HIV. God does not ask us to expose ourselves to a potential death sentence. This would be akin to suicide. Therefore, it is my personal belief that any lifestyle which so basely puts the life of the partner at risk as this should be grounds for divorce. Now, remarriage is a separate issue still.

No one, that I'm aware of, would be able to pass HIV over the phone or internet. But, then, this is all just an aside to your aside. Really, the Bible does not define adultery in terms of any sort of imagined or long-distance relationship--it's when the two are caught together!

Regarding where this "spiritual adultery" theory originated: I heard it first hand from Danny's lips where he claimed the marriage counselors told Linda that she was committing "spiritual adultery" and that "spiritual adultery" always leads to "physical adultery." By so saying, Danny intended to lead us to believe that the physical adultery was likely already a material fact, and that even if it were not, that he already had grounds for divorce. I'm sure that Walt Thompson was merely reflecting Danny's take.

In the past, "Spiritual Adultery" usually had a theological connotation and had
nothing to do with any form of sex between people. This new meaning, I think
was dreamed up by Danny Shelton. At least, I had never heard it used before
in this sort of proposed meaning.

[Clay]

What I want to know is why in the world would an adventist go to a non adventist for counseling?

Doesn't Danny or anyone on the board know adventist are counseled against going to non SDA counselors for advise.

It only shows me that they don't have the discernment to govern themselves let alone 3ABN!

P.S.

If you listen close enough, after a while you will realize that Danny has never told the truth as far back as anyone wants to check.

because sometimes nonadventist counselors may be more objective than adventist ones... and yes there are christian counselors that are more than capable of helping couples work through their problems.... let's be clear though, it takes TWO to make a relationship/marriage but it only takes ONE to break up a marriage.... so if both people are not interested in getting the most out of the counseling, if one of them is looking to end the relationship, then counseling will not be successful....

[Observer]

Maybe someone else does, I don't recall reading that anywhere here or anywhere else???

To the best of my knowledge this is where the term "spiritual adultery" originated.

Walt Thompson's letter to Gregory Matthews:

"In early March Danny called me. He was very distraught as he told me what Linda was doing. I immediately traveled to 3abn to find out for myself, and for the next two to three months was there for a few days almost every week. During this time I and a small committee of the board had a number of sessions with Linda, encouraging her to break off the relationship that was ruining her home and putting a serious strain on the ministry. Pastor John L. was one of the first to counsel Linda. From the start, before meeting with Danny and Linda together he warned Linda that what she was doing was wrong, and must stop. He then spent hours counseling the two of them together. I am not sure how many other sessions were had. When I arrived, I arranged for Pastor John, Linda and Danny and I to meet together. We met, talked and prayed. Both Danny and Linda were anointed, and committed to God to do what was right. Linda promised us to cut off the relationship. Not long (I don't remember the length of time, but probably less than an hour) she was secretly on the phone to Norway with the doctor again. We had other sessions with her where she reluctantly made similar agreements, but usually said she was not going to give him up until she was sure Danny would stop interfering in her affairs - as if it was Danny's fault they were having trouble. On one occasion I was able to get the doctor on the phone. I begged him to break of the relationship. He told me he would not. We arranged for Danny and Linda to visit a marriage counselor couple out of state. They were not Adventist, but devout Christians of another faith. They were chosen so that Linda could not claim that they were biased, if Adventist. Danny and Linda spent eight hours with the counselors. They were the one's who told Linda she was committing "spiritual adultery" and that it was wrong and must be stopped at once. She made excuses, said she was doing nothing wrong. They warned her that the way she was going it would soon become physical."
Me too.
That's weird, How did my post, which you were responding to end up below your reply to it, along with my next repy???

It happened again. every time I reply, it just adds to the previous post instead of being a new post???

Alethia:

You have cited a letter that you say Dr. Thompson wrote to me. I am not at a place where I can check my records, and I do not know whan I will be--tomorrow, maybe, maybe not. Please cite your authority for saying that your quotation is an accurate copy of a letter that Dr. Thompson sent to me.

Certainly, I have had contact with Dr. Thompson. He has stated some of what you have quoted to me. But, I do not recall him sending me a message as you have posted it above.

As time has passed, it may be that you are correct, and I simply do not remember. If you cite your authority, and a date for the supposed message, I will be able to confirm your post.

Thank you,
Gregory Matthews

NOTE: In the above quote, I think my "spell-check" may have corrected a spelling error in your post. I appologize for that possible change in your quote.

This post has been edited by Observer: Dec 27 2006, 12:07 PM

[Chez]

[quote name='Aletheia' date='Dec 27 2006, 11:27 AM' post='165812']
Maybe someone else does, I don't recall reading that anywhere here or anywhere else???

To the best of my knowledge this is where the term "spiritual adultery" originated.

Walt thompson's letter to Gregory Matthews:

"In early March Danny called me. He was very distraught as he told me what Linda was doing. I immediately traveled to 3abn to find out for myself, and for the next two to three months was there for a few days almost every week. During this time I and a small committee of the board had a number of sessions with Linda, encouraging her to break off the relationship that was ruining her home and putting a serious strain on the ministry. Pastor John L. was one of the first to counsel Linda. From the start, before meeting with Danny and Linda together he warned Linda that what she was doing was wrong, and must stop. He then spent hours counseling the two of them together. I am not sure how many other sessions were had. When I arrived, I arranged for Pastor John, Linda and Danny and I to meet together. We met, talked and prayed. Both Danny and Linda were anointed, and committed to God to do what was right. Linda promised us to cut off the relationship. Not long (I don't remember the length of time, but probably less than an hour) she was secretly on the phone to Norway with the doctor again. We had other sessions with her where she reluctantly made similar agreements, but usually said she was not going to give him up until she was sure Danny would stop interfering in her affairs - as if it was Danny's fault they were having trouble. On one occasion I was able to get the doctor on the phone. I begged him to break of the relationship. He told me he would not. We arranged for Danny and Linda to visit a marriage counselor couple out of state. They were not Adventist, but devout Christians of another faith. They were chosen so that Linda could not claim that they were biased, if Adventist. Danny and Linda spent eight hours with the counselors. They were the one's who told Linda she was committing "spiritual adultery" and that it was wrong and must be stopped at once. She made excuses, said she was doing nothing wrong. They warned her that the way she was going it would soon become physical."


According to this letter, if Linda had had a "relationship" with the doctor, it wasn't sexual at time as Danny had implied. Also this letter tells me that Linda and the Dr. spent a lot of time on the phone. From my point of view, it was understandable for them to spend quite a bit of time conversing when considering Nathan's treatment. It has been my understanding that in order for treatment of substance abuse to be affective, the person and his/her close family/friends need to be involved. I was told back in 2004 that Danny believed that if a person of the opposite sex (who were in a situation such as Linda and the Dr.) spent more that 10 minutes talking to each other on the telephone, that the persons were committing "spiritual adultery". I had never heard of such a phenomenon. My husband and discussed that in my business/line of work, if Danny's definition is true, then I have committed a lot of spiritual adultery. I need to wear garments covered in "SA".

[watchbird]

At this point I'd want evidence to that effect before we blame it all on the counselors. How do we know that they said that? Is that based only on Danny's word, or Linda's too?

If they both agree, then it is probably so.

I am quite certain Linda will not agree.

The first words about it claimed that he read it in a book.... that anytime any woman spent more than 5 minutes on the phone with a male not her husband or close family member, it could be considered "spiritual adultery". Then when he was challenged on that he dropped the term and hasn't used it so far as I know since. Unfortunately it caught the eyes of those who were reading about things so they have kept the term alive, way beyond any time Danny was using it.

Actually, this is fairly standard for the Fundamentalis/Pentecostal view of what it means for women to submit to their husbands.... and several of the women at 3ABN are firmly in this camp. So there is no need to blame "counselors" for the term.... as Ed White did..... it doesn't come from any known "school of psychology"... it's just plain ol' Fundamentalist male chauvinism at work.

As far as what the "counselors" said, I have heard from various sources that they said little at all.... that Danny gave them a sizeable donation for their "ministry" and explained his view of things and they didn't find any reason to contradict him.... and under the circumstances Linda didn't find any reason for giving much of "her side"....

It should be about time that Linda can talk.... so maybe we'll start getting more input from her? Or at least from those who contact her directly and can report to us?

[Pickle]

You have cited a letter that you say Dr. Thompson wrote to me. I am not at a place where I can check my records, and I do not know whan I will be--tomorrow, maybe, maybe not. Please cite your authority for saying that your quotation is an accurate copy of a letter that Dr. Thompson sent to me.

Same letter that has the paid off her car claim, but it wasn't originally sent to you.

Letter posted by Gregory.

[Green Cochoa]

...
The first words about it claimed that he read it in a book.... that anytime any woman spent more than 5 minutes on the phone with a male not her husband or close family member, it could be considered "spiritual adultery". Then when he was challenged on that he dropped the term and hasn't used it so far as I know since. Unfortunately it caught the eyes of those who were reading about things so they have kept the term alive, way beyond any time Danny was using it.
...

Watchbird, when would you say he dropped the term? Do you suppose this was because he faced an uphill battle getting people to accept it as a legitimate cause for his divorce?

[Clay]

Watchbird, when would you say he dropped the term? Do you suppose this was because he faced an uphill battle getting people to accept it as a legitimate cause for his divorce?

you know it Greenie.... try dropping the term in an after dinner conversation this sabbath..... see how people react.... it is ludicrous.... unless of course you are of the mindset that women should be submissive 24/7 and that if they spend more than 5 minutes on the phone talking to a man that is not their hubby constitutes spiritual adultery..... foolishness.....

[Ed White]

What I want to know is why in the world would an adventist go to a non adventist for counseling?

Doesn't Danny or anyone on the board know adventist are counseled against going to non SDA counselors for advise.

It only shows me that they don't have the discernment to govern themselves let alone 3ABN!

P.S.

If you listen close enough, after a while you will realize that Danny has never told the truth as far back as anyone wants to check.

I might mention Danny once had a “Christian counselor” on his 3ABN program for a series of meetings.

post edited for content by staff

[Aletheia]

Alethia:

You have cited a letter that you say Dr. Thompson wrote to me. I am not at a place where I can check my records, and I do not know whan I will be--tomorrow, maybe, maybe not. Please cite your authority for saying that your quotation is an accurate copy of a letter that Dr. Thompson sent to me.

Certainly, I have had contact with Dr. Thompson. He has stated some of what you have quoted to me. But, I do not recall him sending me a message as you have posted it above.

As time has passed, it may be that you are correct, and I simply do not remember. If you cite your authority, and a date for the supposed message, I will be able to confirm your post.

Thank you,
Gregory Matthews

NOTE: In the above quote, I think my "spell-check" may have corrected a spelling error in your post. I appologize for that possible change in your quote.

As long as the meaning isn't altered, I could careless about spelling corrections...

I apologise if I incorrectly attributed the letter as being to you, but you are the authority...

You yourself originally posted the letter on the Maritime forum, on 08/25/06
http://www.maritime-sda-online.org/forums/...e=3&fpart=1

You posted this as a preface:

"A letter from Dr. Walter Thompson
Gregory Gregory
Chaplain

Posted below, is a message that Dr. Walter Thompson, 3-ABN Board Chair, is believed to have sent to a person who inquired about this situation.

Why do I believe that is actually came from Dr. Thompson? Because it is consistent with other material that I believe he has sent out. I am posting it here, because, as I have found to be typical, it has minor variations with other such responses.

In any case, if he denies that it is his, his statement will be posted here in MSDAOL.

I have removed certain idenitfying information as to the person who recieved this e-mail. Otherwise I have posted it without any editing.




And it was posted here on BSDA as well. after you had posted it on Maritime.

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...=10845&st=0

~ Aletheia