Tommy Shelton Vindicated!, I hope. Options

[lookin4truth]

I don't want to be hard on ya, but this is a little unfair. Just because some of the people work at 3ABN is no reason to list the entire board of another organization--I happen to know at least two of them and I have the highest respect for their integrity. And just because the organization is housed in Thomsenvilled doesn't mean everyone their approves of 3ABN.

Just because they're in the same town doesn't mean they knew what was going on. Hasn't it been pretty clear that Danny lied to his own board chairman about his brother's alleged behavior?

You may notice that I put some names in RED. That would indicate that I was bringing attention to THOSE names.

I was pointing to the fact that THOSE people are key people at 3ABN, where two of the people in leadership positions are accused of sexual misconduct, and these people in RED are on the board of an organization, which deals with sexual abuse from people in pastoral positions or other positions of authority.

In what way did I do harm to the other people listed, when that is exactly how it is listed on the website? I made no statement that they were in any way involved with the 3ABN issues.



The following NOTE was added to the original post
NOTE: There was no intention to question the character of board members not associated with 3ABN


This post has been edited by lookin4truth: Feb 27 2007, 12:06 AM

[Bystander]

I don't want to be hard on ya, but this is a little unfair. Just because some of the people work at 3ABN is no reason to list the entire board of another organization--I happen to know at least two of them and I have the highest respect for their integrity. And just because the organization is housed in Thomsenvilled doesn't mean everyone their approves of 3ABN.

Just because they're in the same town doesn't mean they knew what was going on. Hasn't it been pretty clear that Danny lied to his own board chairman about his brother's alleged behavior?

No that hasn't been proven at all. Especially when the board chairman himself, says he wasn't lied to in any way. You should be careful about calling people liars. Especially, if you do not even know the people.

[sister]

You may notice that I put some names in RED. That would indicate that I was bringing attention to THOSE names.

I was pointing to the fact that THOSE people are key people at 3ABN, where two of the people in leadership positions are accused of sexual misconduct, and these people in RED are on the board of an organization, which deals with sexual abuse from people in pastoral positions or other positions of authority.

In what way did I do harm to the other people listed, when that is exactly how it is listed on the website? I made no statement that they were in any way involved with the 3ABN issues.

Actually, you need to include one more name in red: Irma Murray. Irma is the wife of C.A. Murray. There are four members of the Board that work at 3ABN.

Also, the following email may shed further light upon the situation in regard to "The Hope of Survivors" involvement with 3ABN. Since the time of this email two additional 3ABN employees were added to their Board (C.A. and Irma Murray):

From: Help [mailto:help@thehopeofsurvivors.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 11:36 AM
To: Mable Dunbar
Subject: Affiliation with PPN

Dear Mable,

It is with deep regrets that I must let you know that The Hope of Survivors must discontinue its affiliation with Polly's Place Network effective immediately.

I want to assure you that this decision in no way reflects on anyone personally, or on the goals of PPN. The decision to remove our affiliation was necessitated by the notification we received today of some programs PPN is planning on doing regarding abuse involving Linda Shelton.

As you know, Steve is currently employed by 3ABN and two of our Directors (JD & Shelley Quinn) are also employed there. The actions of PPN, in this particular situation with Linda Shelton, pose a very serious situation for us, personally, and constitute a conflict of interest due to the employment of three of our directors being at 3ABN.

I'm afraid we must also pull the publication of my book, as that, too , would be a conflict of interest if published by PPN.

I am sorry that this has occurred. On a personal note, while none of us know all the details pertaining to the Shelton's situation, it would be advisable to validate the information you've been given.

Steve and I have appreciated your participation on our Board and your support and encouragement, as well as friendship. We pray that friendship will not be affected.

We will complete the work on the PPN site (that was previously paid in full) as soon as possible. It is very near completion.

Yours in Christ,
Samantha



This post has been edited by sister: Feb 27 2007, 12:25 AM

[Panama_Pete]

Actually, you need to include one more name in red: Irma Murray. Irma is the wife of C.A. Murray. There are four members of the Board that work at 3ABN.

Also, the following email may shed further light upon the situation in regard to "The Hope of Survivors" involvement with 3ABN. Since the time of this email two additional 3ABN employees were added to their Board (C.A. and Irma Murray):

From: Help [mailto:help@thehopeofsurvivors.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 11:36 AM
To: Mable Dunbar
Subject: Affiliation with PPN

Dear Mable,

It is with deep regrets that I must let you know that The Hope of Survivors must discontinue its affiliation with Polly's Place Network effective immediately.

I want to assure you that this decision in no way reflects on anyone personally, or on the goals of PPN. The decision to remove our affiliation was necessitated by the notification we received today of some programs PPN is planning on doing regarding abuse involving Linda Shelton.

As you know, Steve is currently employed by 3ABN and two of our Directors (JD & Shelley Quinn) are also employed there. The actions of PPN, in this particular situation with Linda Shelton, pose a very serious situation for us, personally, and constitute a conflict of interest due to the employment of three of our directors being at 3ABN.

I'm afraid we must also pull the publication of my book, as that, too , would be a conflict of interest if published by PPN.

I am sorry that this has occurred. On a personal note, while none of us know all the details pertaining to the Shelton's situation, it would be advisable to validate the information you've been given.

Steve and I have appreciated your participation on our Board and your support and encouragement, as well as friendship. We pray that friendship will not be affected.

We will complete the work on the PPN site (that was previously paid in full) as soon as possible. It is very near completion.

Yours in Christ,
Samantha

Sister mentioned in her post that Steve Nelson is an employee of Three Angels Broadcasting. I understand that he is the 3ABN webmaster.

http://thehopeofsurvivors.com/biographies/Steve_Samantha.asp

"Samantha works full-time (currently as a volunteer) for The Hope of Survivors, which is a tax-exempt 501©(3) nonprofit corporation. Steve is currently employed at Three Angels Broadcasting Network (3ABN)."

Also, in addition to Irma Murray, we should also consider the possibility that Tom Lemon knows, or should know, what transpires in Thompsonville, due to his past working relationships with Better Life TV and Danny Shelton.

Tom Lemon is now on the Minnesota Conference staff, but was previously stationed in Oregon helping Danny Shelton and the Better Life TV staff upgrade their 3ABN-affiliated stations.

http://www.betterlifetv.tv/headlines.php?feature_id=1

"Advancing this idea would require visits with Danny Shelton of 3ABN and Tom Lemon of the Oregon Conference. Appointments were made and meetings with both occurred in mid October 2005 with very favorable results."

It would be rather difficult for all of these people who are entwined with 3ABN, in one way or another, to have their heads permanently in the sand like ostriches.

[Bystander]

It would be rather difficult for all of these people who are entwined with 3ABN, in one way or another, to have their heads permanently in the sand like ostriches.

More than difficult. It would be impossible. That, in itself ,should tell you something. How long can it continue to be said that Many of the Conference leaders, the thousands of members of ASI, Garwin M, The 3abn board, everyone that goes to the 3abn church (approx 150 people), Doug B with Amazing Facts, Mark Finley, David Ashhrick, The mitcheff sisters, The Aikens, hundreds of other ministries that come to 3abn, the supporters, the ministry that you refer to in this thread, adventist pastors all over the country, Steve Darmondy, Jennifer LaMountain, Ullanda Innocence, Kay Kuzma, Dr Baldwin, Agatha Thrash, Steve Wohlberg,,and I could go on and on. How long can it continue to be said that all of these thousands of respected and intelligent people have been duped by 3abn. I guess you all can say it from now on but it is neither believable or realistic. To quote you, " it would be rather difficult for all of these people who are entwined with 3ABN in one way or another, to have their heads permanently in the sand like ostriches.
I couldn't have put it better myself.

This post has been edited by Bystander: Feb 27 2007, 01:20 AM

[Panama_Pete]

More than difficult. It would be impossible. That, in itself ,should tell you something. How long can it continue to be said that Many of the Conference leaders, the thousands of members of ASI, Garwin M, The 3abn board, everyone that goes to the 3abn church (approx 150 people), Doug B with Amazing Facts, Mark Finley, David Ashhrick, The mitcheff sisters, The Aikens, hundreds of other ministries that come to 3abn, the supporters, the ministry that you refer to in this thread, adventist pastors all over the country, Steve Darmondy, Jennifer LaMountain, Ullanda Innocence, Kay Kuzma, Dr Baldwin, Agatha Thrash, Steve Wohlberg,,and I could go on and on. by 3abn.

Ted Haggard's New Life Church in Colorado Springs has 14,000 members. They were all fooled for awhile. New Life Church has hundreds of wealthy, influential people, too; Having luminaries among the congregation is no guarantee of anything.

How long can it continue to be said that all of these thousands of respected and intelligent people have been duped

With more than 50,000 hits (at last count) at the Save3ABN.com Web site, I really do think you are going to have an answer to that question, yourself, without me saying anything more. The latest Adventist Today article is circulating widely as well.

My personal feeling is that Danny Shelton allowed success to go to his head and he overestimated his own abilities, power, and influence. With that, he underestimated the intelligence of others, and began making choices that can only be called "unthinking."

Danny Shelton seems to have started something he cannot finish, and if he had it to do all over again, I think he would choose other options. If Danny had made other choices, earlier, you would not be forced to burn the midnight oil in a valiant attempt at defending him tonight.

Pete

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Feb 27 2007, 01:49 AM

[erik]

More than difficult. It would be impossible. That, in itself ,should tell you something. How long can it continue to be said that Many of the Conference leaders, the thousands of members of ASI, Garwin M, The 3abn board, everyone that goes to the 3abn church (approx 150 people), Doug B with Amazing Facts, Mark Finley, David Ashhrick, The mitcheff sisters, The Aikens, hundreds of other ministries that come to 3abn, the supporters, the ministry that you refer to in this thread, adventist pastors all over the country, Steve Darmondy, Jennifer LaMountain, Ullanda Innocence, Kay Kuzma, Dr Baldwin, Agatha Thrash, Steve Wohlberg,,and I could go on and on. How long can it continue to be said that all of these thousands of respected and intelligent people have been duped by 3abn. I guess you all can say it from now on but it is neither believable or realistic. To quote you, " it would be rather difficult for all of these people who are entwined with 3ABN in one way or another, to have their heads permanently in the sand like ostriches.
I couldn't have put it better myself.

Bystander,

That is why this mess is going to hurt the church so bad because all those people are going to end up with mud on their shoes.

Do you really think that all those people have check out all the charges against Danny and company?

Erik

[Johann]

I don't want to be hard on ya, but this is a little unfair. Just because some of the people work at 3ABN is no reason to list the entire board of another organization--I happen to know at least two of them and I have the highest respect for their integrity. And just because the organization is housed in Thomsenvilled doesn't mean everyone their approves of 3ABN.

Just because they're in the same town doesn't mean they knew what was going on. Hasn't it been pretty clear that Danny lied to his own board chairman about his brother's alleged behavior?

On the other hand it seems to be a serious problem that this board excludes Dr. Mable Dunbar because she featured Linda Shelton while they retain the people associated with Danny Shelton. Are they not as greatly involved in a conflict of interests?

This post has been edited by Johann: Feb 27 2007, 12:21 PM

[Voktar of Zargon]

More than difficult. It would be impossible. That, in itself ,should tell you something. How long can it continue to be said that Many of the Conference leaders, the thousands of members of ASI, Garwin M, The 3abn board, everyone that goes to the 3abn church (approx 150 people), Doug B with Amazing Facts, Mark Finley, David Ashhrick, The mitcheff sisters, The Aikens, hundreds of other ministries that come to 3abn, the supporters, the ministry that you refer to in this thread, adventist pastors all over the country, Steve Darmondy, Jennifer LaMountain, Ullanda Innocence, Kay Kuzma, Dr Baldwin, Agatha Thrash, Steve Wohlberg,,and I could go on and on. How long can it continue to be said that all of these thousands of respected and intelligent people have been duped by 3abn. I guess you all can say it from now on but it is neither believable or realistic. To quote you, " it would be rather difficult for all of these people who are entwined with 3ABN in one way or another, to have their heads permanently in the sand like ostriches.
I couldn't have put it better myself.

There is one person you might want to take off your list. Johann wrote this on Marittime:

When I spoke to Mark Finlay recently he told me he had not had any real counselling periods with Linda....
Mark Finlay is also telling people now that Linda is innocent of the accusations...."
Edited by Johann (02/11/07 06:19 PM)

[erik]

On the other hand it seems to be to be a serious problem that this board excludes Dr. Mable Dunbar because she featured Linda Shelton while they retain the people associated with Danny Shelton. Are they not as greatly involved in a conflict of interests?

I know Mable Dunbar personally, i find it it hard to believe that group that worked with abused people could be tricked like this, but snares of satan are so tricky.


Erik

[SoulEspresso]

Sister mentioned in her post that Steve Nelson is an employee of Three Angels Broadcasting. I understand that he is the 3ABN webmaster.

http://thehopeofsurvivors.com/biographies/Steve_Samantha.asp

"Samantha works full-time (currently as a volunteer) for The Hope of Survivors, which is a tax-exempt 501©(3) nonprofit corporation. Steve is currently employed at Three Angels Broadcasting Network (3ABN)."

Also, in addition to Irma Murray, we should also consider the possibility that Tom Lemon knows, or should know, what transpires in Thompsonville, due to his past working relationships with Better Life TV and Danny Shelton.

Tom Lemon is now on the Minnesota Conference staff, but was previously stationed in Oregon helping Danny Shelton and the Better Life TV staff upgrade their 3ABN-affiliated stations.

http://www.betterlifetv.tv/headlines.php?feature_id=1

"Advancing this idea would require visits with Danny Shelton of 3ABN and Tom Lemon of the Oregon Conference. Appointments were made and meetings with both occurred in mid October 2005 with very favorable results."

It would be rather difficult for all of these people who are entwined with 3ABN, in one way or another, to have their heads permanently in the sand like ostriches.

I know Tom Lemon pretty well, and I can't imagine that helping someone upgrade a downlink site is the same as approving of this behind-the-scenes stuff that hadn't come to light yet.

For my own part, the heavy promoters of 3ABN in my area have a tendency to cause more obvious trouble in other ways, so when it comes to the channel, historically I haven't rocked the boat. It's basic leadership: which hill do you want to die on? A channel that has done some good for a lot of people, or problems caused by personalities at the local church?

It's different now, since I found out about this stuff. With all that's come to light recently, I have as little to do with 3ABN as I can. I would imagine that's true for a lot of church leaders.

Keep in mind that a lot of people on these boards thought very highly of the channel until this stuff started coming out, so ad hominem attacks on the board of another organization really aren't all that helpful.

Bystander,

That is why this mess is going to hurt the church so bad because all those people are going to end up with mud on their shoes.

Do you really think that all those people have check out all the charges against Danny and company?

Erik

Exactly! Anyone connected, however tenuously, is going to get a black eye.

Ultimately this extends to the whole church.

No that hasn't been proven at all. Especially when the board chairman himself, says he wasn't lied to in any way. You should be careful about calling people liars. Especially, if you do not even know the people.

Well, Bystander, I know you have to keep saying this to get your paycheck, but Danny told Walt in 2003 that the charges against Tommy were 30 years old and all cleared up.

Whether or not any of the charges are true or not, this was a manifest lie.

Techniques used by Bystander in this post:
1. Contradiction and denial. Of stuff we all already know about.

[sonshineonme]

I don't want to be hard on ya, but this is a little unfair. Just because some of the people work at 3ABN is no reason to list the entire board of another organization--I happen to know at least two of them and I have the highest respect for their integrity. And just because the organization is housed in Thomsenvilled doesn't mean everyone their approves of 3ABN.

Just because they're in the same town doesn't mean they knew what was going on. Hasn't it been pretty clear that Danny lied to his own board chairman about his brother's alleged behavior?

YES! Very good point. What will and is happening,is, each person will get information that will make them look closer. That's called getting educated! No matter how close up to it or far away from it, each person as they gain knowledge will have to wrestle with themselves over it (I hope anyway!). They will have to decide what they will do about it - turn away and ignore? Get pro-active? Truth is never something to be afraid of. Either we trust our Heavenly Father (who see's it all already) and rely on Him, or we help the evil perpetuate by doing nothing, excusing it in ways we know Jesus would NEVER do, justifying the means for the sake of the end.

DS will not be able to stop the truth from coming out in all the places it has been hid. It's just a matter of time. The clock is ticking.

[PrincessDrRe]

[Johann]

More than difficult. It would be impossible. That, in itself ,should tell you something. How long can it continue to be said that . . . hundreds of other ministries that come to 3abn, the supporters, the ministry that you refer to in this thread, adventist pastors all over the country, Steve Darmondy, Jennifer LaMountain, Ullanda Innocence, Kay Kuzma, Dr Baldwin, Agatha Thrash, Steve Wohlberg,,and I could go on and on. How long can it continue to be said that all of these thousands of respected and intelligent people have been duped by 3abn. I guess you all can say it from now on but it is neither believable or realistic. To quote you, " it would be rather difficult for all of these people who are entwined with 3ABN in one way or another, to have their heads permanently in the sand like ostriches.
I couldn't have put it better myself.

It is not difficult to make an impressive list. Just because these are still performing on 3ABN,, some of them with programs that have been recorded in the past, is that any proof that they support all the acts of 3ABN?

I have been told by more than one leader of those ministries that they are very uneasy about using 3ABN, also because they do not trust Mr. Danny Shelton, and wish they were in a position they could change to another channel. So if I was you I would be more careful about using that list. It might backfire before you know it.

This post has been edited by Johann: Feb 27 2007, 03:04 PM

[erik]

It is not difficult to make an impressive list. Just because these are still performing on 3ABN,, some of them with programs that have been recorded in the past, is that any proof that they support all the acts of 3ABN?

I have been told by more than one leader of those ministries that they are very uneasy about using 3ABN, also because they do not trust Mr. Danny Shelton, and wish they were in a position they could change to another channel. So if I was you I would be more careful about using that list. It might backfire before you know it.

johann,

when every one can see what happens to those danny no longer likes can you blame them.


erik

This post has been edited by erik: Feb 27 2007, 03:12 PM