Another newbie critical of BSDA, Handling of the 3ABN threads Options

[inga]

I found Black SDA after a google search for Linda Shelton. Why did I do that? Because my mother told me about what she knew of the events at 3ABN and how Linda's behavior and departure had broken my mother's heart. The words my mother used made me uncomfortable and my personal experience as a professional female with the egos of SDA men in authority sent me on this quest.

After I first spent an entire day reading the posts and various threads on Black SDA in August, I tried to discuss my findings with my mother. What I discovered was she has what I consider an almost "cult-like" position in support of Danny and the 3ABN board.

And I bet she's been sending money to 3ABN, right?

I'm saying that because she sounds much like my mother, and your story sounds a lot like mine. I just generally avoid the subject with my mother now, but when little snippets of conversation occur, I get the feeling that she may have some doubts ... But if I talked about it, she would still be defensive ...

And please don't let this be your only post.

[Denny]

Blind loyalty to dead and living religious leaders?
Blaming the devil when members ask uncomfortable questions?

- see 'Are we a cult' in another thread

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12014

This post has been edited by Denny: Jan 11 2007, 04:52 AM

[PeacefulBe]

Noahswife, welcome to BSDA!

You have beautifully summed up the hold that a man's televised words and personality can have over people who set aside common sense and allow it. You have also shown how surrounding himself with those who have reputations as men of integrity can strengthen this loyalty by appearing to add credence to the man.

How sad it is, if what has been presented here on BSDA is indeed true as it appears to be, that these men may unknowingly be helping to promote a scam.

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Jan 11 2007, 07:45 AM

[watchbird]

Blind loyalty to dead and living religious leaders?
Blaming the devil when members ask uncomfortable questions?

- see 'Are we a cult' in another thread

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12014

And claiming special instruction straight from God
And making it next to impossible for people to leave
And persecuting those who do
And claiming special status with God such that leadership can sin with impugnity
(... oh excuse me... they can do things which in others would be sin but not in them...)

BUT.....

While this can, IMO, rightfully be called a cult.... it is a cult that we have harbored in our midst, not realizing what it was behind the glass facade in our living rooms.... but believing the lie that it was indeed as has been claimed.... "the face of Adventism".

The really BIGGY question is... now that it has been exposed.... WHY is it that our leaders do not sever connections with it so that it can no longer claim to be an integral part of the SDA church....

Are there those that would follow this cult right out of the SDA church if leadership took that stand?

Quite possibly.

But doesn't church leadership owe it to themselves as well as to the church members to take that stand.... thus making it clear that there is a difference between the cult of 3ABN and the church of Seventh-day Adventists?

[PeacefulBe]

And claiming special instruction straight from God
And making it next to impossible for people to leave
And persecuting those who do
And claiming special status with God such that leadership can sin with impugnity
(... oh excuse me... they can do things which in others would be sin but not in them...)

BUT.....

While this can, IMO, rightfully be called a cult.... it is a cult that we have harbored in our midst, not realizing what it was behind the glass facade in our living rooms.... but believing the lie that it was indeed as has been claimed.... "the face of Adventism".

The really BIGGY question is... now that it has been exposed.... WHY is it that our leaders do not sever connections with it so that it can no longer claim to be an integral part of the SDA church.... Are there those that would follow this cult right out of the SDA church if leadership took that stand?

Quite possibly.

But doesn't church leadership owe it to themselves as well as to the church members to take that stand.... thus making it clear that there is a difference between the cult of 3ABN and the church of Seventh-day Adventists?

YES! And one must wonder why church leadership are dragging their feet. Do they not yet see the big picture?

[Clay]

YES! And one must wonder why church leadership are dragging their feet. Do they not yet see the big picture?

are you not surprised? I am not... it doesn't surprise me that they are dragging their feet.... and in the end I suspect all they will do is say that 3abn is not affiliated with the Seventh Day Adventist Church...

[watchbird]

YES! And one must wonder why church leadership are dragging their feet. Do they not yet see the big picture?

At this point it could well be that they see an even bigger picture than any one of us do.... and thus have reasons for their holding off on public action of which we are not fully aware.

And there ARE some indications that behind the scenes, there are some quiet actions that are being taken.

We doubtless need to remind ourselves occasionally of that which we noted near the beginning of this forum... that the wheels of justice grind slowly, but they do grind... and "exceeding small".

Evil may appear to be "on the throne"... but evil doers should not thereby sit comfortably upon their "throne"... for above it all the is ONE who rules over the affairs of men.... and He will not allow his name to be blackened by evil-doers who claim to be God's Anointed beyond some certain limit that only He knows. It may well be that there is still evil of which we know nothing that must be exposed before God will say "it is enough". It may be merely that there are more who need to learn the truth in a gradual way... as those do who come here to BSDA for the purpose of learning.

So we try... and learn... to wait patiently on the Lord.... each doing what "his hand finds to do" in the meantime.... so....

Carry on, all....

[Noahswife]

And I bet she's been sending money to 3ABN, right



Yes Inga, she still sends money and attends camp meetings there with her friends.


And yes, I could see her leaving the SDA church and following 3ABN if the church got involved in "outing Danny". And I do not think she would be alone. During our Tommy Shelton discussion, I commented that I had read that some of Danny's positions appeared to be more than a little pentecostal. She did not seem to think there was anything wrong with that but immediately made the comment that our local conference was taking "new age" positions and not staying with traditional SDA positions. But of course, she could not be specific.

As for facts proving this or that or what was said or not said, IT DOES NOT MATTER to my mother. All she focuses on is Linda was given counselling and she would not give up the relationship and that Linda traveled with the doctor (or so my mother continues to believe). She believes Danny's heartfelt claims that he wanted to stay in his marriage. As I stated before, she is convinced she knows these people even though she has never talked to them personally.

My skin crawled every time I saw Ted Haggard interviewed. I guarantee his evangelical followers believed they knew him. He prospered. His church grew. He boasted of being consulted by Bush and was interviewd on Sunday political talk shows. When his truth hit the news, I have no doubt many were certain he had been set up by the left in order to embarrass him. Even James Dobson after the Foley mess hit the news claimed in Dobson's first radio address to KNOW that it was all a prank by the pages. What facts did he check before telling tens of thousands not to believe what the press was reporting. I suspect most who heard him dismissed his error as meaningless or continued to see the Foley situation as another attack by the liberal media (and spent little time outraged by what Foley did and those who knew about his behavior did not do). Facts often do not matter as people cling to what they want to believe. SDAs have always been ready to defend their beliefs and in some ways, I think that is also what my mother is doing.

In response to the question as to why the men can do no wrong but the women are at fault, I would like to tell you about something that happened in the 70's at AUC.

My ex and his brother were both Theology students. About a dozen junior and senior theology students went to a conference at the expense of local SDA physicians. I think it was interdenominational and not just an SDA conference. I remember them coming home with the teaching that whatever the man did it was ok. He was the head of the household and God would honor the women if she respected that. EVEN IF IT WAS ABUSIVE!! If she held fast God would use her to make something good happen. I remember my shock and disbelief. My fellow students at that time are now the leaders of today. They might not go so far as to say they believe this but over the years we have all read and heard the stories that taught us that it was ok for a woman to suffer (and often in silence) because blessings would follow.

Also, both in the SDA world and in the real world, women turn on each other more often than not and usually for the approval of a man. It is sad but true. We do not support each other as we should. We were also taught not to question or think critically.

I just had a thought. Is there a female on the Board that is not an employee of 3ABN?

Sorry. I have once again waxed far too long.

Noahswife

Also, thanks to those who have welcomed me.

This post has been edited by Noahswife: Jan 11 2007, 11:07 AM

[Chez]

And I bet she's been sending money to 3ABN, right



Yes Inga, she still sends money and attends camp meetings there with her friends.


And yes, I could see her leaving the SDA church and following 3ABN if the church got involved in "outing Danny". And I do not think she would be alone. During our Tommy Shelton discussion, I commented that I had read that some of Danny's positions appeared to be more than a little pentecostal. She did not seem to think there was anything wrong with that but immediately made the comment that our local conference was taking "new age" positions and not staying with traditional SDA positions. But of course, she could not be specific.

As for facts proving this or that or what was said or not said, IT DOES NOT MATTER to my mother. All she focuses on is Linda was given counselling and she would not give up the relationship and that Linda traveled with the doctor (or so my mother continues to believe). She believes Danny's heartfelt claims that he wanted to stay in his marriage. As I stated before, she is convinced she knows these people even though she has never talked to them personally.

My skin crawled every time I saw Ted Haggard interviewed. I guarantee his evangelical followers believed they knew him. He prospered. His church grew. He boasted of being consulted by Bush and was interviewd on Sunday political talk shows. When his truth hit the news, I have no doubt many were certain he had been set up by the left in order to embarrass him. Even James Dobson after the Foley mess hit the news claimed in Dobson's first radio address to KNOW that it was all a prank by the pages. What facts did he check before telling tens of thousands not to believe what the press was reporting. I suspect most who heard him dismissed his error as meaningless or continued to see the Foley situation as another attack by the liberal media (and spent little time outraged by what Foley did and those who knew about his behavior did not do). Facts often do not matter as people cling to what they want to believe. SDAs have always been ready to defend their beliefs and in some ways, I think that is also what my mother is doing.

In response to the question as to why the men can do no wrong but the women are at fault, I would like to tell you about something that happened in the 70's at AUC.

My ex and his brother were both Theology students. About a dozen junior and senior theology students went to a conference at the expense of local SDA physicians. I think it was interdenominational and not just an SDA conference. I remember them coming home with the teaching that whatever the man did it was ok. He was the head of the household and God would honor the women if she respected that. EVEN IF IT WAS ABUSIVE!! If she held fast God would use her to make something good happen. I remember my shock and disbelief. My fellow students at that time are now the leaders of today. They might not go so far as to say they believe this but over the years we have all read and heard the stories that taught us that it was ok for a woman to suffer (and often in silence) because blessings would follow.

Also, both in the SDA world and in the real world, women turn on each other more often than not and usually for the approval of a man. It is sad but true. We do not support each other as we should. We were also taught not to question or think critically.

I just had a thought. Is there a female on the Board that is not an employee of 3ABN?

Sorry. I have once again waxed far too long.

Noahswife

Also, thanks to those who have welcomed me.

Welcome Noahswife! To answer your question, there is a female on the Board who does not work for 3ABN. Her name is Carmelita Troy and she is employed by the Navy. If you google her name, you will find her.

[princessdi]

Welcome Noahswife! Go head and Preach!!! You are so right! The worst comments I have heard abo ut those pastor's wives who left, was from women. I took one lady to ask for her comments. The situation to which she was speaking was that of a pastor who "confessed" to physically abusing his wife, but only because he came home a and found out she was having a affair with another women. To this day people would rather to believe her a lesbian than to believe he abused her for years on end.

Also, I don't know when you went to AU, but the SDa men did n't have to that conference to learn that mess.

In response to the question as to why the men can do no wrong but the women are at fault, I would like to tell you about something that happened in the 70's at AUC.

My ex and his brother were both Theology students. About a dozen junior and senior theology students went to a conference at the expense of local SDA physicians. I think it was interdenominational and not just an SDA conference. I remember them coming home with the teaching that whatever the man did it was ok. He was the head of the household and God would honor the women if she respected that. EVEN IF IT WAS ABUSIVE!! If she held fast God would use her to make something good happen. I remember my shock and disbelief. My fellow students at that time are now the leaders of today. They might not go so far as to say they believe this but over the years we have all read and heard the stories that taught us that it was ok for a woman to suffer (and often in silence) because blessings would follow.

Also, both in the SDA world and in the real world, women turn on each other more often than not and usually for the approval of a man. It is sad but true. We do not support each other as we should. We were also taught not to question or think critically.
I just had a thought. Is there a female on the Board that is not an employee of 3ABN?

Sorry. I have once again waxed far too long.

Noahswife

Also, thanks to those who have welcomed me.

[Noahswife]

To this day people would rather to believe her a lesbian than to believe he abused her for years on end.

My best friend at boarding academy was a pastor's kid. When her dad wanted a divorce he claimed her mother was a lesbian so he could remarry and remain a pastor. There never was proof we could find and as adults she certainly has not lead a life to indicate this. She too never remarried although he did of course. It was terrible for my friend. The church was in another conference so I never knew what people in the church knew or really thought.

Also, I don't know when you went to AU, but the SDa men did n't have to that conference to learn that mess.[/color]
[/quote]

I actually went to AUC not AU. And I agree, they did not need the conference to learn that stuff. But what shocked me was the acceptance of it by almost all of them and the women as well. I was only a freshman so I was not someone who was given a chance to respond to it but thank goodness my ex did not accept it either.

noahswife

This post has been edited by Noahswife: Jan 11 2007, 12:51 PM

[princessdi]

Ooops! Sorry for the typo! I live near PUC, so I should have known better !

Yes, it is quite shocking. Like we said sometimes the women are worse than the men.

To this day people would rather to believe her a lesbian than to believe he abused her for years on end.

My best friend at boarding academy was a pastor's kid. When her dad wanted a divorce he claimed her mother was a lesbian so he could remarry and remain a pastor. There never was proof we could find and as adults she certainly has not lead a life to indicate this. She too never remarried although he did of course. It was terrible for my friend. The church was in another conference so I never knew what people in the church knew or really thought.

Also, I don't know when you went to AU, but the SDa men did n't have to that conference to learn that mess.[/color]


I actually went to AUC not AU. And I agree, they did not need the conference to learn that stuff. But what shocked me was the acceptance of it by almost all of them and the women as well. I was only a freshman so I was not someone who was given a chance to respond to it but thank goodness my ex did not accept it either.

noahswife

[Ed White]

At this point it could well be that they see an even bigger picture than any one of us do.... and thus have reasons for their holding off on public action of which we are not fully aware.

And there ARE some indications that behind the scenes, there are some quiet actions that are being taken.

We doubtless need to remind ourselves occasionally of that which we noted near the beginning of this forum... that the wheels of justice grind slowly, but they do grind... and "exceeding small".

Evil may appear to be "on the throne"... but evil doers should not thereby sit comfortably upon their "throne"... for above it all the is ONE who rules over the affairs of men.... and He will not allow his name to be blackened by evil-doers who claim to be God's Anointed beyond some certain limit that only He knows. It may well be that there is still evil of which we know nothing that must be exposed before God will say "it is enough". It may be merely that there are more who need to learn the truth in a gradual way... as those do who come here to BSDA for the purpose of learning.

So we try... and learn... to wait patiently on the Lord.... each doing what "his hand finds to do" in the meantime.... so....

Carry on, all....

Amen to your words of concern, & you are right, heavenly justice will win out, but inspired writings have already told "that those behind the scenes" that every transaction that is not as clear as direct sunlight belongs to the prince of darkness. If they choose to discount this fact and keep shoving thing under the rug their house of cards will fall. Those 6 condition in Isaiah 33:15 must be met to escape "the everlating burnings" told about in verse 14. Read of all 6, but the first item on heavens list is to tell the truth. This is no small matter to tell the truth, especially where bible doctrine is concern, one must study to be approved of God, not what brings in money and church growth.

[Noahswife]

Welcome Noahswife! To answer your question, there is a female on the Board who does not work for 3ABN. Her name is Carmelita Troy and she is employed by the Navy. If you google her name, you will find her.

Thanks for the information. Google her I did. She is obviously an accounting expert and skilled in fraud detection so if she is doing her financial fiduciary duty that should ease the minds of some of those who have expressed concerns on that point. I would think that one with her training would have an interesting mindset and question the possibility of fraud when facts were presented. However, I do not see any other information that tells me how she would respond to this topic. However, it is possible she sees her expertise as in the financial realm and would defer to the decisions of others on more personal matters. Even her amazon reviews are on personal care items and household goods and not books. That is not meant as criticism it is just a fact I find interesting.

noahwife

[Johann]

Thanks for the information. Google her I did. She is obviously an accounting expert and skilled in fraud detection so if she is doing her financial fiduciary duty that should ease the minds of some of those who have expressed concerns on that point. I would think that one with her training would have an interesting mindset and question the possibility of fraud when facts were presented. However, I do not see any other informsation that tells me how she would respond to this topic. However, it is possible she sees her expertise as in the financial realm and would defer to the decisions of others on more personal matters. Even her amazon reviews are on personal care items and household goods and not books. That is not meant as criticism it is just a fact I find interesting.

noahwife

She might also rely on the auditors.