Another newbie critical of BSDA, Handling of the 3ABN threads Options

[Noahswife]

In follow up to some of our discussions posted above, I thought I would post the following here and on the Tommy Shelton vindicated thread.

In December Pastor Jan Paulson said the following on Time to Talk,

Another topic that Pastor Paulsen spoke strongly about was that of abuse of women and children in the church. One woman wondered if the church's theology of forgiveness keeps women in abusive homes.

She said, "Women who have been abused and who are living in violent marriages and relationships are often told by the church to forgive, forget and remain in the position where they are. How are we as a world church addressing the theology of that in a God-honoring way?"

Pastor Paulsen responded, "The worse that can happen is for the church to side with the abuser and fail to give support and comfort and strength and help to the one who is being abused. Just simply to say to 'forgive and get on with life' is simply to drive that person into a much deeper emotional problem."


This can be found at:

http://news.adventist.org/data/2006/11/116...0/index.html.en

And like some of you I ask........

What about the children in these marriages?

noahswife

[wwjd]

I’m not a SDA but years ago I had a friend who was, and left the church basically because of the judgmental attitude that she felt prevailed there. I learned of 3ABN a long time ago, began watching some of the programming, and was blessed by the loving spirit among many and was encouraged because of their efforts to mend broken people. 3ABN caused me to view Adventist in a different light – a very favorable light.
Then I was shown this web site and was told it represents the SDA church. If it does, I am deeply grieved. I’m grieved for the Shelton family whose reputation has been slandered by those from their own church affiliation---as I said, I’m not a SDA but as a born again Christian, I could never do what many have done to this family, even if everything that has been said were true. I know sinners who would never think of doing such a thing. If the spirit on this web-site has affected me so drastically, I wonder how many hundreds or even thousands of others who aren’t of your denomination but who watch 3ABN have also been affected. How many have been driven away from God or your church because of all this? I’ve prayed much about this situation and have asked God if there was anything He would have me to do—this is the answer He gave me through the night season.
WWJD? What would Jesus do? In talking to others who have put positive comments on this web-site, I’ve learned that their character too was attacked and seemed to incite fear of any further remarks. But in studying the Scriptures, I’ve found that it’s Satan’s business to put fear in God’s people to keep them from doing all that God would require of them. Jesus said “whatever you do to the least of My children you have done it unto Me.” I have no fear of what any man might choose to say of me, because I consider myself one of his least ones. He knows my heart is to love Him first, and love others as He does, and when one of his least ones is attacked, He takes it personal – and I am not alone.
Through hearing and seeing some of the material put on this web-site there’s no doubt that these evil spirited attitudes need to change. It’s the spirit of Satan who is the “accuser of the brethren”. You’ve heard it said,” Evil prevails when good men do nothing”. Christians out there, don’t you think it’s time to give your fears to God and begin to do what Jesus would do concerning this web-site of character assassinations? I ask you all, WWJD?
How did Jesus handle Satan when He came to tempt and destroy Him in His wilderness time? He said, “It is written”, and quoted Scripture to every attack. This web site will begin to get a different spirit if we will but ask ourselves what does God’s word say about handling all of these situations concerning the accused and the accusers alike? Then, don’t sit idly by and allow the devil’s work of destruction to continue without giving the spirit of Christ a chance to work through His Word. God promised that His Word would not return void, so let’s trust that promise.
I’ve wondered why the supporters of the 3ABN family haven’t responded any more than they have---possibly because, like me, they didn’t know what to do. Every answer to every situation is hidden somewhere in God’s word, much of it is very plain. I believe Jesus summed it all up when He said ,”love the Lord God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself.” There are many wise sayings in the book of Proverbs---here are a few --“Whoever despises the Word and counsel of God brings destruction upon himself”, Prov.13:13. Then in Prov. 14:15, it says, “ the simpleton (one who lacks common sense or is easily deceived) believes every word he hears.” This shows the power of the devil to deceive even the professed people of God and it appears that many are believing every thing on this web-site, just because it’s written there. That’s the mentality of a little child and the Word exhorts us to “put away childish things”.
I have seen that there are those who say they are investigating information given on this site. In all fairness, where’s the other side of the story? You know, in any disagreement or divorce there’s always two sides, at least two ways to look at the situation---doesn’t a good investigator examine all the facts from both sides? I really haven’t seen that here. I’ve only seen one side investigated here.
I’m afraid the souls of many “could be” Christians are at stake here, and no telling how much damage has already been done. May God have mercy. He loves of fairness and restoration of relationships. you, Mr/Ms Investigator, and only asks that you see what you’ve done and turn to Him and change your direction. Don’t let the devil deceive you any longer. Do you remember that the Scripture says our enemy is not flesh and blood, but principalities, powers, and rulers of darkness? Eph. 6:12. His motive is to deceive, and divide God’s church through lies about what God’s word says. Every day we all choose to believe Satan’s lies or God’s truth in His Word.
The degrading remarks that someone made about the Shelton’s father only shows how low Satan can drag us if we allow it. It’s unbelievable that anyone could allege wrong conduct about a man who I understand has been dead for over 30 years without one testimony, from anyone, to back it up. The writer admits that the statements were based on “rumor.” How sad!
I’ve appreciated all of you who have taken a stand against the devil’s trash written on this web-site, among the most recent being that written by the person called “Bystander”. Thank God for people like that who aren’t afraid to speak truth in defense of wrong doing.
To the 3ABN supporters, I would say, if you have been afraid of the devil twisting your comments, please re-consider and ask yourselves WWJD? I’m sure Jesus was pretty straight with people—He loved them, but confronted the wrong they did and was always for the under-dog. He loved and forgave the woman caught in the very act of adultery and said to her accusers, “you who have no sin, cast the first stone.” Of course, we all know how they all went slinking away. The other side of Jesus was his disgust with the holier than thou Pharisee who said, “I thank God I’m not as other men.” I believe Jesus would want fairness here on this web-site representing His name. We are told to be “wise as serpents and harmless as doves.” Anything said , should not be vindictive, but should be for the purpose web-site representing His name. We are told to be “wise as serpents and harmless as doves.” Anything said , should not be
So, I encourage every Christian out there to try the spirits of each one who writes anything on this web-site, ask yourself WWJD, then respond with Scripture to defeat the devil’s plans. Jesus died for the accused and the accuser alike---give grace to all, but confront in love. If the spirit and attitude is to tear down someone rather than restore, then guess what spirit is behind the mask?
I leave the Shelton family with this Scripture: Phil.1:6 “being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you, will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.” There’s a great day coming---may we all be ready to meet God. Each day He sets before us life or death, blessing or cursing. I’m sure He says with a broken heart, “choose life, for why will you die?”
May we all ask ourselves many times daily--- WWJD?--- WWJD?--- WWJD? Let Him use all of us to restore-- not destroy. I pray for every one of you in the SDA church who have been hurt through all of this—just keep on mending broken people as Jesus did and defeat the devil through the Word
WWJD or say if He saw the next comment on this web-site?

This post has been edited by wwjd: Jan 11 2007, 11:41 PM

[Pickle]

Actually, WWJD, if you think about it, many people out there will appreciate it that Adventists are a people that stand for something, that have principles. We don't tolerate child molestation, and we don't tolerate deceit intended to cover up child molestation allegations.

When Jesus said, "He that is without sin, let him cast the first stone," He most certainly was not contradicting Himself, because elsewhere He told His church to deal with open sin.

A retired conference official called me the other day and said that that verse is one of the most abused texts in Scripture today. Carried to its logical conclusion, the way some use it, parents could never discipline their children, teachers could never correct their students, and juries could never convict criminals.

WWJD? He would cleanse the temple, and He would denounce the Pharisees and scribes as hypocrites. Of course, He would do it with tears in His voice, but He would do it nonetheless.

[inga]

In response to the question as to why the men can do no wrong but the women are at fault, I would like to tell you about something that happened in the 70's at AUC.

My ex and his brother were both Theology students. About a dozen junior and senior theology students went to a conference at the expense of local SDA physicians. I think it was interdenominational and not just an SDA conference. I remember them coming home with the teaching that whatever the man did it was ok. He was the head of the household and God would honor the women if she respected that. EVEN IF IT WAS ABUSIVE!! If she held fast God would use her to make something good happen.

I remember reading something like that from a well-respected mainline Protestand author in approximately that time frame. It was "the teaching" of the time outside our denomination, but I had never heard of it officially within our church. But I shouldn't be surprised. Too often we have simply accepted what others taught, without thinking it through ...

Ellen White makes perfectly clear that women are not to tolerate abuse. While taking a very strong position on the sacredness and permanence of marriage, she actually counseled one woman to leave her husband because of his abusive behavior. (Tolerating abuse is actually dishonoring Christ, whose property we are.) Furthermore, she made clear that a woman's first loyalty is to be to Christ, not to her husband. And that message is directly contrary to the message in the book I referenced above (sorry I can't quite remember the author), because the author used Paul's writings to demonstrate that if the wife "obeyed" her husband -- even in not going to church, etc. -- that God would bless her and somehow make things turn out all right. That's a doctrine straight from the pit of hell, IMO, though in my youthful days I wouldn't have put it quite a strongly.

[Skyhook]

If we really want to know what would Jesus do, WWJD is the wrong question to ask. A better question would be WDJD? What DID Jesus do? As you say Pickle, he denounced the pharaisees and hypocrites and chased the the thieves from the temple. Thats what Jesus would do.

This post has been edited by Skyhook: Jan 12 2007, 12:11 AM

[inga]

WWJD? What would Jesus do? In talking to others who have put positive comments on this web-site, I’ve learned that their character too was attacked and seemed to incite fear of any further remarks. But in studying the Scriptures, I’ve found that it’s Satan’s business to put fear in God’s people to keep them from doing all that God would require of them. Jesus said “whatever you do to the least of My children you have done it unto Me.”

First of all, to the board, WWJD,

I appreciate what you are trying to do, but I'm afraid you aren't seeing the full picture and are thus not "rightly dividing the word of truth."

For one thing, you refer to "others who have put positive comments on this site" as being attacked. I'd like you to point me to such intances, because I haven't seen them myself, and I've followed the content on this board off and on for more than two years.

What I have seen are folks coming on here attacking those who posted evidence that Dan Shelton and some other members of his family are not what they appear to be on the 3ABN shows -- any more than soap opera stars are the same characters in real life as they portray on TV.

Yes, Jesus is very concerned with "the least of these." And that's precisely why these posts are appearing on this board. Dan Shelton and those associated with him have far too often abused "the least of these." They are not themselves, by any stretch, "the least of these," living rather well off the proceeds of donations to 3ABN and receiving the adulation of what often appears to be a cult-like following.

By supporting 3ABN in its activities folks are supporting abuse and character assassination of former employees, including the former VP, Linda Shelton. They are supporting the sexual abuse of children, and they are supporting a self-indulgent lifestyle by Dan and several select associates.

Jesus was not gentle with those in positions of power who abused "the least of these." He had some rather strong things to say to them. He even made a whip out of cords, and certain folks whose hearts could not stand His scrutiny fled in terror. I rather think He would do something similar at 3ABN if He should show up there tomorrow.

I'm convinced that evil prospers because good people keep silent. That's why I believe it is good for folks to speak up, rather than to keep silent.

In my own case, I have suffered my own instance of injustice. At the time I considered following through so that others would be spared what I had to go through, but I weighed the cost and decided I just wasn't strong enough. That's why I admire those (like Linda's daugher) who are willing to stand up and be counted, so that others will be spared the kind of abuse they endured.

Please re-consider how you apply the words of Jesus. Our God is a God of love and justice. He cannot be a God of love without also being a God of justice. And justice demands accountability.

[Ed White]

If we really want to know what would Jesus do, WWJD is the wrong question to ask. A better question would be WDJD? What DID Jesus do? As you say Pickle, he denounced the pharaisees and hypocrites and chased the the thieves from the temple. Thats what Jesus would do.

Amen! Skyhook, As you remember at one time that Jesus referred to the temple as His Fathers house, but there came a time he walked away from the temple never to return saying, YOUR house [it wasn’t His Fathers house anymore] is left unto you desolate. We must remember that a great body of Christ’s true followers is still to be found in the churches, which constitute Babylon due to them not knowing anything as yet about the special truths for this time. When the Latter Rain or final warning of the Revelation 18 angel swell to the Loud Cry they will take their stand with the faithful. I believe that more than a few are dissatisfied with their present condition, and are longing for clearer light. They look in vain for the image of Christ in the churches with which they are connected. As these bodies depart farther and farther from the truth, and ally themselves more closely with the world, the difference between the two classes will widen, and it will finally result in separation. The time will come when those who love God supremely can no longer remain in connection with such as are ‘lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. Read chapter 38 of the 1911 GC "Final Warning"
=========
PS I might add that probation closes first for SDA. Once the Loud Cry commences which is when the "image beast" is set up in this country it is to late in the day to be found with any besetments!

This post has been edited by Ed White: Jan 12 2007, 12:41 AM

[roxe]

If we really want to know what would Jesus do, WWJD is the wrong question to ask. A better question would be WDJD? What DID Jesus do? As you say Pickle, he denounced the pharaisees and hypocrites and chased the the thieves from the temple. Thats what Jesus would do.

i agree...

so when we gonna stop talking the talk... and start WALKING the walk

[beartrap]

WWJD, (as you put it), Have you ever considered how many of of us have been driven away from everything supposedly "christian" by 3ABN and the Shelton family? "Born again christian" are you? Born into what evil abuse against the children of the Creator? Do you believe that people should be abused, molested, and sinned against in the name of your vicious "god"? If the Sheltons represent the "god" who you worship, I promise that there are billions of us people who want nothing to do with what you call "god." Your "god" is everything that I, and the majority of humanity abhore! (been there, seen that, done that crime against humanity and God! And never again!!!) Mending broken people? Do you have any idea how many mended people have been broken by your version of "christianity"? Does that even matter to you? Does the expounding of doctrine mean more to you than the lives God's children? Do some meaningless baptisms mean more to you than the breakage of a family? Does your equinamity in religious, emotional, and social torment of the human soul mean more to you that the divine value of the human soul? Does the sexual/emotional/spiritual devastation of children mean so little to you? ...their happiness and life today and in eternity? Shame on you and everything like you!!!!

This post has been edited by beartrap: Jan 12 2007, 11:08 AM

[ex3ABNemployee]

WWJD, (as you put it), Have you ever considered how many of of us have been driven away from everything supposedly "christian" by 3ABN and the Shelton family? "Born again christian" are you? Born into what evil abuse against the children of the Creator? Do you believe that people should be abused, molested, and sinned against in the name of your "god"? If the Sheltons represent the "god" who you worship, I promise that there are billions of us people who want nothing to do with what you call "god." Your "god" is everything that I, and the majority of humanity abhore! (been there, seen that, done that crime against humanity and God! And never again!!!) Mending broken people? Do you have any idea how many mended people have been broken by your version of "christianity"? Does that even matter to you? Does the expounding of doctrine mean more to you than the lives God's children? Do some meaningless baptisms mean more to you than the breakage of a family? Does your equinamity in religious, emotional, and social torment of the human soul mean more to you that the divine value of the human soul? Does the sexual/emotional/spiritual devastation of children mean more to you than their happiness and life today and in eternity?

Great post, beartrap. Thanks.

[Freedom]

In follow up to some of our discussions posted above, I thought I would post the following here and on the Tommy Shelton vindicated thread.

In December Pastor Jan Paulson said the following on Time to Talk,

Another topic that Pastor Paulsen spoke strongly about was that of abuse of women and children in the church. One woman wondered if the church's theology of forgiveness keeps women in abusive homes.

She said, "Women who have been abused and who are living in violent marriages and relationships are often told by the church to forgive, forget and remain in the position where they are. How are we as a world church addressing the theology of that in a God-honoring way?"

Pastor Paulsen responded, "The worse that can happen is for the church to side with the abuser and fail to give support and comfort and strength and help to the one who is being abused. Just simply to say to 'forgive and get on with life' is simply to drive that person into a much deeper emotional problem."


This can be found at:

http://news.adventist.org/data/2006/11/116...0/index.html.en

And like some of you I ask........

What about the children in these marriages?

noahswife

Some of those children leave the sda church because of how the "church" and Pastors support the abusers.

Personally, I didn't find the "church" supportive while reporting abusive behaviour and trying to leave the abusive situation. A person goes through enough without the "church" adding more emotional pain.

The "broken" should be able to reach out to the church for comfort and support.
Another issue that the churchs and GC need to address is the transferring of church memberships after a person leaves an abusive marriage. The way the system is set up, it is easy for the abuser to find out what church the membership was transferred to.

The church has a long ways to go with addressing this issue, as well as addressing child molestors.
The church does have policies in place regarding child molestors in our churches. However, some as we know chose not to adhere to these policies!

[daylily]

Beartrap, wow you have some strong feelings there. You've been through a lot with that family, haven't you? I am so sorry. I pray that God will shower you with His love and give you peace.

[PeacefulBe]

wwjd,

Welcome to BSDA.

I have thoroughly read your post from last night and have a few questions.

When you complained about what you feel was “being done” to the Shelton family, you said:

even if everything that has been said were true

Let’s take, for example, the allegations against Tommy Shelton.

1. If everything were true, what would you do to heal Tommy’s alleged victims and make certain that no more young boys and men would become alleged victims?
2. If everything were true, how would you explain to the viewing world the secrecy, the threats of legal action against the alleged victims by Tommy’s brother and his 3abn lawyer, and the cover-ups for decades of the alleged abuse by members of the Shelton family? This Shelton family who put on the appearance of being God’s messengers.


In Matthew 18: 6 Jesus says:

“But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”

When a pastor abuses the trust of his young flock by allegedly molesting them, their spiritual lives often suffer to the point of turning away from God. Their lives suffer from the effects of the abuse.

So, wwjd, what do you suppose Jesus would do?

[Lee]

WWJD: Thanks so much for your post! I hope you will not judge all SDA's by this forum. I really appreciated what you had to say on here and I know you will be attacked for it, in spite of the fact that you are not an SDA.

I want to encourage you to keep studying and reading your Bible and to check out other SDA websites that you will find more interested in learning truth rather than discussing rumors and scandals.

[Clay]

WWJD: Thanks so much for your post! I hope you will not judge all SDA's by this forum. I really appreciated what you had to say on here and I know you will be attacked for it, in spite of the fact that you are not an SDA.

I want to encourage you to keep studying and reading your Bible and to check out other SDA websites that you will find more interested in learning truth rather than discussing rumors and scandals.

Lee your response is "typical" adventist.... lets not talk about it, lets hope it goes away, nobody could really do all those things.... and it is the response that those who perpetrate abuse love.... because it allows them to continue to victimize people....