Another newbie critical of BSDA, Handling of the 3ABN threads Options

[PeacefulBe]

Family,

I am not going to be a sticker on the identify thing. It can be an entertaining exercise to play the guessing game. Want I don’t want are folks badgering someone to identify themselves; we should respect one another’s privacy.

That's good to know, Calvin. Yes, it can be fun to play the guessing game - especially when there are clues galore(just wish I knew how folks check IPs but that kind of thing is waaay out of my cyber league). I totally agree with you on the badgering. It's petty and annoying, although sometimes amusing, and folks do deserve whatever privacy level they desire.

[inga]

When I read Bystander's posts, I see quite a few phrases that I rememeber reading in posted emails by Danny Shelton like, "you people", "swallowed..hook, line, and sinker".

Now that you mention it, the overall style, typos & misspellings included, is a lot like Dan Shelton's. He never says anything of substance regarding the actual situation, but always attacks those who aren't on his side. The one thing missing in Bystander's posts was frequent reminders of how much good 3ABN is doing. That's what makes me think that Bystander isn't Dan himself.

[Pickle]

Yes, that's good to know.

Regarding IPs, I've been wondering about Fallible. You know, he claims to be from Florida. At least that's the impression I've gotten. Yet he seems to be a lot closer to 3ABN than Florida Hospital.

Maybe he was just in ****** or ****** for business or something.

This post has been edited by Pickle: Jan 8 2007, 02:42 PM

[husbandoftheyear]

Now that you mention it, the overall style, typos & misspellings included, is a lot like Dan Shelton's. He never says anything of substance regarding the actual situation, but always attacks those who aren't on his side. The one thing missing in Bystander's posts was frequent reminders of how much good 3ABN is doing. That's what makes me think that Bystander isn't Dan himself.

Newcomers like FHB and Bystander represent a group of people who take the "holier-than-though" attitude where they come in with guns blazing telling everyone that it's a shame and a huge sin to post on the board and all the while they are burning up the internet hours themselves. Go figure...

[Clay]

Yes, that's good to know.

Regarding IPs, I've been wondering about Fallible. You know, he claims to be from Florida. At least that's the impression I've gotten. Yet he seems to be a lot closer to 3ABN than Florida Hospital.

Maybe he was just in ******** or ******** for business or something.

don't trouble yourself with all the who's who... just deal with the issues.... don't become sidetracked, its not that important........ as far as I am concerned I hope that the primary players do visit in various personas.... maybe they will learn something.... if not, no biggie....

[watchbird]

Now that you mention it, the overall style, typos & misspellings included, is a lot like Dan Shelton's. He never says anything of substance regarding the actual situation, but always attacks those who aren't on his side. The one thing missing in Bystander's posts was frequent reminders of how much good 3ABN is doing. That's what makes me think that Bystander isn't Dan himself.

It's the tone of voice and attitude... especially toward right and wrong.... that are the key things. Refresh your memory of how Dan sounds on TV if it's been a while since you have heard him. Then do a reread.... "The voice of Jacob" comes through loud and clear, no matter the absence of some of his habitual subject matter.

[calvin]

Yes, that's good to know.

Regarding IPs, I've been wondering about Fallible. You know, he claims to be from Florida. At least that's the impression I've gotten. Yet he seems to be a lot closer to 3ABN than Florida Hospital.

Maybe he was just in ******* or ********* for business or something.

For me to reveal the IP addresses a member uses would be a violation of my privacy policy. You are going to have to guess with the information the member provides you.

[Pickle]

For me to reveal the IP addresses a member uses would be a violation of my privacy policy. You are going to have to guess with the information the member provides you.

Of course. No problem. It's just been something I've wondered about.

And good point, Clay.

[Aunt B]

Bystander,
I will share with you why I have chosen to follow this topic for about a year now.

The reason is about three years ago my local church( of which i am an Elder) decided to put a AD in our local paper that we would give anyone how asked a free 3abn dish, all they had to do was agree to watch it.

So then i am sure you can understand that when a bout a year later the divorce popped up.

Then I Started hear rumblings that Maybe Linda was not the big cheat that she was made out to be, so i decide for the sake of the dishes we had placed in to non SDA homes. With the totally trust that God would fairly represented to those people, that i had better find out what was going in case i got questions from the people that watched those dishes.

So it is true i have no personal connection to the 3abn saga, but i do have a personal connection to those dishes we has a church placed out in to our town in good faith.

Just thought you might want to see were I am coming from on this. Because i personal dread the day when i find out this 3abn mess is on the 24 hour cable news circuit, and the phone calls i am going to get from so good people when that happens, and i firmly believe that is were this is headed if we as the greater body the SDA church do find out quickly the whole truth and nothing but the truth on this topic.

Erik

Hi Erik,

It is good to hear your personal testimony. Like you I have been here on lurk mode for many months. Although I registered awhile ago, I don't say much. I probably would have jumped into this thread yesterday when all the heat was on, but i just didn't have the time to sit down and read it all. Funny how the rantings of Bystander seem to be a case of the pot calling the kettle black...

I don't know Danny or Linda, and was never big on watching 3abn, but when the story was breaking about Linda, I just felt that it couldn't be the whole story. Wanting to know more, I went looking on the web, since I didn't know anyone personally to talk to.

I suppose that when I first found BSDA and all that was being said here I felt emotions similar to those expressed by others. The thing I would say to Bystander is that most people don't come here to gossip (if indeed that is what any of us are doing) but rather are here out of concern for the situation and those personally involved. Like Erik, I am concerned for the people who have come into the church because of 3abn. My home church in Green Bay has many members who have come in because of 3abn. I wonder how my church will be affected when whatever happens, happens... Rather than being morbid curriosity about Danny and Linda's divorce, it is about deep concern for all of us. All of us because we are all part of the body, and when one member hurts, we all hurt.

I don't see the interest in these threads as being "against" Danny, though some may feel that way. I see the passion for balance and fairness, which has not come from the 3abn camp. Actually the most loving thing one can do for Danny and company, if even only some of these allegations are true, is to expose them. People who think they have covered their sins feel no need of repentance. It is when confronted with one's sin, that the honest person confesses and repents. To all of those who keep trumpeting that Linda was wrong in some way too, I say this isn't about who was wrong and who was right. Obviously all have sinned. This is about who has been sorry for whatever they have done wrong, and has turned back to Jesus. It is not judging to observe the fruits in the lives of others.

Well, this has gotten quite lengthy for my first post in a controversial topic. I just want to say thank you to those of you who are investigating and posting. Not all of us are hanging on your every word to fault find.

Aunt B

[PeacefulBe]

Hi Erik,

It is good to hear your personal testimony. Like you I have been here on lurk mode for many months. Although I registered awhile ago, I don't say much. I probably would have jumped into this thread yesterday when all the heat was on, but i just didn't have the time to sit down and read it all. Funny how the rantings of Bystander seem to be a case of the pot calling the kettle black...

I don't know Danny or Linda, and was never big on watching 3abn, but when the story was breaking about Linda, I just felt that it couldn't be the whole story. Wanting to know more, I went looking on the web, since I didn't know anyone personally to talk to.

I suppose that when I first found BSDA and all that was being said here I felt emotions similar to those expressed by others. The thing I would say to Bystander is that most people don't come here to gossip (if indeed that is what any of us are doing) but rather are here out of concern for the situation and those personally involved. Like Erik, I am concerned for the people who have come into the church because of 3abn. My home church in Green Bay has many members who have come in because of 3abn. I wonder how my church will be affected when whatever happens, happens... Rather than being morbid curriosity about Danny and Linda's divorce, it is about deep concern for all of us. All of us because we are all part of the body, and when one member hurts, we all hurt.

I don't see the interest in these threads as being "against" Danny, though some may feel that way. I see the passion for balance and fairness, which has not come from the 3abn camp. Actually the most loving thing one can do for Danny and company, if even only some of these allegations are true, is to expose them. People who think they have covered their sins feel no need of repentance. It is when confronted with one's sin, that the honest person confesses and repents. To all of those who keep trumpeting that Linda was wrong in some way too, I say this isn't about who was wrong and who was right. Obviously all have sinned. This is about who has been sorry for whatever they have done wrong, and has turned back to Jesus. It is not judging to observe the fruits in the lives of others.

Well, this has gotten quite lengthy for my first post in a controversial topic. I just want to say thank you to those of you who are investigating and posting. Not all of us are hanging on your every word to fault find.

Aunt B

Aunt B. I'm so thankful that you have decided to come out of lurk mode and post! What a clear, intelligent and tenderhearted perspective you have shared. Bless you!

PB

[PrincessDrRe]

Re: "Who said someone's child was Raped? This Pickle person or Gailon somebody? You have made up your minds with absolutely no evidence of any kind. The very fact that you could make the statement that "somebody's child was raped" and make it as fact says it all about the influence that a few unimportant people have had on this site."

Let us talk about rape for a minute, and what that means under the law--rape is a legal term, which indicates a violation of the law.
1) In general terms, rape ocurs when a comptetent adult says "no" and the other person continues the sexual contact. The specifics of this will vary from place to place, and be prescribed by the governing law. Penetration may or may not be required. The age established for consent may vary. There may be differing factors in regard to competency. But, the above is a general statement.

2) Statutory rape simply means that the law has established specific bounds that make an act criminal. In other words, no other conditions justify the act. If the specifics of the law are met, then the criminal act of statutory rape has occured. If a person involved in a sexual act, has not reached the age of consent, and the specifics of the law on statutory rape are met, the act is criminal. A minor child, for example, can not consent to participation in certain sexual acts. Neither can a person who is incompetent, even if over the age of consent. Again, statutory rape is defined by local governming law. That law will differ from place to place. The age of consent may differ. In fact, the age of consent may depend upon the age of the one accused of violating the law. The specifics of the sexual contact may differ. So also may issues of competency.

I am speaking in general terms. I am not referencing anyone who may have been accused of rape. But, I want to make it clear: Children cannot consent to sexual contact. Sexual contact, as defined under any law relating to statutory rape is a crime. Penetration may or may not be required. Orgasm is likely not a requirement. Ejaculation is likely not a requirement.

Whether it is consensual or not matters not for the true "definition" of a child.

If an adult has sex with a child - per the age of "consent" in that state - it's the rape of a child. The term "Sexual Molestation" is the technical term for sexual relations w/ a minor. Even if the "child" is of legal consent (I believe 12-13 in Louisiana) COME ON PEOPLE! WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO CALL IT "RAPE" IF THE MAN HAD SEX WITH YOUR 13 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER AND HE WAS 36?

Adults are coming forward and admitting to Tommy Shelton having sexual relationships with them as children. Regardless if they were 12, 13, 16, or 8 - morally speaking it is sexual assault/rape of a child/sexual molestation. Now legally speaking he may be covered if the CHILD was of the "age of consent" - however I am still pondering and wondering....

"How many of you proponents/opponents would allow Tommy Shelton to babysit your children/grandchildren/nieces & nephews?"

[inga]

Actually the most loving thing one can do for Danny and company, if even only some of these allegations are true, is to expose them. People who think they have covered their sins feel no need of repentance. It is when confronted with one's sin, that the honest person confesses and repents. To all of those who keep trumpeting that Linda was wrong in some way too, I say this isn't about who was wrong and who was right. Obviously all have sinned. This is about who has been sorry for whatever they have done wrong, and has turned back to Jesus.

Aunt B

Thank you Aunt B for saying it like it is!

[Noahswife]

I found Black SDA after a google search for Linda Shelton. Why did I do that? Because my mother told me about what she knew of the events at 3ABN and how Linda's behavior and departure had broken my mother's heart. The words my mother used made me uncomfortable and my personal experience as a professional female with the egos of SDA men in authority sent me on this quest.

After I first spent an entire day reading the posts and various threads on Black SDA in August, I tried to discuss my findings with my mother. What I discovered was she has what I consider an almost "cult-like" position in support of Danny and the 3ABN board. I sent her to this site to read for herself some of the things being discussed. That might have been a mistake but I do not think we could have had a discussion if I did not provide the source of my information. Her response at that time was one of horror to the things being said. Her reaction was not that different than that of Bystander.

I learned very quickly that there is absolutely nothing that will EVER convince my mother that Danny Shelton has done anything wrong. It is impossible to have a rationale conversation about this subject. After all, she KNOWS Danny and Dr. Thompson. When I try to point out that people think they know TV personalities like Rush Limbaugh and Howard Stern, they do not. She insists this is different.

I am not going to review the numerous bits and pieces of what has been discussed. Let me just say that when I read that Linda was presented with a contract that said she would be denied reasonable (or any) support if she did not sign without the benefit of seeking legal counsel, I wanted to howl in outrage. If those who gave her this option (the Board or with the Board's approval) felt the agreement was reasonable and fair to Linda, why not let it face the scrutiny of someone who was legally trained and thinking of Linda's interests? This was the first MAJOR red herring for me that immediately made me wonder what was going on at 3ABN.

I have seen a Navy Admiral believe that his meritorious 26 years of service would protect him from false accusations and it did not. I have no doubt Linda was just as naive.

I have come back to the board 4 or 5 times since August to update but never have again discussed things with my mother due to her over reaction the last time. However, I decided the other day after reading of the Tommy Shelton accusations and retirement and the ASI announcement, that I would try to talk to her again.

She is totally unwilling to keep an open mind as to the events at 3ABN. Letters from victims cannot be true. Letters from churches cannot be true. She does not care how much money Danny has made from the sale of his book. She does not care how young Danny's new wife is as he needed someone to help him and who are we to judge who God led him to. How can the Board be wrong if Wintley Phipps that I respect so much (he sang at AUC on sabbath when I attended in the 70s and he was at Julliard) in on the board. She insists that Linda was counseled and would not give up "her relationship" so as far as my mother is concerned that is enough to have Linda removed as it risked the work 3ABN was doing. As far as my mother is concerned, it is all an attack of the devil. If in fact, allegations are proven with facts that Danny was wrong or unethical in things he did or said, my mother will see it as a plot by the church "to get their hands on 3ABN to make up for their own failure to spread the gospel".

I have just read these new posts by and in reaction to Bystander's posts. They have prompted me also to post for the first time. My mother loves her church and believes the second coming is very near. I hate it that she is willing to see a woman cannibalized than even entertain the idea that Danny might have done something unethical.

My personality I think is like that of a couple others here. I have to follow things until the truth is known and especially where it appears to me injustice has been done. And I have to admit, especially if the injustice has been done to a woman who was probably pretty naive. Is any of this my business? No, of course not. I do not watch 3ABN but I did buy my parents their skyangel disc.

I would like to know what the Board knew before they took the actions that they did. I would love to see Linda do an interview if she is able to do so now. But, I also realize that there are so many things (like young earth theory vs. the findings of the Human Genome project as discussed in the book The Language of God) that I have questions about that I will never know the answers to. I have come to trust in God and accept that I do not have to know.

I was and still am thankful that this forum is here. It gets a little heated at times and sometimes because posts often don't come out sounding like people intend and words are misconstrued. This happens to me in emails to people no matter how hard I try. So thanks for letting me have my say.

Noahswife........

And yes, one more thing. My father-in-law was an SDA who molested his adopted daughters who were much younger than my now ex-husband. A few years after his conviction (with no jail time I might add as this happened in the early 90s), one of my sister-in-laws talked to me about the fact one of the girls was saying he was once again involved with another one of the adopted sisters (who was now no longer a minor). I could not get my husband to talk to him nor any of his brothers (one who was a SDA ordained minister and another who is a lay pastor now). I would bet that SDA men talking about this topic ......DON'T unless forced to. I would bet there is as much denial in the SDA leadership ranks as there was in the Catholic Church. So, I am not surprised that Dr. Thompson did not pursue checking the allegations out. Are you?

This post has been edited by Noahswife: Jan 11 2007, 09:52 AM

[Pickle]

Yes, I am very surprised, after all the counsel we have, and after all the scary things Risk Management tells conference officials and pastors. yes, I am very surprised.

"His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber" (Is. 56:10).

Dr. Thompson and each board member are watchman on the walls. If they can't stay awake, if they are that tired, they need to let someone else take their place.


So your mother has a hard time even believing Walt Thompson when he admits that Danny essentially lied to him about the allegations being 30 years old?

Whether the Dryden letter is true or not, it still testifies to the fact that there were allegations as recent as 3 years at the time.

And does she believe Danny Shelton when he testifies against himself by claiming that his name was on the auto title when it never has been? Or does she think that the lending bank sent me a fraudulent title?

I know, it's tough. I recognize that this is what we face. But why? Do people have the same kind of blind loyalty to our church leaders? If not, why the difference?

[princessdi]

I think her mother's reaction is the blind loyalty to the church. No man that would be in leadership would don anything wrong, according to them. Listen to her words. Whintely Phipps would not be involved if all that was going on. It is far easier fopr them to believe that lInda did something wrong that it is for them to believe a mand in leadership is doing wrong.

I know this, because I have seen it several times over. Women who leave abusive pastor/elder husbands, etc. She is always the bad "guy". Her reputation sacrificed for his career. Everything will be alright if she will just keep moving around with him when he cheats on her and it comes out in public. However, the minute she gets tired and divorces him, his cheating and/or abuse was her fault. The reason Danny got away with what he did to Linda is because it is business as usual.

Yes, I am very surprised, after all the counsel we have, and after all the scary things Risk Management tells conference officials and pastors. yes, I am very surprised.

"His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber" (Is. 56:10).

Dr. Thompson and each board member are watchman on the walls. If they can't stay awake, if they are that tired, they need to let someone else take their place.
So your mother has a hard time even believing Walt Thompson when he admits that Danny essentially lied to him about the allegations being 30 years old?

Whether the Dryden letter is true or not, it still testifies to the fact that there were allegations as recent as 3 years at the time.

And does she believe Danny Shelton when he testifies against himself by claiming that his name was on the auto title when it never has been? Or does she think that the lending bank sent me a fraudulent title?

I know, it's tough. I recognize that this is what we face. But why? Do people have the same kind of blind loyalty to our church leaders? If not, why the difference?