Another newbie critical of BSDA, Handling of the 3ABN threads Options

[Richard Sherwin]

Clay and PrincessDrRe I agree with both of your sentiments on this lynching issue. There are places that should not be approached even in jest or in trying to make a point.

Richard

[Kaiser Schlabotn...]

Jesus said...

If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you (alone, in private).

How is that the folks around here think the above counsel does not apply to them?

Is it to the glory of God that this dirty laundry is being aired out in public for the whole world to see?

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you.

If your railing accusations are true, how many of you have really prayed for Danny?

KS

[redheadbeauty73]

Jesus said...

If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you (alone, in private).

How is that the folks around here think the above counsel does not apply to them?

Is it to the glory of God that this dirty laundry is being aired out in public for the whole world to see?

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you.

If your railing accusations are true, how many of you have really prayed for Danny?

KS

I do know that scripture, BUT, what about this one in 1 Corinthians 5? I posted this earlier, guess you didnt see this....

1-2I also received a report of scandalous sex within your church family, a kind that wouldn't be tolerated even outside the church: One of your men is sleeping with his stepmother. And you're so above it all that it doesn't even faze you! Shouldn't this break your hearts? Shouldn't it bring you to your knees in tears? Shouldn't this person and his conduct be confronted and dealt with?

3-5I'll tell you what I would do. Even though I'm not there in person, consider me right there with you, because I can fully see what's going on. I'm telling you that this is wrong. You must not simply look the other way and hope it goes away on its own. Bring it out in the open and deal with it in the authority of Jesus our Master. Assemble the community—I'll be present in spirit with you and our Master Jesus will be present in power. Hold this man's conduct up to public scrutiny. Let him defend it if he can! But if he can't, then out with him! It will be totally devastating to him, of course, and embarrassing to you. But better devastation and embarrassment than damnation. You want him on his feet and forgiven before the Master on the Day of Judgment.

I hope you will consider this text as well before judging what alot of people are trying to accomplish here which is trying to save the message of God from being ministered by men who have fallen from God! Bless you!

This post has been edited by redheadbeauty73: Jan 12 2007, 11:55 PM

[erik]

Jesus said...

If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you (alone, in private).

How is that the folks around here think the above counsel does not apply to them?

Is it to the glory of God that this dirty laundry is being aired out in public for the whole world to see?

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you.

If your railing accusations are true, how many of you have really prayed for Danny?

KS

KS

If the dirty laundry is held in the private parts of the church(where ever that is) How does that bring Glory and Honor to God, by making it easier a man to prey up young children, if i remember right there is a text about not keeping the small ones away from Christ.

Also how does bring honor to God when "Good" Christians seem more concerned about following rules then taking care of Kids?

ERik

[redheadbeauty73]

KS

If the dirty laundry is held in the private parts of the church(where ever that is) How does that bring Glory and Honor to God, by making it easier a man to prey up young children, if i remember right there is a text about not keeping the small ones away from Christ.

Also how does bring honor to God when "Good" Christians seem more concerned about following rules then taking care of Kids?

ERik

Good point too Erik. Thank you

[Grace]

I do know that scripture, BUT, what about this one in 1 Corinthians 5? I posted this earlier, guess you didnt see this....

1-2I also received a report of scandalous sex within your church family, a kind that wouldn't be tolerated even outside the church: One of your men is sleeping with his stepmother. And you're so above it all that it doesn't even faze you! Shouldn't this break your hearts? Shouldn't it bring you to your knees in tears? Shouldn't this person and his conduct be confronted and dealt with?

3-5I'll tell you what I would do. Even though I'm not there in person, consider me right there with you, because I can fully see what's going on. I'm telling you that this is wrong. You must not simply look the other way and hope it goes away on its own. Bring it out in the open and deal with it in the authority of Jesus our Master. Assemble the community—I'll be present in spirit with you and our Master Jesus will be present in power. Hold this man's conduct up to public scrutiny. Let him defend it if he can! But if he can't, then out with him! It will be totally devastating to him, of course, and embarrassing to you. But better devastation and embarrassment than damnation. You want him on his feet and forgiven before the Master on the Day of Judgment.

I hope you will consider this text as well before judging what alot of people are trying to accomplish here which is trying to save the message of God from being ministered by men who have fallen from God! Bless you!

KS, that's my opinion too. And yes, I've prayed a lot for Danny.

Blessings!

[Pickle]

Jesus said...

If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you (alone, in private).

Mat. 18 does not apply to public sins.

[Kaiser Schlabotn...]

I do know that scripture, BUT, what about this one in 1 Corinthians 5? I posted this earlier, guess you didnt see this....

1-2I also received a report of scandalous sex within your church family, a kind that wouldn't be tolerated even outside the church: One of your men is sleeping with his stepmother. And you're so above it all that it doesn't even faze you! Shouldn't this break your hearts? Shouldn't it bring you to your knees in tears? Shouldn't this person and his conduct be confronted and dealt with?

3-5I'll tell you what I would do. Even though I'm not there in person, consider me right there with you, because I can fully see what's going on. I'm telling you that this is wrong. You must not simply look the other way and hope it goes away on its own. Bring it out in the open and deal with it in the authority of Jesus our Master. Assemble the community—I'll be present in spirit with you and our Master Jesus will be present in power. Hold this man's conduct up to public scrutiny. Let him defend it if he can! But if he can't, then out with him! It will be totally devastating to him, of course, and embarrassing to you. But better devastation and embarrassment than damnation. You want him on his feet and forgiven before the Master on the Day of Judgment.

I hope you will consider this text as well before judging what alot of people are trying to accomplish here which is trying to save the message of God from being ministered by men who have fallen from God! Bless you!

The problem at Corinth stayed at Corinth. Paul did not mention of it to any of the other churches, nor did he solicit the involvement of the 12 apostles in Jerusalem. This was not a matter of concern for anyone except for those immediately involved.

You claim that you are "trying to save the message of God from being ministered by men who have fallen from God!" Well consider this…

Even though God had rejected Saul and David was anointed king, David in no wise took it upon himself to speak a word against Saul. Instead he patiently followed God's will and demonstrated love towards Saul while he waited for God to work things out in God’s own way and time. And after David had become king and sinned a great sin, it was still God's will that David should remain king. In either case, it wasn’t for the people of Israel to speak up against God’s chosen servants.

Like it or not Danny is the head of 3ABN and will remain as such until God removes him. The work Danny is doing through 3ABN is constructive to the building up of the church. On the other hand, it's impossible for the church to be edified by the gossip going on here.

[Pickle]

If the problem stayed at Corinth, how'd we find out about it? And are you suggesting that the house of Chloe was wrong in "gossiping" and telling Paul about the serious problems that they saw going on?

Since when is Danny's recent threatening of the Dunn Loring congregation with a lawsuit over the new allegations of child molestation against Tommy Shelton supposed to be building up the work of the church?

And by asking that we wait for God to remove Danny, are you by saying this suggesting that you want God to remove him without any human participation at all? If so, would not that be rather unkind and uncharitable, considering how God has done that kind of thing in the past?

[inga]

The problem at Corinth stayed at Corinth. Paul did not mention of it to any of the other churches, nor did he solicit the involvement of the 12 apostles in Jerusalem. This was not a matter of concern for anyone except for those immediately involved.

Most interesting comment. So, are your writing from Corinth?

Even though God had rejected Saul and David was anointed king, David in no wise took it upon himself to speak a word against Saul. Instead he patiently followed God's will and demonstrated love towards Saul while he waited for God to work things out in God’s own way and time. And after David had become king and sinned a great sin, it was still God's will that David should remain king.

It seems to me that you are making some huge assumptions not supported by the facts:

You assume that God chose and anointed Dan Shelton as a kind of king or leader like Saul or David.
The fact is that Dan Shelton is not even a chosen leader within the Adventist church. He is not a minister, let a lone a "king" with a larger "kingdom." He and his supporters claim that he has been chosen and anointed.

The evidence indicates that Dan Shelton runs 3ABN like his private business, not that God "anointed" him!!

I rather think that Christ's warning against false Christs can be extended to cover the likes of Dan Shelton who use the truth of God for their own profit.

Or would you say that we should not believe those who claim they are Christ but should believe those who claim they are prophets or "anointed"?

In either case, it wasn’t for the people of Israel to speak up against God’s chosen servants.

Like it or not Danny is the head of 3ABN and will remain as such until God removes him.

Again, you are assuming some kind of divine appointment for Dan, with which I disagree. You are also assuming that we, as the body of Christ, have no responsibility for those in our midst who bring disgrace on His name.

The counsel to Paul to the Corinthians does not support your assumption. But then, I suppose you may be excused, since your Bible doesn't contain that letter -- seeing you claim that the matter was kept under wraps at Corinth.

We're clearly not reading from the same Bible!!

The work Danny is doing through 3ABN is constructive to the building up of the church.

You are again making assumptions. You appear to credit Dan with the good results from the programs aired over the 3ABN network. Are you also willing to credit other networks with doing the work of God when they air some Adventist programming?

Frankly, I think that the work of Danny is destructive to the church. The greater one's profession of godliness, the greater is the damage done when that person betrays Christ. Sinning in the name of God does not transform sin into righteousness. We're not dealing with minor "private" sins here. We're dealing with major betrayal of trust and major abuse of persons who once worked for 3ABN. Linda is not the only one and perhaps not the one who has suffered the most. Her situation just got more publicity. (It is also evident that not a few of those baptized through 3ABN-sponsored events are joining the 3ABN/aka Dan Shelton church, rather than the Adventist church, sending their tithes and offerings to 3ABN, rather than contributing to any flesh-and-blood local church.)

I don't accept your assumptions, thus I can't accept your conclusions.

And I suspect that the same is true for many others on this board.

This post has been edited by inga: Jan 14 2007, 06:08 PM

[PrincessDrRe]

Jesus said...

If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you (alone, in private).

How is that the folks around here think the above counsel does not apply to them?

Is it to the glory of God that this dirty laundry is being aired out in public for the whole world to see?

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you.

If your railing accusations are true, how many of you have really prayed for Danny?

KS

I have prayed for Danny. Can't lie....I have also prayed for his "family" (new wife/old wife), his "family" (the Molestor), and the VICTIMS. Have you prayed for them?

KS

If the dirty laundry is held in the private parts of the church(where ever that is) How does that bring Glory and Honor to God, by making it easier a man to prey up young children, if i remember right there is a text about not keeping the small ones away from Christ.

Also how does bring honor to God when "Good" Christians seem more concerned about following rules then taking care of Kids?

I agree Erik. Folks are bent on "protecting and doing right" by those that victimize CHILDREN.

....Like it or not Danny is the head of 3ABN and will remain as such until God removes him. The work Danny is doing through 3ABN is constructive to the building up of the church. On the other hand, it's impossible for the church to be edified by the gossip going on here.

"With men it's impossible - but with GOD all things are possible...."

Besides. If a VICTIM reads these threads, realizes they are not alone, and gains strength - THAT DOES EDIFY the CHURCH and the WORD OF GOD - *(Be sure you sins will find you out!)* Not claiming that I don't have any sins... (would you?)

However....

HAVE YOU EVER MOLESTED A CHILD? HAVE YOU EVER BEEN MOLESTED? Many of us here have shared our experiences with Molestors (being molested/knowing molestors in the church/having family members that have been molested) and for you to say that warning someone of possible danger of a SEXUAL PREDATOR is not edifying THE CHURCH? What about GOD BEING PLEASED THAT SOMEONE PROTECTED A CHILD?

WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN???

This post has been edited by PrincessDrRe: Jan 14 2007, 07:09 PM

[plumfan]

Like it or not Danny is the head of 3ABN and will remain as such until God removes him. The work Danny is doing through 3ABN is constructive to the building up of the church. On the other hand, it's impossible for the church to be edified by the gossip going on here.

Ahhh, my first post. I will try not to be too stupid... but can you show me where God has corrected the Mormons, Catholics or the Jehovah Witnesses? Or does God only correct Adventists?

Don't you think all supposed gossip transpiring could just evaporate away if the 3ABN people who are in responsible positions would be merely clear and transparent instead of twisting this way, subterfuge, and lying that way? Can this be of God?

[PrincessDrRe]

Ahhh, my first post. I will try not to be too stupid... but can you show me where God has corrected the Mormons, Catholics or the Jehovah Witnesses? Or does God only correct Adventists?

Don't you think all supposed gossip transpiring could just evaporate away if the 3ABN people who are in responsible positions would be merely clear and transparent instead of twisting this way, subterfuge, and lying that way? Can this be of God?

Welcome Plumfan and you put it down right there....

[Johann]

The problem at Corinth stayed at Corinth. Paul did not mention of it to any of the other churches, nor did he solicit the involvement of the 12 apostles in Jerusalem. This was not a matter of concern for anyone except for those immediately involved.
----

Please read Col. 4:16 where you discover that the epstles of Paul were not to remain in the church which his letters were originally sent to. History tells us that it was because his letters - and other such letters - were widely circulated among the existing churches that these letters were put together into what is our Scripture today. Thus even the problem at Corinth soon became a matter of concern for all of the Christian churches.

This was further evident when some time after Paul's death another letter was written to the church at Corinth dealing with their interal problems. This excellent letter was for a while circulated with the original Bible, but later dismissed together with several others because they were not written by people who had known Jesus themselves. Somehow Paul was counted among those who knew Jesus because he had met Him in a vision, and he knew the Apostles.

[PeacefulBe]

The problem at Corinth stayed at Corinth. Paul did not mention of it to any of the other churches, nor did he solicit the involvement of the 12 apostles in Jerusalem. This was not a matter of concern for anyone except for those immediately involved.

You claim that you are "trying to save the message of God from being ministered by men who have fallen from God!" Well consider this…

Even though God had rejected Saul and David was anointed king, David in no wise took it upon himself to speak a word against Saul. Instead he patiently followed God's will and demonstrated love towards Saul while he waited for God to work things out in God’s own way and time. And after David had become king and sinned a great sin, it was still God's will that David should remain king. In either case, it wasn’t for the people of Israel to speak up against God’s chosen servants.

Like it or not Danny is the head of 3ABN and will remain as such until God removes him. The work Danny is doing through 3ABN is constructive to the building up of the church. On the other hand, it's impossible for the church to be edified by the gossip going on here.

KS,
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 is pretty clear on how we are to deal with fellow Christians who are not following what God commands.
9 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

Are we being told here to let God remove a wicked professed believer in His own time, as you suggest? It doesn't sound that way to me. While this scripture is rather hard for me to read because I love those fellow church members who are allowing Satan to lead them away from God, it is obvious that we are being told their influence is dangerous.

Do you believe in the inspiration of Ellen White? She has an excellent statement on the treatment of our fellow Christian brethern:

"Never question the motives of your brethren; for as you judge them, God has declared you will be judged. Open your hearts to kindliness, to the cheering rays of the Sun of Righteousness. Encourage kindly thoughts and holy affections. Cultivate the habit of speaking well of your brethren. Let not pride or selfish righteousness prevent you from making a frank and full confession of your wrong-doings. If you do not love those for whom Christ has died, you have no genuine love for Christ, and your worship will be as a tainted offering before God. If you cherish unworthy thoughts, misjudging your brethren and surmising evil of them, God will not hear your self-sufficient, self-exalted prayers. When you go to those who you think are doing wrong, you must have the spirit of meekness, of kindness, and be full of mercy and good fruits. Do not show partiality to one or more, and neglect other of your brethren because they are not congenial to you. Beware lest you deal harshly with those who you think have made mistakes, while others, more guilty and more deserving of reproof, who should be severely rebuked for their unChristlike conduct, are sustained and treated as friends."--RH Mar. 12, 1895.

There is a time for rebuke. There is a time for removal. We have clear counsel here.

PB

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Jan 14 2007, 10:36 PM