Another newbie critical of BSDA, Handling of the 3ABN threads Options

[sonshineonme]

Re: "There is only one thing wrong here...the person you are accusing, from what I can see, has never been even tried, much less convicted. I would think any reasonable person on this forum that proffeses christianity of anykind would see the wrong in exposing the "sin" when there is no proof of the sin. Proof, trial & conviction has to have been done before any "exposing" and calling sin by its right name, can be done. Remember "innocent" until PROVEN guilty."

The phrase "innocent until proven guilty" applies to criminal law. The aspects of that application do not directly transfer over to what society expects us to do. Society in the USA expects children to be protected. As accused child molester, even if not convicted, does not have a legal right to be placed in contact with children. When that person is kept from contacting children, thee is no loss of a legal right.

Further society expects that parents will be informed, so that parents, who have the right to govern their children can make responsible choices. This means that parents should be informed that Mr. X has been accused of child molestation, so that parents can decide on whether or not Mr. X has contact with heir children.

I live in an area where a few years ago, under false pretenses, a local clergy person baptized children without the knowledge of the parents. When that became known, it was stopped. Parents govern their children. They need information.

Your statements regarding innocent until guilty, and no criminal conviction, are simply without foundation. If you want to know the denominational (SDA) position on this, search it out. You might write to the Upper Columbia Conference, or to the Walla Walla College Church and ask for a copy of their policy. The policy clearly provides for the protection of children without a criminal conviction. That is what society expects.
Re: "Also I traveled to the GC session in st. louis several years ago at the time this was happening and was told by someone in the GC that Linda was going to try to hand out a book that even though had fictitious names, was described extremely well enough that you knew she was talking about Danny S and the 3ABN ministry. The GC person said he had seen a little of it, whether online, in person, what, I don't know but said it was terrible trash and the GC would not allow it to be handed out in the confines of the stadium where they were holding the session."

Well you are clearly repeating multi-handed gossip. You heard from someone who heard form someone, who heard from someone. . ..

Your reference, of course, is to THE TELEVANGELIST. It may be that someone came to a General Conference (although your dates appear to be off to me), or to some other denominational meeting, with the intent to distribute THE TELEVANGELIST. I do not know.

But, I can definitively tell you that Linda Shelton did not intend to distribute that literary work. The implication that she did is clearly false.

Re: "Then I was told that she had come onto this site as someone else to start if not all, a good portion of the accusations that have been made here."

The above is also false.

You simply do not know what you are talking about.

In they come, stumbling one by one....how much should we let THEM spin and destract? I can name names here, but we know them by their fruits, don't we? I'ver heard (smiling) there are many members of the Shelton family...are they all taking their turn here?

[Fran]

Danny;

Are you reading this?

Aletheia quted and wrote: ...Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind,
but shalt fear thy God:
I am the LORD.

Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment:
thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty:
but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people:
neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour:
I am the LORD.

Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart:
thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour,
and not suffer sin upon him.

Thou shalt not avenge,
nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people,
but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:
I am the LORD...
Lev 19



The end does NOT justify the means, EVER.

[Aletheia]

Question 1 regarding "The phrase "innocent until proven guilty" applies to criminal law"
Does that mean when a Christian comes to you with a tale about one of your brethren, accusing them of sin, they are guilty till proven innocent?

Question 2, regarding "Apparently in your zeal to point out the flaw in others' pointing out the flaws in Danny/3ABN, you have become that which you decry. You proclaim how offended you are by all that has been said... yet you do so publicly and not "just between the two of you (alone, in private).

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

Is error and sin or wrong doing posted on a internet discussion forum private?
Should posters here be addressed publically on the board, or privately?

I think the arguments here are really childish. Yes, I can say that

The point is whoever you find fault, sin or error in, THAT is the person you are to rebuke or reprove, or address, whether privately, or before all.

YOU are NOT to go up and down among the people telling others about it instead nor make webpages to expose people, instead of dealing with them, that is gossip, slander and sin, and a SHAME.

Anybody here think the Ellen White hatesites like www.ellenwhite.org are loving and Christlike.
They claim they are trying to save us poor cult members from a false prophet.

Anybody know anybody they have saved with their methods of reporting and the tactics they use?


Also,Fran, does your Bible say do unto others as you have found fault with them for doing. Or do unto others as they do to you?

Beware of the leaven of the Pharisses, which is _____?

Later...

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Jan 15 2007, 11:49 AM

[Observer]

Re: "Question 1 regarding "The phrase "innocent until proven guilty" applies to criminal law"
Does that mean when a Christian comes to you with a tale about one of your brethren, accusing them of sin, they are guilty till proven innocent?"

Alethia, here is what it means: Society expects us to take certain steps to protect children even if there has never been a criminal conviction. Criminal innocence or guilt is nto the question.

Re: "Question 2, regarding "Apparently in your zeal to point out the flaw in others' pointing out the flaws in Danny/3ABN, you have become that which you decry. You proclaim how offended you are by all that has been said... yet you do so publicly and not "just between the two of you (alone, in private)."

Alethia, anyone who comes here and posts publicly subjects themself to a public response, whatever that response may be.

Re: "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

Yes, when I post publicly, I subject myself to a public resposne.

Re: "Is error and sin or wrong doing posted on a internet discussion forum private?
Should posters here be addressed publically on the board, or privately?"

Again, a public post here allows a public response.

Re: "I think the arguments here are really childish. Yes, I can say that"

Alethia, of course you can say that. No one has prevented you from doing such. We in turn may respond by telling that you are uninformed, if and when that is accurate.

Re: "The point is whoever you find fault, sin or error in, THAT is the person you are to rebuke or reprove, or address, whether privately, or before all.

YOU are NOT to go up and down among the people telling others about it instead nor make webpages to expose people, instead of dealing with them, that is gossip, slander and sin, and a SHAME."

Alethia, if you have read Ellen White I am certain you know that she, at times publicly reproved people, and clearly told us that there were times when public sin must be publicly rebuked.

Re: "Anybody here think the Ellen White hatesites like www.ellenwhite.org are loving and Christlike.
They claim they are trying to save us poor cult members from a false prophet."

Alethia, <ellenwhite.org> is not the issue here. Why you posted that URL for people to access is beyond me. As a result, people are likely to visit it to see what it says. Was that what you wanted?


Re: "Anybody know anybody they have saved with their methods of reporting and the tactics they use?
Also,Fran, does your Bible say do unto others as you have found fault with them for doing. Or do unto others as they do to you?"

Alethia, we are all imperfect. I do not hold anybody, to include myself up as an example of perfection. But, the major players in this are doing what they are doing because they believe they are responding to the call of God. You may reject that. O.K. You are entitled to your thought. But, we will not "come down off the wall" [Read your Bible.] simply because we are imperfect. God choses to use imperfect people who are willing to respond to His call.

Re: "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisses, which is _____?"


Yes, and I invote you to do the same.

Gregory Matthews

[awesumtenor]

Question 2, regarding:

"Apparently in your zeal to point out the flaw in others' pointing out the flaws in Danny/3ABN, you have become that which you decry. You proclaim how offended you are by all that has been said... yet you do so publicly and not "just between the two of you (alone, in private).

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

Is error and sin or wrong doing posted on a internet discussion forum private?

Those who are posting their experience in this forum are not the ones attempting to invoke Matt 18 as a rule to govern the conduct of others. It is you and others who are trying to invoke Matt 18 who miss your own hypocrisy in declaring your being offended publicly and not between "he and thee alone", even as you are admonishing others they should not do such publicly.

If anything posted here offended you, you had an obligation to make that offense known to that person privately... since that is the standard you are insisting others meet... and you havent done that.

Should posters here be addressed publically on the board, or privately?

If you are going to insist others should address their grievances privately, you too should not be addressing yours publicly. Anything short of that makes you a hypocrite.

I think the arguments here are really childish. Yes, I can say that

Said arguments are merely meeting you where you are. If you want to have more mature discourse... grow up.

The point is whoever you find fault, sin or error in, THAT is the person you are to rebuke or reprove, or address, whether privately, or before all.

YOU are NOT to go up and down among the people telling others about it instead nor make webpages to expose people, instead of dealing with them, that is gossip, slander and sin, and a SHAME.

If you truly believed this, you would not be posting in this forum. You continue to miss the log in your own eye, Cindy.

Rather than attacking people, Cindy, provide evidence that refutes their testimony. We keep coming back to this point and you keep trying to muddy the waters in an attempt to conceal the fact that you have no such evidence.

We're waiting. If what has been said is nothing more than gossip and slander, prove it.

In His service,
Mr. J

[PeacefulBe]

SNIP
I think the arguments here are really childish. Yes, I can say that

The point is whoever you find fault, sin or error in, THAT is the person you are to rebuke or reprove, or address, whether privately, or before all.
YOU are NOT to go up and down among the people telling others about it instead nor make webpages to expose people, instead of dealing with them, that is gossip, slander and sin, and a SHAME.

SNIP

Cindy,
Since others have made remarks on many portions of you post I will only respond to the specific parts I have left in your quote.

'You say that whoever you find fault, sin or error in, THAT is the person you are to rebuke or reprove, or address, whether privately, or before all." This, by the way, is Scripturally sound and can be found in Matthew 18:15-17 which says:

"15 If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

Unfortunately, in your very next sentence you rebut what you have just stated.

Please read my post in the link below. It has really specific counsel on how we are to deal with our Christian brethern.

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...2025&st=150

And now for a little story...

Once upon a time in a pleasant country area in a land called Indiana, a young mother was raising two fine young boys on her own. She was deeply spriritual and wanted to make sure her children were raised understanding the Scriptures and enjoying the fellowship of her local Seventh-day Adventist church family.

This mother did everything she could to protect her charges. She fed them healthy food, made sure they got regular medical check-ups, had them in a nice school where they could get the best education possible. She was also very careful who she would let her sons associate with. She only left them with people she knew she could trust.

She got lots of support from her church family. She and her sons went to all the church services and got to know the the local congregation as if they were all close relatives. One man, obviously deeply spiritual himself, helped this young mother from time to time when she needed a jump for her car or help fixing things around her home. Her sons liked the man a lot and he liked them right back. He often acted like a big brother, helping them with their homework, telling them funny stories from his childhood. The young mother would often find herself smiling at the way her boys responded to this man.

From time to time she would allow the man to take her precious little boys to sports functions or even out for pizza. After one of these outings, her oldest boy was acting funny. He didn't seem like himself. As the days passed, the once cheerful boy began flying into rages, sometimes even lashing out at her or hitting his younger brother. What had happened?

She confided in her pastor and was stunned to find out that there were reports that the man who had befriended the family had allegedly abused several young boys in the last church family he had been a part of. Many in her own church family knew about the allegations but didn't want to spread gossip.

The mother smiled sweetly at those who had known and forgave them for not warning her about the man, for that was the right thing to do....

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Jan 15 2007, 06:49 PM

[inga]

I knew someone personally that worked at the 3 abn facility for many years. I considered this person, honest to a fault with a very christian spirit. As that person was around the family a lot they saw and heard a lot. I was told that, at that time, the general consensus with the people there was that Danny Shelton loved his wife to a fault. To a fault, meaning, he gave her, her way, most of the time even when he really shouldn't have. This person also said that he constantlybuilt her up and openly complimented her over and over simply because he cared so much.

Well that is an interesting comment indeed!

I cannot claim to have been around Dan and Linda on the 3ABN compound.

However, they have been in my parents' living room via satellite while I visited there. And by about 2003 or so at least, we saw a very different picture. Dan often belittled Linda in subtle ways on the air and Linda would just sort of smile and take it in stride. (The belitting of Linda was generally disguised as humor, and most folks with life experience know that belittling "humor" is a signal of something wrong.)

Almost a year before Dan cast off Linda my husband remarked --just from observing them on the set --that there was something very wrong with that marriage. He figured something would happen ...

It is interesting how perceptions can differ.

Putting my perceptions and your friends together, we get a rather incongruous picture:
Dan built his wife up off the air and put her down on the air. H'mm ...

[By the way, my husband was not a great fan of Linda Shelton either.]

This post has been edited by inga: Jan 15 2007, 09:27 PM

[Observer]

Cindy,
Since others have made remarks on many portions of you post I will only respond to the specific parts I have left in your quote.

'You say that whoever you find fault, sin or error in, THAT is the person you are to rebuke or reprove, or address, whether privately, or before all." This, by the way, is Scripturally sound and can be found in Matthew 18:15-17 which says:

"15 If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

Unfortunately, in your very next sentence you rebut what you have just stated.

Please read my post in the link below. It has really specific counsel on how we are to deal with our Christian brethern.

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...2025&st=150

And now for a little story...

Once upon a time in a pleasant country area in a land called Indiana, a young mother was raising two fine young boys on her own. She was deeply spriritual and wanted to make sure her children were raised understanding the Scriptures and enjoying the fellowship of her local Seventh-day Adventist church family.

This mother did everything she could to protect her charges. She fed them healthy food, made sure they got regular medical check-ups, had them in a nice school where they could get the best education possible. She was also very careful who she would let her sons associate with. She only left them with people she knew she could trust.

She got lots of support from her church family. She and her sons went to all the church services and got to know the the local congregation as if they were all close relatives. One man, obviously deeply spiritual himself, helped this young mother from time to time when she needed a jump for her car or help fixing things around her home. Her sons liked the man a lot and he liked them right back. He often acted like a big brother, helping them with their homework, telling them funny stories from his childhood. The young mother would often find herself smiling at the way her boys responded to this man.

From time to time she would allow the man to take her precious little boys to sports functions or even out for pizza. After one of these outings, her oldest boy was acting funny. He didn't seem like himself. As the days passed, the once cheerful boy began flying into rages, sometimes even lashing out at her or hitting his younger brother. What had happened?

She confided in her pastor and was stunned to find out that there were reports that the man who had befriended the family had allegedly abused several young boys in the last church family he had been a part of. Many in her own church family knew about the allegations but didn't want to spread gossip.

The mother smiled sweetly at those who had known and forgave them for not warning her about the man, for that was the right thing to do....

Let me add a true story, as I know the parties involved:

Sarah (not her real name) was a dedicated, SDA. She had worked at the Voice of Prophecy. She had worked in evangellism, and had married this fine man who shared her committment to doing the Lord's work, whom I shall call Ralph.

One day, Sarah's world was turned upside down. Ralph had been arrested on two counts of child molestation--the girls were 6 & 9 years old. Ralph pled guilty, and was sentenced to prison. Sarah ended the marriage and attempted to put her life together.

As she moved on, friends informed her that they had been worried about her marriage to Ralph from day one. You see, he had been accused of child molestation in the past. There had been no criminal charges. But, Ralph had had to leave the State where he live, and he had moved to the State where Sarah lived.

As Sarah told me: If only they had informed her prior to her marriage?

[PeacefulBe]

Let me add a true story, as I know the parties involved:

Sarah (not her real name) was a dedicated, SDA. She had worked at the Voice of Prophecy. She had worked in evangellism, and had married this fine man who shared her committment to doing the Lord's work, whom I shall call Ralph.

One day, Sarah's world was turned upside down. Ralph had been arrested on two counts of child molestation--the girls were 6 & 9 years old. Ralph pled guilty, and was sentenced to prison. Sarah ended the marriage and attempted to put her life together.

As she moved on, friends informed her that they had been worried about her marriage to Ralph from day one. You see, he had been accused of child molestation in the past. There had been no criminal charges. But, Ralph had had to leave the State where he live, and he had moved to the State where Sarah lived.

As Sarah told me: If only they had informed her prior to her marriage?

Perhaps we need to have conference-sponsored seminars on learning the difference between gossip and the responsibility to warn others when we have compelling evidence that needs to be shared. It might save some young people from a life of torment.

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Jan 15 2007, 10:08 PM

[inga]

Also I traveled to the GC session in st. louis several years ago at the time this was happening and was told by someone in the GC that Linda was going to try to hand out a book that even though had fictitious names, was described extremely well enough that you knew she was talking about Danny S and the 3ABN ministry. The GC person said he had seen a little of it....

H'mm ... that begins to sound like an interesting bit of fiction ...

In your post of Jan 12 you stated, "A am not SDA."

How, then, do you happen to have such a close relationship to "a GC person" who tells you all sorts of secrets that others don't know? (Of course, in this case, the secret information conveniently slanders Linda Shelton.)

And there was a GC session "at the time this was happening -- "this" presumably being the divorce and events leading up to it???

The events to which you refer, including the GC session are evidently super secret-- so secret that no one else knows about them.

It will be interesting to see how you explain this. Remember that, even in creative writing, you need to keep your story straight so that folks can follow your story line. (Of course, we all know that a certain Dan Shelton has a bit of difficulty in this area. When one story line doesn't fly, he simply spins another one ...)

Carry on ...

I mentioned the possibility of Linda writing a fictional book in my post of July 9, 2006. This is one year and one the day after the General Conference ended. The General Conference ended on July 8, 2005. Why are you off on your dates, WWJD?

Did you, by any chance, take the fictional book idea I posted at this forum in July, 2006 and turn it into an eyewitness account to a General Conference session that occurred, as you say, "several years ago"?

Just wondering how the "Danny Shelton Time Machine" actually works.

I'm not sure it "works" the same every time.

[sonshineonme]

H'mm ... that begins to sound like an interesting bit of fiction ...

In your post of Jan 12 you stated, "A am not SDA."

How, then, do you happen to have such a close relationship to "a GC person" who tells you all sorts of secrets that others don't know? (Of course, in this case, the secret information conveniently slanders Linda Shelton.)

And there was a GC session "at the time this was happening -- "this" presumably being the divorce and events leading up to it???

The events to which you refer, including the GC session are evidently super secret-- so secret that no one else knows about them.

It will be interesting to see how you explain this. Remember that, even in creative writing, you need to keep your story straight so that folks can follow your story line. (Of course, we all know that a certain Dan Shelton has a bit of difficulty in this area. When one story line doesn't fly, he simply spins another one ...)

Carry on ...


I'm not sure it "works" the same every time.

you go Inga! does this cat really think he is fooling anyone?

[Kaiser Schlabotn...]

.
Clearly any attempt to help you see that the course of this website is wrong falls on deaf ears.
Anyone who dares to call the gossip going on here sin makes himself a target.

What an embarrassment BSDA is to the cause of God. Your slanderous words reek of pride and
arrogance. You fail to understand that gossip is tantamount to the things you accuse others of.
You think you are so righteous in your own conceit, boasting about problems within the church
before the whole world.

You ought to know better! Gossip originated with Lucifer in heaven. It was his power tool to
stir discontent among the angels. From this the whole great controversy was set into motion.

Instead of sighing and crying for the abominations done in Zion, you pour more into the cup.
When somebody puts light from the plain word of God before you, you snuff it out. You think
you are walking in the light, but my, how that light has become darkness! How can any God
fearing Christian have fellowship with you while you walk in the darkness of gossip?

Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people. Lev 19:16

Speak not evil one of another. James 4:11

Let all bitterness…and evil speaking, be put away from you. Ephesians 4:31

BUT many of you not only continue to gossip - you take great pleasure in doing it. This is your witness
before whole world – and you are so proud! Gossip has become your cherished idol:

For out of the abundance of the heart does the mouth speak. Matthew 12:34

For wherever you treasure is, there will you find your heart. Like 12:34

**Edited for Content**
KC

This post has been edited by princessdi: Jan 16 2007, 04:14 PM

[awesumtenor]

.
Clearly any attempt to help you see that the course of this website is wrong falls on deaf ears.
Anyone who dares to call the gossip going on here sin makes himself a target.

What an embarrassment BSDA is to the cause of God. Your slanderous words reek of pride and
arrogance. You fail to understand that gossip is tantamount to the things you accuse others of.
You think you are so righteous in your own conceit, boasting about problems within the church
before the whole world.

You ought to know better! Gossip originated with Lucifer in heaven. It was his power tool to
stir discontent among the angels. From this the whole great controversy was set into motion.

Instead of sighing and crying for the abominations done in Zion, you pour more into the cup.
When somebody puts light from the plain word of God before you, you snuff it out. You think
you are walking in the light, but my, how that light has become darkness! How can any God
fearing Christian have fellowship with you while you walk in the darkness of gossip?

Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people. Lev 19:16

Speak not evil one of another. James 4:11

Let all bitterness…and evil speaking, be put away from you. Ephesians 4:31

BUT many of you not only continue to gossip - you take great pleasure in doing it. This is your witness
before whole world – and you are so proud! Gossip has become your cherished idol:

For out of the abundance of the heart does the mouth speak. Matthew 12:34

For wherever you treasure is, there will you find your heart. Like 12:34

**Edited for content**
KC

They deleted it and locked the thread because you claimed you were leaving never to return again and we dont play ring and run here.

Apparently, your intent was utilizing very very small values of never... seeing that 'never' has actually expired and you have returned.

BTW, dumping one's wife and remarrying fraudulently and molesting boys is not representative of Adventism either...

In His service,
Mr. J

[PrincessDrRe]

Imma say it one mo time.....

"What will ANY of you say if you find out from your ADULT CHILDREN that they were molested by a church official?"

Now.

Change it.

"What will ANY of you say if you find out from your LITTLE CHILD that they were molested by a church official?

Answer - should be the same.
YOU SHOULD BE APPALLED, YOU SHOULD WANT THIS PERSON OUT OF THE CHURCH, AND YOU SHOULD WANT THIS PERSON JUSTLY TRIED IN COURT AND THE EXPOSURE OF THE CRIME TO DETERMINE IF OTHER VICTIMS EXIST AND TO "HELP" YOUR CHILD (grown or not) TO HEAL!

I pray no one NO ONE HERE has to apologize to their child for remaining "silent" all under the guise of "I ain't gonna gossip" and then has to also apologize to their "best friend" for them going through the same thing......

Again. I HOPE THIS DOESN'T WASH ANYONE'S FACE....

[beartrap]

"I realize what you mean by the "Black" in BlackSDA. I doubt there could have been any confusion had I read something uplifting."

"However the intent was to make it obvious for the benefit of anyone who inadvertently wanders into this black hole to know that this conduct is not representative of all Seventh-Day Adventists or of Seventh-Day Adventism for that matter."

And your ugly little racist comments are?