Another newbie critical of BSDA, Handling of the 3ABN threads Options

[wwjd]

HOW DO YOU KNOW???

HOW DO YOU? YOU ACCEPT ALL NEGATIVE INFORMATION POSTED HERE WITHOUT QUESTION. WHEN IT COMES TO DEFENDING STATMENTS IT'S PROVE IT. YOU ARE ALL VERY TRANSPARENT

[awesumtenor]

Unless you have proof that he is right.....right back at ya

ummm... no... the side that has continually made uncorroborated claims is the one with which you are aligned... so the side with the burden of proof is the one with which you are aligned. I, not having a side, have nothing to prove to any... but seeing that prior allegations have presented proof and those denying them have not, the side making the allegations that the abuse happened are not the ones who need to be told to put up or shut up; they've put up so far and I believe they will continue to do so... you have not presented a single thing to refute anything that they have stated, OTOH...what would Jesus do? Not what you've been doing since you came into this forum.

Jesus would have called out your whited sepulchres act a long time ago.

In His service,
Mr. J

This post has been edited by awesumtenor: Jan 26 2007, 01:11 PM

[princessdi]

****This is the very last warning I ma going to give regrading yelling. The next one(s) to yell will have their posting privileges suspended for 48 hrs.****

[Seraphim7]

Right here, I have read the threads and the letters from "alleged" victims. No where, let me repeat, no where Have I read where the"alleged incidents" involved children. According to the alleged "victims" they were between 17 and 20 years of age when these supposed instances took place.

I am trying to wrap my mind around what you are saying...

Bystander whether you wishes to accept it or not the fact is 17 is still a minor in ALL 50 states, VI and Puerto Rico. And no man is justified in approaching a child, period.

Are we to understand that you are saying it is ok for an adult married male pastor to approach another man?

[Pickle]

Yohann, You Are Wrong, Very Wrong. Unless you have something more than heresay or a few letters, it would be best for you to drop that accusation. Consider your accountability to God and man.

Brad Dunning claims he was around 14 at the time.

The new victim claims he was 8.

What evidence do you have that can prove that these allegations are incorrect? I think it would be helpful to have that ASAP.

[Clay]

I am trying to wrap my mind around what you are saying...

Bystander whether you wishes to accept it or not the fact is 17 is still a minor in ALL 50 states, VI and Puerto Rico. And no man is justified in approaching a child, period.

Are we to understand that you are saying it is ok for an adult married male pastor to approach another man?

yeah thats what Bystander is suggesting.... then again since Bystander also said they were leaving and have yet to leave, who knows what to believe when Bystander types.....

[Johann]

Yohann,
- - -
Consider your accountability to God and man.

That is my whole purpose. What is yours?

I have stated this several times before: Why did the Lord send me to 3ABN?

[Ralph]

First of all, because they wrote these letters does not make it fact.

You are correct, Bystander. Just because a person writes something does not make it fact. We have seen that from what you have written.
BUT
The likelihood that people from different parts of the country would come up with similar stories is somewhere in the region of 1 in an 10^nth power.

I have listened to so many stories from people who have had absolutely no reason to tell me about abuse rather than that it was bothering them so much.

One of the key problems that I find with male-male assault is that the victim starts having doubts about his own sexuality. Why me? What did he see in me? Am I somehow different than the other guys? Can they see the difference? Am I gay? -- and on it goes.

Sometimes there is a misconception that an abused man will become an abuser. Although it has happened, it is more likely that the man will develop a gut-level anger that doesn't make sense to anyone. Many victims of sexual assault turn to drugs and alcohol for self medication.

In the past ten years, many victims of sexual assault have talked with me. I know that if there is an abused person, there was an abuser, yet never once has an abuser picked up the phone and talked with me on the crisis line.

Can an abuser be forgiven? Can God reach him? Most certainly. But forgiveness and the assurance of heaven does not indicate that there will not be any consequences in this life whether it be through guilt or from being exposed, or both.

Bystander, it absolutely burns me when a person doubts the testimony of the accused. The good book tells us that truth is established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. And it also has some very strong words about those who give false testimony. My assessment of what I have read is that we have to accept the testimony of those who have written here or on save3abn. Although lawyers may wish to imply that the pastors have committed perjury and that Tommy's "confession" was manufactured by someone, both you and I know the truth.

This post has been edited by Ralph: Jan 26 2007, 03:18 PM

[husbandoftheyear]

Bystander, it absolutely burns me when a person doubts the testimony of the accused. The good book tells us that truth is established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. And it also has some very strong words about those who give false testimony.

And one wonders why our children don't feel safe enough to tell...or adults for that matter.

[Snoopy]

HOW DO YOU? YOU ACCEPT ALL NEGATIVE INFORMATION POSTED HERE WITHOUT QUESTION. WHEN IT COMES TO DEFENDING STATMENTS IT'S PROVE IT. YOU ARE ALL VERY TRANSPARENT

My apologies for yelling. However, with all due respect, now you are the one who is wrong. You don't know me from adam. You have no idea what my motivation is for being here. I have stated it several times in other posts that I am only here looking for the truth. Your statement that "you accept all negative information posted here wtihout question" is completely off the mark. As a matter of fact, I have been trained professionally to question everything, and I believe next to nothing without proof. You might find it interesting to know that I only came here looking for answers to insinuations I heard from 3ABN, and that I have been a substantial supporter of 3ABN. Given that, I think I have a right to search for answers. And you know what I've found thus far? On the one hand, there are documents and open discussion - on the other hand, there are people like you spouting off about the authenticity of the documents and refusing to answer reasonable questions. Even for a confirmed skeptic like myself, the scales of truth and transparency are tipping...

[PeacefulBe]

My apologies for yelling. However, with all due respect, now you are the one who is wrong. You don't know me from adam. You have no idea what my motivation is for being here. I have stated it several times in other posts that I am only here looking for the truth. Your statement that "you accept all negative information posted here wtihout question" is completely off the mark. As a matter of fact, I have been trained professionally to question everything, and I believe next to nothing without proof. You might find it interesting to know that I only came here looking for answers to insinuations I heard from 3ABN, and that I have been a substantial supporter of 3ABN. Given that, I think I have a right to search for answers. And you know what I've found thus far? On the one hand, there are documents and open discussion - on the other hand, there are people like you spouting off about the authenticity of the documents and refusing to answer reasonable questions. Even for a confirmed skeptic like myself, the scales of truth and transparency are tipping...

Snoopy, this really mirrors my journey here as well. I am also very familiar with dysfunctional family systems that create the types of attitudes we have seen here from "the other hand". In my experience those scales are usually firmly affixed to the eyes and ears. In my own extended family many are still deep in denial for whatever reason. Some have stayed that way to the grave. It creates a culture that allows for the cycle of abuse to continue from generation to generation. Do I love those family members any less? Absolutely not! I also have not given up hoping and praying that God's light of truth will break through the darkness.

[PrincessDrRe]

Right here, I have read the threads and the letters from "alleged" victims. No where, let me repeat, no where Have I read where the"alleged incidents" involved children. According to the alleged "victims" they were between 17 and 20 years of age when these supposed instances took place. First of all, because they wrote these letters does not make it fact. Secondly it is unfair, untrue and very insulting that so many on this forum refer to the little innocent children. If and I say IF any of these instances happened, there were NO CHILDREN involved. All of you that have raced to view these letters, know this, you just want to twist the "so called" facts to try to upset people as much as possible.
Sad

Isn't 17 a minor? It seems so to me! Be careful.

Now, see that is what I was thinking. and it is in every state of the Union. So he is still a pedophile.

Also, that Bystander and WWJD are majoring in minors, so to speak. As an "alleged" Man of God, and married man Tommy had no business approaching young men of any agein such manner. To do so is an abuse of his position of authority.

This all said it in a nut shell. To split hairs.... Tisk-Tisk....

If the man approached a 17 year old....they were a child and he's a molestor!!!

If the man approached a 20 year old...they were a grown man & he's a homosexual pastor.

Which is it?!?

[princessdi]

Girl, apparently he is both.....jes' nasty!!! i'm sorry I just gots to tel it like it 'tis!!

This all said it in a nut shell. To split hairs.... Tisk-Tisk....

If the man approached a 17 year old....they were a child and he's a molestor!!!

If the man approached a 20 year old...they were a grown man & he's a homosexual pastor.

Which is it?!?

[PrincessDrRe]

I need someone to explain to me which one of my choices is "righter"?

[Hawk]

Right here, I have read the threads and the letters from "alleged" victims. No where, let me repeat, no where Have I read where the"alleged incidents" involved children. According to the alleged "victims" they were between 17 and 20 years of age when these supposed instances took place.

Bystander reflects ASI, 3ABN and the Shelton family very well.

The Catholic Church had it's scandal and they resolved it by settling with the victims of their priests. In the Adventist world the Adventists, ASI and the church support 3ABN which threatens to sue people and churches who try to stop child molestation. They attack anyone who dares to stand up against their own cherished sexual predator and attack his victims mercilessly. Yet, the millions pour in. And 3ABN regularly runs programs disparaging the Catholic Church for being the Beast of St. John's Apocalypse.

Hmmm.... an interesting news story that, methinks.

This post has been edited by Hawk: Jan 27 2007, 12:46 AM