Proofs, Or Lack Thereof, A concern of causing false assumptions Options

[Denny]

I do leave to try and witness to others in the city, but they are so caught up with where they are in life till it's scary. I keep saying to myself, "it's all going to burn up soon when Jesus comes".

So will the countryside.....we are to be a witness not a recluse, where we get this idea that we are supposed to flee the city would love to know cos its not in the bible. But if people want to leave those evil city then that their personal choice, then we become even more irrelevant to our fellow men......

Cities are made up of groups of people - if a groups Adventists flee to the country lo and behold ... you get another city - perhaps its an American thing ..... you all got the space after all. When EGw wrote her words the church was not a world wide church so take that into context. E.g People in the WI cannot flee the city, there is not city, they will just bump into the same people they are supposedly fleeing from.....

[Jnana15]

the text refers to those who live in Judea...... why is that overlooked?

I didn't know that Clay, but see, I try to apply warnings in the bible to my life and use EGW and help me understand that which is difficult for me to grasp. When I read in the testimonies about country living over 25 years ago, I was convited to get out of the city. God finally gave me the desires of my heart and I praise His Holy Name!

I find that most people who disagree with EGW make life a little challenging for me. I use to hate her writings when I was young, but now, I love them once I stopped getting beat upside the head with her writings from my father. JMHO

[Denny]

the text refers to those who live in Judea...... why is that overlooked?

Perhaps some of us time travel???

[Jnana15]

So will the countryside.....we are to be a witness not a recluse, where we get this idea that we are supposed to flee the city would love to know cos its not in the bible. But if people want to leave those evil city then that their personal choice, then we become even more irrelevant to our fellow men......

I don't consider myself a recluse. I have lived in the city most of my life. I have been under bridges feeding the homeless and giving away money when I had almost none myself and took my small children with me. When I read the life of Christ, He was not raised in the city. Moses, Enoch, and John the Baptist didn't live in the city. God took care of Elijah during the famine and he was not in the city. These holy men were not recluses.

[Clay]

I didn't know that Clay, but see, I try to apply warnings in the bible to my life and use EGW and help me understand that which is difficult for me to grasp. When I read in the testimonies about country living over 25 years ago, I was convited to get out of the city. God finally gave me the desires of my heart and I praise His Holy Name!

I find that most people who disagree with EGW make life a little challenging for me. I use to hate her writings when I was young, but now, I love them once I stopped getting beat upside the head with her writings from my father. JMHO

this is a different United States than the one that existed when she wrote what she did.... in 1870 there were about 38 million people who lived in the U.S. Now there are 300 million...

[Denny]

I don't consider myself a recluse. I have lived in the city most of my life. I have been under bridges feeding the homeless and giving away money when I had almost none myself and took my small children with me. When I read the life of Christ, He was not raised in the city. Moses, Enoch, and John the Baptist didn't live in the city. God took care of Elijah during the famine and he was not in the city. These holy men were not recluses.

Jesus came from Nazreth a bad town, Moses lived in Egypt in a palace not in a country village, and for Enoch you don't know where he lived cos it does not say so you are reaching, John the Baptist lived in the wilderness but came down to where the people were but where he was brought up I do not know.

[Pickle]

A third reason is that prophecy is very often given for far broader application that what the prophet himself realizes when he writes the prophecy. Thus even though Ellen herself might have had only the SDA church in mind when she wrote, God could have intended this to apply to ALL of his visible churches on earth... represented by the myriad different "denominations". And with Christianity as a whole under attack as it is today... especially in some sectors of the world... it is quite possible that Christianity as a whole may "look as though it is going to fall".... and the promise that it will not fall, but stand to the end, may be one that includes ALL denominations that are a part of this wider Christian brotherhood of churches.

The problem with that thought, WB, is that the Church of Rome has been in a fallen condition for centuries, and that the churches of Protestantism fell in the 1840's when they knowingly and intentionally rejected the message of a pre-millennial Advent. Thus, we can't say that these churches may appear as about to fall but won't fall when they already fell.

It was utterly atrocious when Stockman was illegally defrocked while home dying from, I think, TB, simply because he taught that Christ was literally coming before the millennium instead of after.

Besides our pioneers stating the above, we do have Ellen White saying it too after they did, and you may have noticed how I was using words from Great Controversy in my first paragraph. One might say that she didn't understand the full meaning of her words, which of course is possible.

Yet the fact remains that she said the Church of Rome was in a fallen state for centuries, and that the churches of Protestantism fell in the 1840's when they rejected the message of a soon coming Savior. Regardless of what these words mean in their entirety, they do mean what they say.

[Jnana15]

Mat 5:13-16 You are like salt for everyone on earth. But if salt no longer tastes like salt, how can it make food salty? All it is good for is to be thrown out and walked on. (14) You are like light for the whole world. A city built on top of a hill cannot be hidden, (15) and no one would light a lamp and put it under a clay pot. A lamp is placed on a lampstand, where it can give light to everyone in the house. (16) Make your light shine, so that others will see the good that you do and will praise your Father in heaven.

based on the above text, seems like moving away from people would be like lighting a lamp and putting it under a clay pot.... but that's just me...

Well, I have seemed to found people in these mountains that want to know more about Jesus and the Sabbath. Maybe this is where God wants me to witness. My kid has been asked to play the organ in a Methodist church on a Sunday service. Is this a witness? Are we putting our light under a clay pot by saying yes? I have Adventist telling me to be careful that I don't bring demons home with us from visiting other churches. God has blessed my kid with a gift that we are willing to share with others. We daily put on the WHOLE amour of God.

There are two Adventist churches in these mountains and all they do is fight for power and control. I watch friends leave and go to other churches (not Adventist churches) for the lack of love and concerns for them. I don't condemn them, I try to show them the love of Jesus

Going back

This post has been edited by Jnana15: May 29 2007, 10:55 AM

[Pickle]

Jesus came from Nazreth a bad town, Moses lived in Egypt in a palace not in a country village, and for Enoch you don't know where he lived cos it does not say so you are reaching, John the Baptist lived in the wilderness but came down to where the people were but where he was brought up I do not know.

Hi Denny.

It is a fact that the "cities" of the Bible were specks compared to what we call cities today. A professor at Andrews told me ... I wish I could remember the specifics ... that you could put X number of Jerusalems on the site of Andrews University. So Nazareth was like a country town as it was, since it was a lot smaller than Jerusalem, though you are right about it being wicked.

Jesus testified by His Spirit through His prophet a century ago that Enoch lived on the country but would travel to the city to minister. From what I've read, it wasn't a daily commute. Maybe he's stay for a week or month or so. But it is clear that he did go back to his country outpost to get refreshed, taking others with him out of the city.

So we do know with certainty where Enoch lived.

As far as Moses goes, the training he got amidst the splendor of Egypt was so inadequate that God had to put him out to pasture for 40 years, till he had learned the lessons he needed to amidst God's great outdoors.

[Jnana15]

Jesus came from Nazreth a bad town, Moses lived in Egypt in a palace not in a country village, and for Enoch you don't know where he lived cos it does not say so you are reaching, John the Baptist lived in the wilderness but came down to where the people were but where he was brought up I do not know.

Ya'll will probably tell me that EGW wrote this at a different time for a different place, but I remember reading she wrote that Enoch would talk with God and would go down and tell the people what God had said and NO it's not in the bible Finally God took him. I do read and believe in ELLEN G. WHITE and I will not apologize for this, so go ahead and rip me apart. Jesus was raised in the hills of Nazareth, Moses fled from Egypt and cared for Jethro's sheep for forty years (maybe not the entire time) before returning to Egypt.

[Clay]

Ya'll will probably tell me that EGW wrote this at a different time for a different place, but I remember reading she wrote that Enoch would talk with God and would go down and tell the people what God had said and NO it's not in the bible Finally God took him. I do read and believe in ELLEN G. WHITE and I will not apologize for this, so go ahead and rip me apart. Jesus was raised in the hills of Nazareth, Moses fled from Egypt and cared for Jethro's sheep for forty years (maybe not the entire time) before returning to Egypt.

to rip you apart might foster a martyr complex... I will simply remind you that Jesus lived and died for you... when read correctly and in context Ellen White points you to Jesus... for you to suggest that you believe in anyone other than Jesus Christ is to give the impression that you are something other than a follower of Him... is that what you would have us believe?

[princessdi]

I believe, Jnana, the danger comes in when we ourselves received this as a word from God, then expand it to others. Now, you stated that you and your husband try and convince others to do the same, but can you imagine what would happen if they all took you up on the offer? Who will be left to evangelize the world? As Steve says, how will we be the salt of the earth, if all the salt is congregated in one place? ALso, if Jesus is our example, He stayed" in the mix". So did the disciples/apostles. Also, amore pratical question is, will your wilderness still be wilderness when the time of trouble comes? What is the cloest new housing development, and when did it get there? Where is the next? Will you keep moving as they catch up to you? When EGW first wrote this I am sure there were many who fled to the mountains, who would today find themselves in the middle of a city.

Just a few questions for consideration..........

Well, I have seemed to found people in these mountains that want to know more about Jesus and the Sabbath. Maybe this is where God wants me to witness. My kid has been asked to play the organ in a Methodist church on a Sunday service. Is this a witness? Are we putting our light under a clay pot by saying yes? I have Adventist telling me to be careful that I don't bring demons home with us from visiting other churches. God has blessed my kid with a gift that we are willing to share with others. We daily put on the WHOLE amour of God.

There are two Adventist churches in these mountains and all they do is fight for power and control. I watch friends leave and go to other churches (not Adventist churches) for the lack of love and concerns for them. I don't condemn them, I try to show them the love of Jesus

Going back

[Jnana15]

to rip you apart might foster a martyr complex... I will simply remind you that Jesus lived and died for you... when read correctly and in context Ellen White points you to Jesus... for you to suggest that you believe in anyone other than Jesus Christ is to give the impression that you are something other than a follower of Him... is that what you would have us believe?

Thank you Clay for the correction. Might not be as highly educated with words as you are, but God knows my heart and I use EGW as a lesser light. Oh, I love the other prophets warnings in the bible also. Knowing that Moses and Elijah are in heaven let me know that I can trust their writings or testimonies. I know that John the Baptist didn't write anything, but Jesus called him a prophet also.

I believe that I wouldn't be here today if I wasn't a follower of Jesus. I am a cancer survior of 1 year with a testimony to tell others of what God has done for me.

[Clay]

Thank you Clay for the correction. Might not be as highly educated with words as you are, but God knows my heart and I use EGW as a lesser light. Oh, I love the other prophets warnings in the bible also. Knowing that Moses and Elijah are in heaven let me know that I can trust their writings or testimonies. I know that John the Baptist didn't write anything, but Jesus called him a prophet also.

I believe that I wouldn't be here today if I wasn't a follower of Jesus. I am a cancer survior of 1 year with a testimony to tell others of what God has done for me.

you are welcome... one other thing for your consideration... if you are in the presence of The Light of the World, the function of a "lesser" light would be what? When Jesus arrived on the scene, was it necessary for the followers of John the Baptist to continue following John?

Praise God that you have survived cancer.... may the lord bless you with many more years to proclaim his goodness...

[Observer]

Ya'll will probably tell me that EGW wrote this at a different time for a different place, but I remember reading she wrote that Enoch would talk with God and would go down and tell the people what God had said and NO it's not in the bible Finally God took him. I do read and believe in ELLEN G. WHITE and I will not apologize for this, so go ahead and rip me apart. Jesus was raised in the hills of Nazareth, Moses fled from Egypt and cared for Jethro's sheep for forty years (maybe not the entire time) before returning to Egypt.

Jnana, what have we done to you for you to come on to us like that? You are so defensive one would almost think that we had ripped your heart out of your body and boiled it for supper. have we injured you that much, or do you typically treat people like that, even before you get to know them?