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[Richard Sherwin]

It would seem that most of the Dannynites got the memo about not posting tonight. Or maybe since several of them might be just one of them they are out, well, maybe they are flying on that Citation VI to another beg-a-thon.

(My dog begs but he don't know any better)

Richard




This post has been edited by Richard Sherwin: Feb 23 2007, 08:53 PM

[SoulEspresso]

It would seem that most of the Dannynites got the memo about not posting tonight. Or maybe since several of them might be just one of them they are out, well, maybe they are flying on that Citation VI to another beg-a-thon.

(My dog begs but he don't know any better)

Richard

Or to the law offices in MN ...


This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Feb 23 2007, 08:55 PM

[Richard Sherwin]

What? On the Sabbath? No my guess is the only manservants employed today are the pilots, not the 14 lawyers. (Or did I hear it's up to 18 now?)

Or to the law offices in MN ...

This post has been edited by Richard Sherwin: Feb 23 2007, 08:59 PM

[PeacefulBe]

PD, Where is Duane's reply to Tommy, and why didn't he hand it over to be published, instead of only giving Tommy's private apology and letting some anonymous person who sounds alot like you ridicule and interpret it in the worst possible light?

Is that the same letter Tommy has, or has it been edited?

I'm thinking you need to ask these kind of questions.

A/C, how do we even know that Duane replied to Tommy's email? Perhaps he will read your question and provide you with an answer. Tommy's email is a pretty solid piece of evidence all on its own.

BTW, are you accusing me of being the person who, by living through the devastating experiences of molestation as a child, has learned what pedophiles do to groom and control their victims before, during and after victimizing them? Are you saying that what I post here sounds like that anonymous person who has an insight into the mind of a predator and was able to read between the carefully crafted lines of Tommy's "confession" and see the true message? Interesting.

[Aletheia]

Re? Is that how you prove truth, and justify yourself???

Princess Dr Re:
Exactly the same way you don't "counter-prove"?

Read below demon of satan!
......and that is exactly what you are. A demonic force of satan. You have come on this board - trying to pin molestation charges back on adult survivors - by trying to make them legal and consenting. Not just the fact that it was molestation; but sex with someone of the same sex, by a married Pastor, with a CHILD! Satan the LORD rebuke you in the name of JESUS! Read below demon of satan!

QUOTE:PrincessDrRe:
.....In the name of JESUS I rebuke you satan! In the name of JESUS!!! You are rebuked satan! Your lies and means of twisting words are not welcome here on this blessed Sabbath day! IN THE NAME OF JESUS satan YOU MUST BOW BEFORE THE LORD! Amen!

...and AMEN again....

And this because I asked you if you could prove and support your constant accusations? You need to calm down woman, and think!

1. I have said 3ABN is NOT GUILTY of the accusations Joy and Piclkle have made about them in regard to T.S. and I have explained why.
2. I have only stated T.S. is innocent till proven guilty, but tend to believe that what has been brought up is from the past and was investigated and taken care of then.
3. Anything which *may* be new is a legal issue and if there is merit to the allegations of sexual assualt and molestation and he is a pedophile then he needs to be charged. It is a State and a Church of God issue.
4. I have said If you believe him guilty and are concerned about children, then you need to realize, Pickle and Joy going after his former employer (3ABN), does not protect children elsewhere, nor can 3ABN charge T.S. with a crime.

Do you honestly have a problem with that?

I am writing this because I am concerned about you, for one. I don't want sin lying at your door, I want you to one day soon be praising God in the congregation of the saints and not weeping and wailing.

You are accountable for the things you say about others, and you better be able to give a just cause and reason when it comes to both God's court, -- and a civil court since you have now jumped to that conclusion.

If you can't answer me here, how can you answer that question in a court of law, and How will you answer God as every idle word will enter into the judgment, and you've said much more here then just an idle word.

I believe reasonable people would see the inconsistancies and lack of evidence and holes in the accusations posted on Save-3ABN and have a reasonable doubt, and so would not repeat it as fact till all is proved.


!. This is the internet, people lie.

2. In order to figure out the truth, you have to do more then listen to rumors and accusations. You need to check out both sides, and all involved, and verify what is factual and what is not.

3. It is not reaasonable, nor Christian to just accept what some people say without doing so, and call others liars, and child molesters, and demon possessed without doing so.

4. Repeating unsupported opinions or personal judgments will not help you in a court, nor work as a defense, as if you go to court it is those things you will be being sued about. You will be needing to give the reasons and facts, just as I asked you for.

If you are really thinking you'll be called to court or sued, and taking notes, then I suggest you start being able to explain your position and why, because calling a lawyer Satan and rebuking him, or telling him he needs to read eveything posted on BSDA, or asking him if he'd leave his children with T.S. won't work there either.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Feb 24 2007, 04:32 AM

[ex3ABNemployee]

This wasn't written to me, but I HAD to respond.

1. I have said 3ABN is NOT GUILTY of the accusations Joy and Piclkle have made about them in regard to T.S. and I have explained why.

I see. So, you need proof that myself and other victims are "telling the truth", but you already know that 3ABN is "not guilty" without seeing any such proof from them.

2. I have only stated T.S. is innocent till proven guilty, but tend to believe that what has been brought up is from the past and was investigated and taken care of then.

Are you really that blind? Read my statement again, I just came forward for the first time in January of this year. How could it have already been investigated? The same goes for my brother and at least 4 others that I know of personally. You can't see that because you don't want to see it.

3. Anything which *may* be new is a legal issue and if there is merit to the allegations of sexual assualt and molestation and he is a pedophile then he needs to be charged. It is a State and a Church of God issue.

There are allegations outside the Church of God.

4. I have said If you believe him guilty and are concerned about children, then you need to realize, Pickle and Joy going after his former employer (3ABN), does not protect children elsewhere, nor can 3ABN charge T.S. with a crime.

It has been explained time and again why 3ABN may have some liability here. Again, you're just here to exonerate Tommy, Danny and 3ABN, so you're not going to listen to anything else.

Do you honestly have a problem with that?

I am writing this because I am concerned about you, for one. I don't want sin lying at your door, I want you to one day soon be praising God in the congregation of the saints and not weeping and wailing.

You are accountable for the things you say about others, and you better be able to give a just cause and reason when it comes to both God's court, -- and a civil court since you have now jumped to that conclusion.

If you can't answer me here, how can you answer that question in a court of law, and How will you answer God as every idle word will enter into the judgment, and you've said much more here then just an idle word.

I believe reasonable people would see the inconsistancies and lack of evidence and holes in the accusations posted on Save-3ABN and have a reasonable doubt, and so would not repeat it as fact till all is proved.
!. This is the internet, people lie.

2. In order to figure out the truth, you have to do more then listen to rumors and accusations. You need to check out both sides, and all involved, and verify what is factual and what is not.

3. It is not reaasonable, nor Christian to just accept what some people say without doing so, and call others liars, and child molesters, and demon possessed without doing so.

4. Repeating unsupported opinions or personal judgments will not help you in a court, nor work as a defense, as if you go to court it is those things you will be being sued about. You will be needing to give the reasons and facts, just as I asked you for.

If you are really thinking you'll be called to court or sued, and taking notes, then I suggest you start being able to explain your position and why, because calling a lawyer Satan and rebuking him, or telling him he needs to read eveything posted on BSDA, or asking him if he'd leave his children with T.S. won't work there either.

You constantly suggest that myself and other victims and their families may be lying. You question constantly how old we were, did we consent, were charges filed, etc.... Have you ever considered that you have numerous SIGNED statements that all basically tell the same story, and yet Tommy and Carol both write lengthy letters and neither of them deny the allegations? It's hard to get the "other side of the story" when the other side won't respond.

Court, court, court. I'm so sick of seeing that word. If someone wants to sue me for what I've said, then have at it. I'll say it all again before a judge, and then some. Empty threats of being sued accomplish NOTHING.

One of two things is going on here. You are either completely dedicated to the cause of refuting and discrediting anyone who speaks out against sexual abuse, or you have a comprehension problem. I'll let you decide which one it is.

Don't bother asking me any more questions, or trying to get others to do so. You and I are through talking. "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." Romans 16:17-18 KJV

[Noahswife]

I came across the following quote this morning:

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering. ....... Doctor Who

nw

[Clay]

I came across the following quote this morning:

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering. ....... Doctor Who

nw

great statement.....

[PeacefulBe]

This wasn't written to me, but I HAD to respond.

I see. So, you need proof that myself and other victims are "telling the truth", but you already know that 3ABN is "not guilty" without seeing any such proof from them.

Are you really that blind? Read my statement again, I just came forward for the first time in January of this year. How could it have already been investigated? The same goes for my brother and at least 4 others that I know of personally. You can't see that because you don't want to see it.

There are allegations outside the Church of God.

It has been explained time and again why 3ABN may have some liability here. Again, you're just here to exonerate Tommy, Danny and 3ABN, so you're not going to listen to anything else.

You constantly suggest that myself and other victims and their families may be lying. You question constantly how old we were, did we consent, were charges filed, etc.... Have you ever considered that you have numerous SIGNED statements that all basically tell the same story, and yet Tommy and Carol both write lengthy letters and neither of them deny the allegations? It's hard to get the "other side of the story" when the other side won't respond.

Court, court, court. I'm so sick of seeing that word. If someone wants to sue me for what I've said, then have at it. I'll say it all again before a judge, and then some. Empty threats of being sued accomplish NOTHING.

One of two things is going on here. You are either completely dedicated to the cause of refuting and discrediting anyone who speaks out against sexual abuse, or you have a comprehension problem. I'll let you decide which one it is.

Don't bother asking me any more questions, or trying to get others to do so. You and I are through talking. "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." Romans 16:17-18 KJV

Duane, your words may fly right past those locked in denial, but they will be heard and will help and educate many others!

It is so sad that Aletheia and some others find it so easy to discount the truth in order to paint a picture of this situation that they can be comfortable with.

PB

[Whtz Happenin]

This wasn't written to me, but I HAD to respond.

Duane, This is why we must continually keep our eyes fixed on Jesus.

Psalm 141:8-9
But my eyes are upon You, O GOD the Lord;
In You I take refuge;
Do not leave my soul destitute.
Keep me from the snares they have laid for me,
And from the traps of the workers of iniquity. (NKJV)

Keep it up and know that many are praying for you and all involved!

[wwjd]

Which is your stock in trade, Cindy.


.. put your money where your mouth is and put your male child in his care... I dare you.

In His service,
Mr.

Ts own daughter puts her son in his grandparents care and has hundreds of times. That says far more to me than any of you or anyone else's rhetoric. The daughter was raised with him, you weren't. She was there during those time periods, you weren't, she knows if he is guilty or innocent, you don't, and she also knows, if guilty of any of the accusations, if there has been true repentance and life reformation, you don't.

And before you start attacking her character, She is one of the finest christian women that I know. She is also a great mother. Very protective, very loving and raises her children in the admonition of the Lord. If she thought for one half of a second that her son was at risk with his grandpa she would never ever leave him there.
Now, although, Mr. J, you are all knowing, and feel yourself to be the alpha and omega, I am sorry. You will have to come off of your high horse on this one. Your knowledge of the subjects and subject matter, compared to hers, renders you, Clueless.
BTW, Now we can add to your growing list of name calling, Nazi. That is what you were calling aletheia wasn't it? Someone said your were an elder in your church. Shame on you.

[wwjd]

http://www.save3abn.com/tommy-shelton-confession.htm

After you have read that, please come back and tell me if it proves anything. I'm really interested in your take on what Tommy writes in that email. Pay close attention to where he says "you resisted every attempt that I ever made". Does that sound like Duane was a willing participant?

If the letter is legit, then I see a letter of apology and a request for forgiveness. Many of you have said that is all you would like to see. You are not a lynch mob and would only like to see repentance. I see that, here. It is not for you to judge whether or not something happened to anyone else or if it did, were they apologized too and so on....Duane says this happened to him and says he was sent a letter asking forgiveness. All of you have used this letter as a neon sign of TS's guilt but no one mentions the purpose of said letter. Apology, forgiveness.

*forcibly removes tongue from cheek*

I can't figure it out, Richard. The Dannyscribes come on here, and stir the pot, and beg for whatever they think will divert the discussion. All they accomplish is making Gailon, Bob and Greg look better for what they're doing.

I am sorry soul expresso, nothing in the world could make what gailon/bob/joy are doing, look better.

[wwjd]

This wasn't written to me, but I HAD to respond.

Duane, I would like to ask you a couple ofquestions and I ask them respectfully. Of course, you don't have to answer, that is your perogative. I have commented on another post about the letter from TS on the joy site. I pointed out that this is used for TS guilt but no one comments on the fact that it is a letter of apology and a request for forgiveness. I have read on one of your posts that says an apology is all you want. It looks like you had that. Am I wrong? If I am correct, why has the apology been ignored and you obviously have felt a need to come to Joys site and bring public retribution. After all, the word says if we have ought with a brother....between them two....So, my point is, if you are going to respond that he hasn't apologized to others (if there is guilt there) wouldn't that be between he and God? All you can go on is what happened between you and he. You say the letter posted is from TS so at the time you received it, shouldn't forgiveness have been granted? You are not accountable to God for any other situation, only yours. I truly am trying to understand this situation.
My other question is: Did you reply to that letter of apology? If so, shouldn't it, in all fairness, be posted along with the TS letter, regardless of what it says?

[awesumtenor]

Ts own daughter puts her son in his grandparents care and has hundreds of times. That says far more to me than any of you or anyone else's rhetoric.

there are plenty of pedophiles who dont prey on their own household... that doesn't make them any less a sexual predator.

The daughter was raised with him, you weren't. She was there during those time periods, you weren't, she knows if he is guilty or innocent, you don't, and she also knows, if guilty of any of the accusations, if there has been true repentance and life reformation, you don't.

Talk to the mental health professionals who deal with the victims of sexual predators and you will realize how clueless you are here. There are several in the forum, BTW... and even if all you've said here is true... that still doesnt mean he would not molest Cindy's child or mine or someone else not related to him by blood.

And before you start attacking her character, She is one of the finest christian women that I know. She is also a great mother. Very protective, very loving and raises her children in the admonition of the Lord. If she thought for one half of a second that her son was at risk with his grandpa she would never ever leave him there.

You need to work on that whole presumption thing you have going on...

Now, although, Mr. J, you are all knowing, and feel yourself to be the alpha and omega, I am sorry. You will have to come off of your high horse on this one. Your knowledge of the subjects and subject matter, compared to hers, renders you, Clueless.

You attribute to me that which is the sole province of God and yet *I'm* supposed to be the clueless one? I'll tell you what... if you can show any statement I've made where I claimed to be omniscient or possessed any of the earmarks of divinity... ever... I will concede that you are right on every point...and if you cannot show such a statement you leave BSDA and never return... the problem for you is the same people that will read this will read the post you made to Duane Clem where you are making so much stink about TS' letter of apology and his requesting forgiveness... there has to be guilt for him to seek forgiveness; there has to be wrongdoing on his part toward Duane for him to apologize. You and Cindy and others keep trying to insist that he did nothing but the problem is that he has already admitted to it. The conversations you are having with different people dont exist in a vacuum; the things you concede in talking to Duane remain conceded when you speak to me... and vice versa.

Talking to Duane, you admit that confession was made and forgiveness sought by TS; once you did that, the rest of this nonsense about his daughter and grandson is irrelevant. He's a pederast even if he manages to resist the incestuous inclinations.

BTW, Now we can add to your growing list of name calling, Nazi. That is what you were calling aletheia wasn't it? Someone said your were an elder in your church. Shame on you.

If the shoe fits... then she will wear it... and as far as my church is concerned there are myriad folk here who know my pastor... and unlike you I dont hide underneath a burqha of anonymity or play other punk games to keep people from attributing what I say to me... so he knows where I stand.. If your camp doesnt want to be viewed as putting out Goebbels-esque propaganda, then stop putting out revisionist history that doesnt even remain consistent from poster to poster.

In His service,
Mr. J

[GrammieTana]

As a Dannyscribe, (or Dannynite) you offer up red herrings to divert attention away from the perp of the crimes. Same old same old, you can't attack the message so you attack the messenger. And in so doing you further the work of those bringing out the truth about Tom/Dan and company. Why don't you try to dispute the evidence, or offer some of your own if you are so sure of the innocence of Tommy and the coverup by Danny? How sad the the appologist have nothing more to offer than this.

Richard

Sorry, I was 'encouraged' to remove my answer to this quote.

JT

This post has been edited by JustTana: Feb 25 2007, 12:10 PM