Mr Joy's Creditability, Owner of save3abn.com Options

[sister]

Snoopy you are definitely invited. Please forgive my "four paw". (i was looking for a way to use that)

Just be careful of my avatar as he is defintely the alpha in my clan.

Any one want pineapple on those hay stacks?

Heading back outside to set up the tables.
Note to self: more black beans, more chili, more fritos, more sour cream, more avocadoes.......

Haystacks hawaiian style? I'll save my pineapple for the chocolate fountain! Hey, Bear, what about tamales? Yum,Yum,Yum. And Re, bring on the Black olives and guacamole to go with it! How about banana cake, I make a mean banana cake or blueberry muffins.

[PeacefulBe]

FHB,

I have to agree with you on the content of John Alfke's profile. I can't see where a wry sense of humor would undermine the credibility of his two posts.

While he does mention that he has personal experience with GAJ not paying rent, as you highlighted, it still leaves the majority of the claims unverified. If you have any connection to this man, I would ask you to encourage him to provide verification or, unfortunately, the whole thing begins to look like a ploy, or at the least a grudge statement.

Regarding your last paragraph,

PB

[Johann]

Hey, Sonshineonme, you forgot about inviting me! I have an excellent stash of goodies to bring. How about chocolate bunnies? Personally, I prefer the ears. A party sounds like an excellent idea. Don't forget to invite Bystander, it would be nice to finally have a face to go along with his words. Now, Bystander, I am not trying to out you identity, but if you came you could take a group picture for the lawyers.

Sister

Hey, did anyone invite Johann? Europeans ALWAYS bring a hostess gift when they visit. Do they have chocolate made in Iceland or do they depend upon the Swiss to supply their needs? Johann, what vegie delights do you have in Iceland to share at the party? Make sure you bring your better half, she needs to meet the nice folks at BSDA!

Thank you, Sister, we'd love to attend. They make good chocolate in Iceland too, but not like the Swiss. There are even vegie delights made here, but you can also get most of what is produced in Europe, and some American.

I have read these sad discussions on this thread, but I feel no burden to take part in them.

This morning I woke up from a strange dream. Seemed like Ida and I were just looking out through our living room window and there we look straight down into a volcanic crater that is about 20 minutes from our place. It is thousands of years old, and in the bottom is a deep lake. In my dream the water was covered with thin ice, and as we were looking I see three persons, although I did not recognize them I knew they were from 3ABN. Suddenly they realized they had lost, and one by one they walk out on the thin ice. When they reach the middle of the lake the ice breaks and they plunge through the hole, one by one, and disappear into the depths. I felt we were so helpless because we were too far away to help. AS the last one of the three disappears and I get ready to call 911, I woke up.

Now I have been thinking: How much do I care for these people? Do I love them as brothers and sisters? Do I want them to be saved? What will happen if we change our approach completely in an attempt to save these people from eternal destruction?

I might even tell my dream on the net? Tell them how much I care for them? Would anybody else care, or still treat them as hopeless liars?

It was a sad experience when I discovered that even Pastor John Lomacang twisted the truth around and told the opposite. But I love him too and I want him to be saved. Be a pastor to your church and lead them in the path of God and His Son Jesus Christ that you may be saved! You have to be an example to the others, or they feel they do not have to tell the truth.

[Rosyroi]

Di, Sera, Jnana15, SSOM, PB, Dr Re, Rosyroi, Lookin4Truth, this one is at my place. I just cleaned the grill. Have you ever had roasted medusa? Only meat i am providing. On the other hand, I could also invite all the chocoholics for the first meeting as I am willing to share my stash.....

Oh yes, hostess gifts like watches are optional.....


PS .....Di I love the smilie

Thanks for the invite...

I have a couple of packs of Boca Burgers for those who don't eat meat. Will be bringing my delicious homemade potato salad and 36 pack of iced bottled water in a cooler. Will that do?

Am a chocoholic but found out recently I am allergic to Chocolate. So will bring my tasty homemade carob candy for those who are trying to quit...tastes much better than the store bought carob candy.



I have an engagement watch that hasen't worked in years that my first hubby gave to me before we were married. Would that work as a hostessgift? Hope so, I have been trying to get rid of it but no one seems to want it... dunno why.

Rosyroi
@}---;---;-----

[Seraphim7]

A number of valid points have been made, but when the rubber meets the road the facts are these:

None of these attempts at misdirection change the fact that there are victims who have come forward, and have given their testimony. The victims, some of you have either ignored or tried to marginalize.

The fact that you have shown little if any sympathy or empathy to the victims of molestation and slander speaks volumes about those trying to misdirect any and all who come to BSDA for answers.

The fact is that to many of you, who do not have the courage or the integrity to stand up and say "my name is _________ and I stand here on BSDA/online openly and speak of what I believe is the truth, have the nerve to question anyone elses credibility?

Oooh please, those of you hiding behind screen names have ZERO "credibility" yourselves. So please save that so called indignation for the less discerning. This ain't sabbath shool, we pay attention here...

[Snoopy]

Snoopy you are definitely invited. Please forgive my "four paw". (i was looking for a way to use that)

Just be careful of my avatar as he is defintely the alpha in my clan.

Any one want pineapple on those hay stacks?

Heading back outside to set up the tables.
Note to self: more black beans, more chili, more fritos, more sour cream, more avocadoes.......

...hehehe..."four paw"...hehehe...that's a good one, NW!!!

As for your avatar...well, you know Snoopy - he doesn't back down for anybody, but we'll try to behave...!!

[lookin4truth]

Di, Sera, Jnana15, SSOM, PB, Dr Re, Rosyroi, Lookin4Truth, this one is at my place. I just cleaned the grill. Have you ever had roasted medusa? Only meat i am providing. On the other hand, I could also invite all the chocoholics for the first meeting as I am willing to share my stash.....

Oh yes, hostess gifts like watches are optional.....


PS .....Di I love the smilie

WOW,

Last night I received extended grace and tonight I am invited to a cookout.

I am truly blessed!

Bet if all sides came together for a big cookout we might be surprised at what good friends we could become under different circumstances.

(Psa 133:1) Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!


I'll bring the Diet Pepsi

[Pickle]

Cindy,

Got a question for you.

----- Original Message -----
From: ****
To: ~ Cindy...
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: New Thread

...

"There is new material on Pickled's web site. ..."

Was the name that you asterisked out a close relative of Danny?

I just did a search for "Pickled" and found the following:

Bobby boy, did I miss the post where you answered FHB's and my question concerning writing for the pickled/joy website?

Never have I seen a more beautiful example of the Pickled Propaganda.

Looks like some people think a lot alike.

[sonshineonme]

Cindy,

Got a question for you.
Was the name that you asterisked out a close relative of Danny?

I just did a search for "Pickled" and found the following:
Looks like some people think a lot alike.

I caught that too....not the first time, and you are not the only one to catch some interesting similar statements today...

[princessdi]

Wow!! I know this is really off topic, but I hope to get this type of participation for GC 2010 Atlanta! I will be making an announcement soon, to get an idea of who will be interested and give our brether and sisteren across the water plenty of time to plan to be there! We are Family...I got BSDA with me! We are Family!!

WOW,

Last night I received extended grace and tonight I am invited to a cookout.

I am truly blessed!

Bet if all sides came together for a big cookout we might be surprised at what good friends we could become under different circumstances.

(Psa 133:1) Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
I'll bring the Diet Pepsi

[PeacefulBe]

Wow!! I know this is really off topic, but I hope to get this type of participation for GC 2010 Atlanta! I will be making an announcement soon, to get an idea of who will be interested and give our brether and sisteren across the water plenty of time to plan to be there! We are Family...I got BSDA with me! We are Family!!

What month? I've been hopin to see that new aquarium there!

Cindy,

Got a question for you.
Was the name that you asterisked out a close relative of Danny?

I just did a search for "Pickled" and found the following:
Looks like some people think a lot alike.

Good catch, Bob. Well, Cindy did say she and BS were great friends now.

[princessdi]

Here is the website. Dates are June 23-July .
GC 2010

3

What month? I've been hopin to see that new aquarium there!

[Observer]

Greg,

You were included in the inquiry because you have spoken for Mr. Joy in the past. You have associated yourself with him as part of Linda's team in regards to the ASI situation. Granted you have said that you are not all of one mind on all issues, but that doesn't change the fact that you have generally thrown in together in regards to the issues involving 3ABN.

The link I provided in the OP takes you directly to the posts - not the profile. I am not sure why you ended up at the profile when the link doesn't take you there. But, for clarity, here are the posts that are used as reference:

Post #1
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 10:05 am:
Post #2
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 12:21 am:
It is obvious that this isn't second hand information, but first hand information. The author of the posts indicates direct experience in regards to the claims. I have bolded the sections that indicate first hand source.

As to his profile, it is filled with tongue-in-cheek comments indicating a sense of humor. Does this make his claims invalid, I don't see how. The OP included a link to the information above. If you don't want to answer feel free to not do so.

And lest there be any uncertainty, I am not claiming that Gailon is guilty of the claims made above - as I did in my OP and another subsequent post I have asked for clarification on these issues. It is not unreasonable to explore the source of information found on the JoyPickle site. The information there has been promulgated here and cited many times in many postings here. Is that a valid source of information? Can you answer that without understanding the motives of those involved? Can you trust that information if those presenting it may have questionable approaches? As the poster at ATomorrow points out, while he generally sides with Linda, he questions the website used to attack Danny and 3ABN because of the claims he makes in his post.

No one has questioned you Greg. While you are one of Linda's main proponents publically you have not established a web site and carried around the title "Investigator" as a way to give validity to your claims or accusations. Gailon has placed himself in the center of all things 3ABN related. Can his word be trusted as one considers whether or not to support 3ABN in any form - this is where this issue comes into play.

Gailon has endeavored to create a perception that would lead people to withdraw support. This is intentional. He claims his information is solid and the truth. But, does this information and the embezzlement issue raise concerns about the veracity of his "truth"? I would think for most rational thinking individuals it would raise questions about it.

Danny, Tommy, the 3ABN BoD, Mollie, Shelley, their husbands, John Lomacang, et. al. have made statements that they claim to be true and yet each time they are held to a standard of review. Their words are regularly called lies. Their personal lives have been laid open here in more than one thread. Gailon has placed himself in this situation on the same plane as these people, the same plane as the representatives from ASI. That means his work is open for review and it must be reviewed the same as those at 3ABN are reviewed. If Mollie's words and action are going to be dissected, both her personal and private ones, and decisions about 3ABN are going to made based on this - then for balance to occur the same must be done with Mr. Joy and his site (and yes, we all know he owns the site, but it is clear by reading and comparing writing styles that he isn't the one writing the content).

I will grant you and others this, I may have rushed this topic to the boards. I could have emailed Mr. Joy, (he can email me as he has my email address courtesy of Mr. Pickle.) However, because of verification from other sources that these claims need to be addressed I posted it. In hindsight I could have established a stronger position by seeking a response from Mr. Joy. I would expect that his response would have been much the same as the one Mr. Pickle began to present in an earlier post and sounded a lot like the weak, rationalizing defense given for the embezzlement question - but I should have presented my findings to him before posting to see if he would respond.

- FHB

FHB:

I have read your resposne to my question. I am frankly tired, and need to get to bed. So, I am not going to make a long response now.

Your link did not take me to the profile. It took me to the posting by JA. While there, I clicked on his profile link to see what I could learn about him. His profile clearly reveals that he has an "interesting" sense of humor. Yes, I think that his 72 virgins, and Chipendale daancer are examples of his making a joke, and/or exergareted statements. It simply raises a question in my mind as to when he might have done the same (possibly to a lessor degree) in his main post.

As I recall his post, he did not claim to be a personal witness to most of what he posted. Rather, as I remember it, he indicated that he had discovered the content of his post on the Internet. I would like to go back to the origional source--what he discovered on the Internet. It would be of value to me to see if his version is exergerated from the origional. It would also be of value to me so see what is actually claimed on the Internet, and the basis of the claim.

I have had fun many times by plugging names of people I knew into Internet search engines and seeing what I could find. The reality is that I would most often find "interesting" information which was about someone with the same name, but not the person that I would have in mind. I have sometimes, in a spirit of fun, contacted my friend with a printout just to see what they said.

Foundational to my request for the origional Internet source is my desire to see of the person named in the allegations is actually the same Mr. Joy that I know.

So, I ask again: Give me the origional Internet source. Let me check it out. It looks like what JA posted is 2nd, 3rd, or some other hand account. I am not going to comment on something that is that far down the distribution line. At least not tonight.

Well, I have said my piece, I guess. So, I will await your response.

By the way: Yes, I am associated with Linda, and Mr. Joy. I am not offended by you naming me and asking em to respond. However, I do expect that I not be personally charged with positions that I have not taken. That was a general statement.

[fallible humanbe...]

FHB:
As I recall his post, he did not claim to be a personal witness to most of what he posted. Rather, as I remember it, he indicated that he had discovered the content of his post on the Internet.

Greg,

I am not sure but I think I see where the misunderstanding is. The line in the OP about there being interesting things on the Internet were my words and not those of JA. I prefaced the bulletpointed list in the OP with a short personal comment. The sections in the quote boxes are the content from JA.

In those two posts he points to personal experience and seems to indicate that he knows a number of other individuals personally who have had similar experiences. JA's posts are my references to the issue. There are no other sites, that I am aware of, where these claims have been made.

I am tired as well and ready to call it a night. I hope this clears things up.

Here is the L I N K to JA's posts

and here is the L I N K to the post by the board admin that sparked his response and that he references via a link in his first post (you will see that it is taken directly from Gailon's web site.)

- FHB

This post has been edited by fallible humanbeing: Mar 27 2007, 08:57 PM

[Aletheia]

FHB,

I have to agree with you on the content of John Alfke's profile. I can't see where a wry sense of humor would undermine the credibility of his two posts.

While he does mention that he has personal experience with GAJ not paying rent, as you highlighted, it still leaves the majority of the claims unverified. If you have any connection to this man, I would ask you to encourage him to provide verification or, unfortunately, the whole thing begins to look like a ploy, or at the least a grudge statement.

Regarding your last paragraph,

PB

Hi PB,

While I don't know or understand why it looks like a ploy or grudge statement to you, surely we can agree that J.A. appears to support Linda, to post under his own name, and to be a realtor.

I am more interested in his personal claim that G.A. Joy tried to pay his overdue rent with a check from a EGW trust fund he[Joy] was managing, then in his personal claim that Joy just didn't pay rent period. Reason being, and I know people don't like me mentioning it, but he's a convicted embezzler who claims he did nothing wrong.

To me the attempt to pay rent with a EGW trust fund check is very questionable, and I would think that an answer should be forthcoming, as in "no that never happened" or "yes it did, and here's why it was ok.."

J.A.'s secondary claim (to me) "Joy didn't pay rent , well, I like to give the benefit of the doubt, There may be legit, or understandable reasons for that. Bad times, tragedies, emergencies and things can happen to us all. What I am saying is perhaps Joy couldn't pay. Again a short explanation shoulld clear it up, if that's the case, and surely J.A. would be aware of these extenuating circumstances, if Joy offered them as an excuse or reason at the time.

I emailed Joy immediatly as soon as this was posted and Bob didn't appear to know how to answer, and asked me to e-mail him instead. Joy hasn't replied to me at all. I think I saw where you claimed you had emailed someone also- twice.

I can't remember if you referred to Joy or Alfke? and frankly, I am too tired to go back and reread posts to find out.

So, have you recieved anything about this from either of them, or any other?

I guess if it comes down to it, there are probably civil records regarding this, if it's true, and Alfke could probably point us to them, or they could be checked out even wiithout him..

But as Joy was so upfront (immediatly) about his position regarding the embezzling cases, when that surfaced, you would think he would be the same here.
Again,

Course if it doesn't come out here, some day soon, all will be known, and that truly will be a great day.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Mar 27 2007, 10:06 PM