Mr Joy's Creditability, Owner of save3abn.com Options

[Pickle]

What's a EGW trust fund? Gailon didn't know, and I sure don't know.

[ex3ABNemployee]

Can you also say that it wasn't from a family member of the Sheltons as well? Not Ronnie, Teresa, Kenny, or any of the rest?

Good question, Bob. I am in receipt of some emails written to someone else about me that contain some very inflammatory statements. I've been waiting for the right time to bring them up.

If the authorship of the aforementioned email is the same as the emails I have, it definitely makes some pieces of the puzzle come together.

[Pickle]

Can I get copies?

[ex3ABNemployee]

Can I get copies?

Sure thing.

[sonshineonme]

Sure thing.

Hey Duane, you are invited to the roasting too...wanna join us?

Well, I was thinking, we still need drinks....I know we should have some kool-aid on hand for those that really like it...oh, and what goes well with medusa? NW, any ideas?

May I bring my friends Johann, WB, Beartrap, sister, Ralph, HOTY and I know there are more...oh, I know Bob and Gailon would like to be there....I will check with Greeney and Jnana15, Pete, Gregory, my, the list grows and grows....I keep thinking of people....should be a fine time!

I am inviting you too Mo, I think you would fit in nicely!
And Carmel, and PaperTiger, Hersh, CSDA, and well just anyone one wants to! It's an open grill!

[Hersheys99]

I would love to come too sonshine!! I think it would be a grand time & would love to meet everyone! Of course I'll bring lots of chocolate with me.

[beartrap]

If there is a potluck or a buffet line, don't get in front of the bear or someone will get hurt. Bears have to fatten up for Winter and Winter is coming... in about 10 months.

BTW... I like Fritos, blackbeans with lots of cumin, Cilantro, lettuce, tomatoes, guacamole, jalapeno rings, a sauce of Lime, Habanero, and Cilantro. Add brown rice and we are happy. That is real haystacks.

[Snoopy]

If there is a potluck or a buffet line, don't get in front of the bear or someone will get hurt. Bears have to fatten up for Winter and Winter is coming... in about 10 months.

BTW... I like Fritos, blackbeans with lots of cumin, Cilantro, lettuce, tomatoes, guacamole, jalapeno rings, a sauce of Lime, Habanero, and Cilantro. Add brown rice and we are happy. That is real haystacks.

no onions???

[Johann]

no onions???

Why not garlic? Did you ever hear of a town in the Far East where they eat lots of garlic. Nobody ever gets sick. And then they never have any visitors!

[Aletheia]

What's a EGW trust fund? Gailon didn't know, and I sure don't know.

hmmm...

Coming from a EG White apologist that's rather suprising, but if that's true then you might want to review her will. It's on the estate website. It's been awhile since I read it myself, but I believe the only trust funds have to do with education of her grandchildren, and other worthy individuals.

[Clay]

hmmm...

Coming from a EG White apologist that's rather suprising, but if that's true then you might want to review her will. It's on the estate website. It's been awhile since I read it myself, but I believe the only trust funds have to do with education of her grandchildren, and other worthy individuals.

Cindy stated in post #138 of this thread:

And I also confess, I am part of a coordinated effort to get to the truth, and to throw out the trash.

Course we might disagree about what trash is, one man's garbage is another man's treasure.

Cindy has admitted that she is part of a coordinated effort to get to the "truth." It is apparent from the posts those who share her view and are assisting in this coordinated effort. It is also apparent that their "effort" has resulted in more confusion and truth-bending, and as she herself has noted, "one man's garbage is another man's treasure...."

I would submit that in my opinion this coordinated effort has produced more garbage than treasure, more truth bending than truth....

That being the case, can garbage producers change their vocation and become successful treasure collectors?

[Observer]

Greg,

I am not sure but I think I see where the misunderstanding is. The line in the OP about there being interesting things on the Internet were my words and not those of JA. I prefaced the bulletpointed list in the OP with a short personal comment. The sections in the quote boxes are the content from JA.

In those two posts he points to personal experience and seems to indicate that he knows a number of other individuals personally who have had similar experiences. JA's posts are my references to the issue. There are no other sites, that I am aware of, where these claims have been made.

I am tired as well and ready to call it a night. I hope this clears things up.

Here is the L I N K to JA's posts

and here is the L I N K to the post by the board admin that sparked his response and that he references via a link in his first post (you will see that it is taken directly from Gailon's web site.)

- FHB

FHB:

Thank you for your response to me.

First, I would like to comment a little on proof:

Absolute proof, which is not a legal term, is a clear establishment of a fact. Legal documents are examples of such. As related to 3-ABN the legal documents relating to the divorce, and the separation agreement establish a set of legal facts that can not be controverted. Examples of such documents that relate to 3-ABN include the divorce decree, and the Separation Agreement. The divorce decree establishes a specific date when Danny and Linda were divorced. That decree could, as it was, be challenged as invalid. The court ruled the decree was valid, and the decree establishes that set of facts. So does the Separation Agreement. The meaning of its parts may be debated in litigated. In a legal ruling of its meaning and application, the documents still stands as establishing a set of facts.

Of course there are levels of proof that are much less convincing. The lowest level might be said to be that X is unsubstantiated.

In the legal arena they are generally three levels of proof.

Beyond reasonable doubt is the highest level of proof. This simply means that no reasonable doubt exists that something is a fact.

Preponderance of the evidence is the lowest standard of proof. It means that the evidence supports a certain decision by an amount greater than 50 per-cent. So, in theory, one might say that it is 51 % probable that X happened, and 49 % that it did not.

Clear and convincing is the standard that lies between preponderance of the evidence and beyond reasonable doubt.

As I relate to the issues raised in discussion regarding 3-ABN, I personally believe that the allegations range from unsubstantiated to much higher levels of proof. I have personally taken the position that Linda Shelton did not have a relationship with Dr. A that gave Danny Biblical grounds to divorce her. While I am aware that others disagree with that position, it is mine, and I have a high level of certainty that such is the case.

Frankly, I consider some comments that are made about Danny to be unsubstantiated.

I have reviewed again the comments made by John Alfke that you have referenced. Here are the major ones, as I see them:

1) Mr. Joy cheated 5 – 6 landlords out of their justly due rent.
2) Mr. Alfke was one such person who was cheated.
3) Mr. Joy cheated a bank out of its deserved mortgage payments which resulted in a foreclosure and a financial loss to that lending institution.
4) Mr. Joy is claimed to have paid, or attempted to pay, his rent with a check drawn on an EG White trust account. Mr. Alfke claims to have personal knowledge of this.

Now, I will comment on those allegations:

# 4: The claimed payment of rent from an E G White trust account: The fundamental question here to me is: Is this believable?

I find it hard to believe that Mr. Joy would have anything to do with an E G White trust account. Those are generally handled by the E G White Estate. I do not find it easy to believe the EGW Estate would place Mr. Joy in charge of a trust account.

In addition, trust accounts are carefully audited. Mr. Joy would have known that if he were to do such if would be discovered. I do not believe that Mr. Joy is that stupid. So, I can only assume that either the allegation is wrong, or the Mr. Joy did have valid reason to do such.

# 1: The claim is made. But, there is clearly nothing in the post that documents, or even specifies the facts of the allegation. I note that the one who posted is uncertain as to whether 5 or 6 landlords were cheated. O. K. That is honesty. Thank you for that. But, it suggests that more facts should be discovered. Perhaps Mr. Alfke could provide us with sworn statements made by the 5 or 6 landlords. Such would increase the credibility of the allegation. Perhaps there are other legal records?

# 2: Mr. Alfke claims to be a victim of such. O. K. That claim is elevated in validity as it is claimed to be a 1st person account. However, it is a blanket claim. To be accepted, Mr. Alfke needs to provide more of the facts, and document what he says. For example, if he obtained a judgment against Mr. Joy that would clearly elevate the credibility of the allegation.

# 3: This one is a very broad statement. To say one cheated is to imply criminal conduct that could result in prosecution. Were criminal charges filed? Was there a conviction? If not, it may be that it, if it actually happened, was a case of a financial reverse that caused the lending institution to foreclose. NOTE: Such is not criminal. Are you going to say that every homeless person has committed a crime because they were unable to pay their mortgage? I find this one to be somewhat like the comments that Mr. Alfke made in his bio. He likes to state things (72 virgins, etc) in terms to get people’s attention. He just may exaggerate

[awesumtenor]

He just may exaggerate

Where I come from, such exaggerations are called 'lies'

In His service,
Mr. J

[Clay]

Where I come from, such exaggerations are called 'lies'

In His service,
Mr. J

truth-bending.....

[awesumtenor]

truth-bending.....

That truth aint bent; it's broken and left in pieces on the floor.

In His service,
Mr. J