Can One Defy The 3abn Board & Get Away With It?, Linda, Tommy, Danny, & Brandy Options

[Seraphim7]

I actually flew over there during the eruption. There is a tremendous power in such a volcano.

That is real power. Not just smoke and mirrors.

[PeacefulBe]

PB:

Could you give me the URL for those pics? Or tell me where blind people like me can find it. Sometimes I cannot see the forest for the trees.

Thanks

Fran,

Here you go:

www.quiggs.wayblur.com

PB

The above is the website the url refers to. That is where I went to see the other photos.

The url is:

http://quiggs.wayblur.com/archives/mount%2...lens%20blow.jpg

The url will just take you to the photo, not the web site.

[SoulEspresso]

Quick notes from the peanut gallery ...

...I've been away for a few weeks due to moving, so it was interesting to come back here and read some of the threads in one fell swoop.

I note with interest how nice we all can be when it comes to teaching someone how to post a picture. Would that the same courtesy be extended to everyone at all times, even if we don't agree on what's going on at 3ABN.

Here's a question for those reading this thread ... what's this situation doing to your Christian experience?

It would be wrong to extrapolate what goes on in my heart to everyone on the boards, but while I definitely missed the fellowship at BSDA, it was good for me not to be reading about 3ABN. My homepage is set to the theology threads, but I seriously lack self-restraint these days ... here I am, posting in the 3ABN threads ...

*sigh* I have to admire Pickle's restraint ... some of the stuff that's gotten thrown at him here has been abominable ... What makes it worse is that even people defending 3ABN can be civil when they choose ...

Enough of my own 1:30AM digressions. So. This thread started off with the double standard of how some individuals can defy their boards (Danny) while others aren't even given a hearing.... so can we continue the discussion, even if we disagree, without the acrimony? Every person on this forum is a person for whom Christ died ... even those we find terribly wrongheaded and whose motives we distrust.

If it comes up, yes, I have failed to be entirely respectful of certain individuals posting here. I am sorry if that was you ...

[Noahswife]

So. This thread started off with the double standard of how some individuals can defy their boards (Danny) while others aren't even given a hearing.... so can we continue the discussion, even if we disagree, without the acrimony? Every person on this forum is a person for whom Christ died ... even those we find terribly wrongheaded and whose motives we distrust.

SE,

Welcome back Your analysis and comments are missed when you are not here. I hope that you and your family experience many wonderful memories in your new home.

Continuing the discussion and remembering that Danny has dual roles at 3abn, I wonder, like Tommy Shelton's rehire, if issues related to the Shelton family that are employed at 3abn are ever brought to the Board for consideration and if not, why the Chairman of the Board has not done so in situations where their choices could affect the public image of 3abn and its ministry.

This post has been edited by Noahswife: Apr 3 2007, 08:19 AM

[PeacefulBe]

SE,

I have wondered where you have been. Hope your move has been a positive one!

You raise many good points in your post. I think it is important to keep our Christian experience in the forefront while discussing the issues around 3abn. It is so easy to get irritated by something someone says, be cross back at them and forget that they are one of the precious souls that our Savior chose to die for. I know I have gone that direction a few times myself and it has caused me to step back and try to put things back into perspective.

Sometimes I do wish I could step away from these issues but I have such a burden on my heart for Tommy Shelton and his alleged victims as well as for Danny who has been instrumental in the attempt to cover up the behavior and, in the process, has tainted the view of our important, lifesaving message in the eyes of some folk.

Not all of the victims or their families can separate the SDA church from 3abn as Duane Clem has done. If not for Bob Pickle's work to expose the abuse being minimized and condoned by Danny and others, it is a strong possibility that Duane would not have stepped out of his own denial about the abuse. It has been such a joy to see him beginning to heal because of this investigation and to watch how his involvement here on BSDA has affected his outlook on our denomination. If his healing is the only victory that comes out of this process, it will have been worth it all!

If you feel that being involved here on the 3abn forum is not good for your own walk with our Lord, then you have to follow your heart. It will be a sad thing, IMO, because you have brought so much to this process through your perspective.

SE,

Welcome back Your analysis and comments are missed when you are not here. I hope that you and your family experience many wonderful memories in your new home.

Continuing the discussion and remembering that Danny has dual roles at 3abn, I wonder, like Tommy Shelton's rehire, if issues related to the Shelton family that are employed at 3abn are ever brought to the Board for consideration and if not, why the Chairman of the Board has not done so in situations where their choices could affect the public image of 3abn and it's ministry.

NW,
This is a point I have often wondered about. Are the Chairman and BoD even made aware of these types of issues that could have such an impact on the reputation of the ministry or do they deal only with the business side of 3abn?

[Noahswife]

This is a point I have often wondered about. Are the Chairman and BoD even made aware of these types of issues that could have such an impact on the reputation of the ministry or do they deal only with the business side of 3abn?

PB,

So, for me, that bring us then back to the question of:

What is the Board's fiduciary duty in a "not for profit" business (and let's not spin at this time what Judge Rowe found in her decision and get off topic) that claims it is a religious entity? Secondly, what is the responsibility of the Chairman in bringing these matters to the Board if he questions the actions of the President? Is there any indication the Chairman ever has on any matter?

[Pickle]

I'll say that I have twice spoken with the board chairman and requested the privilege of speaking with the board. Both times he's said we're going about this the wrong way, but then he maintains that it's too late to talk with the board.

Gailon thinks it's always been too late, that Walt has never wanted us to speak with the board.

Yesterday I sent an email to Walt asking him how I can go over his head and request the privilege of speaking with the board.

[Noahswife]

I'll say that I have twice spoken with the board chairman and requested the privilege of speaking with the board. Both times he's said we're going about this the wrong way, but then he maintains that it's too late to talk with the board.

Gailon thinks it's always been too late, that Walt has never wanted us to speak with the board.

Yesterday I sent an email to Walt asking him how I can go over his head and request the privilege of speaking with the board.

Bob, my first question would be can any Board member invite someone to speak before the full board or could they be blocked by the Chairman? Would past Board members have an answer to this question which does not seem to be one that would be precluded by any confidentiality issues.

[LaurenceD]

I have the same question, NW, what are the powers of the members? Usually (but this isn't usual I know) it takes the request of two board members to get an item on the agenda. This is to insure the item will get a motion and a second...so time won't be wasted if there's not going to be a second.

I think it's like Observer noted a few days ago. The board, with most religious organizations, tends to "rubber stamp" everything brought to the table. Who brings items to the table? Most likely the General Manager, or the president of the organization acting through the GM. The only way for an organization to have some 'checks and balances' within the system is to have board members that are elected--and that doesn't really guarantee anything, but it helps. I'd like to know how the board members are chosen at 3abn, or if they are appointed--and by whom. And if the board members are appointed, or when they are replaced, is that appointment (or replacement) subject to approval of the rest of the board members?

I think it's a long shot to even speak to the board--expecting some kind of fairness--if the board is only there to insulate and rubber stamp the owner's agenda.



EDIT NOTE: Of course someone can be invited to give a presentation...where no action is taken.

[PeacefulBe]

NW, Bob, LD,

These are all compelling questions! It would be nice if a representative of the BoD would be willing to venture in here and provide us with some answers.

PB

[LaurenceD]

NW, Bob, LD,

These are all compelling questions! It would be nice if a representative of the BoD would be willing to venture in here and provide us with some answers.

We may have one already...or two or three. Who knows, we may even have a quorum! And if that's the case, "discussions" on the internet, carried on by board members, has been interpreted by the courts as violating the Open Public Meetings Act--heehee--as if there's any accountability here (or there).

[Clay]

NW, Bob, LD,

These are all compelling questions! It would be nice if a representative of the BoD would be willing to venture in here and provide us with some answers.

PB

why? they have not been forthcoming thus far, what makes you think they will now? In fact why are you (generic you) still believing that a board who took the action it did can be trusted to tell the truth.... as my mother use to say, "why ask the truth from a known liar?" That is insane.... and suggests that you (generic you) want to be lied to.... but that's just me....

[princessdi]

Now, see this is what I am saying. If that same board did not see the conflict in interest at the beginning of this mess, and are yet and still lying for Danny, why would we want to hear anything they have to say?

why? they have not been forthcoming thus far, what makes you think they will now? In fact why are you (generic you) still believing that a board who took the action it did can be trusted to tell the truth.... as my mother use to say, "why ask the truth from a known liar?" That is insane.... and suggests that you (generic you) want to be lied to.... but that's just me....

[Clay]

Now, see this is what I am saying. If that same board did not see the conflict in interest at the beginning of this mess, and are yet and still lying for Danny, why would we want to hear anything they have to say?

I mean why are some waiting on the Board of 3abn, Danny, or the church to do the right thing... They AREN'T..... so its time to tinkle or get off the potty....

Go on the offensive and tell everything you know, sparing no one... or.... leave it alone and get busy living..... but... that's just me....

[watchbird]

NW, Bob, LD,

These are all compelling questions! It would be nice if a representative of the BoD would be willing to venture in here and provide us with some answers.

PB

I am definitely not a "representative of the BoD". I have, however, repeatedly seen the affirmation from various sources... including more than one board member.... that "The board does not micro-manage the day-to-day operations of 3ABN.".... and/or, as in a letter I have in my possession from a board member.... "The board does not micro-manage the functioning of 3ABN."

In this letter, which comments on a specific instance (not related to Linda btw), it is plainly stated that the discussion of the board was after decisions had already been made by "management" and that there was "no decision taken by the board that would change any decision already taken by the management." In context the implication was very strong that this was standard practice and that one should not expect the board to rescind or alter any action already taken "by management".

Since we have had, at other places on BSDA, some accounts of how Danny chooses and manages the board, I think we can gain a pretty clear picture of how these are done... and of how little chance there is that any member of the board could have any real influence on the actions of the "management" of 3abn.