Lawsuits Filed Options

[SoulEspresso]

Well said.
Well said, Di!
Praise God for your testimony!!

If more folks are affected like this by the 3ABN scandal, it's well worth all the bad publicity. We are told that the work will be finished by personal effort. That means that we all must be awake and involved. Although we may help out ministries that are doing a good work, witnessing by proxy is not really a viable option. The world needs our individual witness; they need to see what God has done in our lives.

Witnessing by proxy .... wow. I agree, mozart.

I just got an e-mail from a conference official outside my union who pointed out that both 3ABN and AF exist because people believe they should leave evangelism to the "professionals," and shirk their God-given duty *cough* I mean opportunity to share.

[awesumtenor]

I just got an e-mail from a conference official outside my union who pointed out that both 3ABN and AF exist because people believe they should leave evangelism to the "professionals," and shirk their God-given duty *cough* I mean opportunity to share.

Which begs the question of how do we unmake Christianity from the spectator sport it is to the all-hands effort, priesthood of believers that God designed it to be?

In His service,
Mr. J

[Rosyroi]

Which begs the question of how do we unmake Christianity from the spectator sport it is to the all-hands effort, priesthood of believers that God designed it to be?

In His service,
Mr. J

I understand Bob Falkenberg is looking for volunteers. He accepts folk of all ages. Just offering a suggestion.
Rosyroi

[mystery- man]

It is my belief that neither Af or 3abn exist because the laymen are not doing their work. I believe to a large part they exist to make sure the average individual does not do the work of the Lord. Let me tell you a story of someone I knew that took the great commission seriously and decided to spend vacation time 6weeks to do evangalism in a dark county. There were no ethnic churches in the area so he sent a letter with a outline of the sermons to the white congregation in hopes that they would help out. He also sent a outline of the sermon and the sources he would be using as to eliminate the perception of being a offshoot. His main source was the amazing facts study lessons. For six straight weeks he preached and taught which resulted in 8 baptisms held in the area Seventhday adventist churches. He even tried mightily to found another church in the city he was at. In the end the church sent a pastor to tell the new members to stop giving bible studies and stop using the white material (which were the amazing fact material) to evangalize.


Many will probably find this hard to believe but they do not want the nominal pew adventist to start evangalizing. Actually, they want you to simply be content with paying your tithe and not stirring up things. The real truth preached with power will bring persecution which is not at all what they want. They simply want to have a semblance of righteousness so they can die rich or happy and still go to heaven. I know these words might seem harsh and judgmental but get on fire and believe me they will extinguish you quickly. Our church is about survival not the coming of the lord Jesus. It is about our hospitals and our churches and our institutions and showing our palaces to the world as it were. But this is just the beginning of the downfall and it is needed before we can be free from the slavery of institutionalism and can finally be about our fathers business and the coming of the mighty one Jesus.

[inga]

I understand Bob Falkenberg is looking for volunteers. He accepts folk of all ages. Just offering a suggestion.
Rosyroi

It's much bigger than Bob Folkenberg. See http://www.global-evangelism.org/.

It's true: Anyone who is an Adventist in good standing (must give pastor as reference) can go preach anywhere in the world. Usually it's much easier in a foreign, possibly third-world country. That experience generates both confidence and enthusiasm that spills over at home. And that's precisely the plan.

I recommend the program. We've used it in our own church. It cost a lot less than the Amazing Facts evangelistic program we had the same year, and it was more effective. (The AF program cost $35,000, and our own cost a few hundred $'s) And we've seen the difference it made in our son who preached in another church.

See if you can attend a "boot camp" anywhere within your driving distance.

Folkenberg's emphasis is to get back to our apostolic roots, where every member is an evangelist, rather than a spectator. And, according to the evidence/results I see, God is blessing the program abundantly!!

get on fire and believe me they will extinguish you quickly.

Nope, MM. No one can extinguish the fire that the Lord kindles!! As long as we're connected to Him, no fire extinguisher will do the job!!!

This post has been edited by inga: Apr 27 2007, 12:52 AM

[Fran]

Mystery- man;

Please expound on your thoughts here. I think I may be getting your drift. I am speaking of your last sentences, not this person's bad experiences with the church, but those about the church.

Who are "They" that will extinguish me quickly?

Why do you say our church is about survival?

Can the church be about more than one thing? Christ was.

The downfall of who and what?

Institutionalism - Please define.

Is 3ABN an Institution?

Is Amazing Facts an Institution?

What about Weimar?

What is Remnant Press?

What about ASI Missions?

What about our Independent Medical Institutions?

What about our Universities?

What about our beliefs?

What do we do when "one" wants to control it all?

What is our responsibility to the church, if any?

Does the church teach and preach the truth?

Your post is actually very loaded. I would appreciate you unpacking it for me. I found this part very interesting. Maybe I have had some of these thoughts recently

[inga]

What about those two lawsuits that Danny Shelton said were filed?

Has anyone been served yet?

I notice that http://www.save3abn.com is posting lots of new material. Apparently no one responsible for that site has been intimidated.

This post has been edited by inga: Apr 27 2007, 01:20 AM

[shaddo]

I've been rereading a book about Christ, called The Man Nobody Knows, written in 1925. Great book.



I keep thing about how different Christ was, and his mission. His kingdom was not about rich donors, fighters, suers, and the smug. Somehow, I just can't imagine Christ in his new pickup, divorced, with guns, dressed in a back western longhorn blazer, armed with the moneybags of Carnegie, driving out to get on his new jet to go preach the gospel, and to sue those who offended his pride.

And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. -Mat 5

Oh ya and it needs to be said that Jesus was speaking of all "undergarments" with the transliterated word "cloak".

[Observer]

What about those two lawsuits that Danny Shelton said were filed?

Has anyone been served yet?

I notice that http://www.save3abn.com is posting lots of new material. Apparently no one responsible for that site has been intimidated.

I am not aware of anyone being served. But, if there has been a last minute change, it may have happened.

It should be noted that there would be a time lag between a lawsuit beign filed, and the papers being served.

[PrincessDrRe]

Unless of course it is a goose

AH, you got me!

duck... goose... whichever

Do you feel the same way about Tommy?

(Ok, dannyscribes. I said it for you. No need for you to do it.)

Excellent usage of werds per the lang-west.....

Yes, I know. I just wanted to beat them to saying it.

Sometimes you have to laugh to keep from screaming.

Ain't it de truf....

[b]Dis iz jist fer us ignurnt hillbillies dat kaint unnerstand deez thangz

Case Information
Case 2005D30 Last Update 04/25/2007 Last Upload 04/25/2007 @ 04:30
Case Category Civil Case Type - Subtype D - 151 Divorce - Dissolution of Marriage
Other Litigants
Role Name
PlaintiffOrPetitioner SHELTON, LINDA SUE
Litigant Information
DefendantOrRespondent SHELTON, DANNY LEE

Excellent lang-west usage of the kuntree ver-nack-u-lar per PDR.
Your usage of the ex-tend-da-ma-did sentence is also noted. This will be rememberededed for quite some time and conversated (not really a real word yall) about for a long 'o time to comes.

What about those two lawsuits that Danny Shelton said were filed?

Has anyone been served yet?

I ain't been served....

[erik]

It is my belief that neither Af or 3abn exist because the laymen are not doing their work. I believe to a large part they exist to make sure the average individual does not do the work of the Lord. Let me tell you a story of someone I knew that took the great commission seriously and decided to spend vacation time 6weeks to do evangalism in a dark county. There were no ethnic churches in the area so he sent a letter with a outline of the sermons to the white congregation in hopes that they would help out. He also sent a outline of the sermon and the sources he would be using as to eliminate the perception of being a offshoot. His main source was the amazing facts study lessons. For six straight weeks he preached and taught which resulted in 8 baptisms held in the area Seventhday adventist churches. He even tried mightily to found another church in the city he was at. In the end the church sent a pastor to tell the new members to stop giving bible studies and stop using the white material (which were the amazing fact material) to evangalize.
Many will probably find this hard to believe but they do not want the nominal pew adventist to start evangalizing. Actually, they want you to simply be content with paying your tithe and not stirring up things. The real truth preached with power will bring persecution which is not at all what they want. They simply want to have a semblance of righteousness so they can die rich or happy and still go to heaven. I know these words might seem harsh and judgmental but get on fire and believe me they will extinguish you quickly. Our church is about survival not the coming of the lord Jesus. It is about our hospitals and our churches and our institutions and showing our palaces to the world as it were. But this is just the beginning of the downfall and it is needed before we can be free from the slavery of institutionalism and can finally be about our fathers business and the coming of the mighty one Jesus.

MM,

Now you are starting to talk about the true reason, this whole shelton mess got started in the first place, i can say amen.

Erik

Which begs the question of how do we unmake Christianity from the spectator sport it is to the all-hands effort, priesthood of believers that God designed it to be?

In His service,
Mr. J

I know for myself that only happens when i truly see for brief seconds the the true depth of Jesus love for me, then i am compelled to share this with others. But I find that Satan will go to great lengths to try to put be back to sleep.

But Praise God that His compelling Love is Stronger then Satan sleeping pill.

Erik

[Observer]

In my beginning post, I stated that Danny Shelton had publicly stated that lawsuits had been filed against two people.

Some have wondered what is happening: Under typical rules of proceedure, the party that is expected to have filed those lawsuits has 20 days to serve the defendants.

So, if the lawsuits were filed on April 19, the defendents can be served up through May May 9, 2007.

But, we do not konw the actual date that the lawsuits were filed.

[SoulEspresso]

Wow, what an interesting thread. Mystery-Man, you may well be right in saying that AF and 3ABN exist to keep the laypeople in their place. I do not believe that the Adventist church (structure, administrators) wants its members engaged in serious Bible study, either, for the same reasons--they prefer the status quo in doctrine as well as in practice.

Having non-employees "do the work" takes it out of their control. The upside of that is that it keeps complete crackpots from spreading their own version of "the message." (And the reason we get crackpots is because we make Adventists by appealing to their arrogance--"Be the remnant! Be special! Be better *cough* I mean more true to the Bible than other Christians!")

Rosyroi, the ShareHim initiative by the Folkenbergs you mentioned does have one very good thing going for it--it's non-employees giving the message. For that reason we're doing it in our church. There are two major problems with it, though:

One, it's doctrinal monoculture (i.e. cultivating only one way of looking at our theology). It takes the prophetic scenario and hammers it in, especially if the congregation gets into the habit of doing it every year as the boot camps want them to do. This is a problem because using unfulfilled prophecy to win converts is very dangerous. What we believe stands on firmer ground if we don't rely primarily on the most arcane and difficult passages of Scripture to build on.

Two, it comes from the same mindset, IMO, that created A-Facts and 3ABN. For Adventists in general and those organizations in particular, evangelism means just getting people across a line (or lines) of decision regarding doctrine and certain specific lifestyle issues. Biblical evangelism--discipleship, to use another church-word--seems to me more about getting people into a love relationship with God and teaching them to observe everything Jesus taught--much more involved and time-consuming, and something that cannot rely on canned lectures and slideshows.

Mr. J, I'm wrestling with that question right now. It's about learning to be like Jesus and teaching others to do the same--the Great Commission is about "making disciples," which means we have to be disciples first. Turning that into concrete action is the challenge.

[YogusBearus]

And Wow! What a great post SE. I would love to belong to a church with the kind of leadership you're showing.

Evangelism and discipleship are not two separate responsibilities of the church but rather two parts of the same process. Jesus clearly stated we are to "go and make disciples," implying that evangelism is a part of the discipleship process. Have we totally missed the discipleship part of the equation?

-bear

Wow, what an interesting thread. Mystery-Man, you may well be right in saying that AF and 3ABN exist to keep the laypeople in their place. I do not believe that the Adventist church (structure, administrators) wants its members engaged in serious Bible study, either, for the same reasons--they prefer the status quo in doctrine as well as in practice.

Having non-employees "do the work" takes it out of their control. The upside of that is that it keeps complete crackpots from spreading their own version of "the message." (And the reason we get crackpots is because we make Adventists by appealing to their arrogance--"Be the remnant! Be special! Be better *cough* I mean more true to the Bible than other Christians!")

Rosyroi, the ShareHim initiative by the Folkenbergs you mentioned does have one very good thing going for it--it's non-employees giving the message. For that reason we're doing it in our church. There are two major problems with it, though:

One, it's doctrinal monoculture (i.e. cultivating only one way of looking at our theology). It takes the prophetic scenario and hammers it in, especially if the congregation gets into the habit of doing it every year as the boot camps want them to do. This is a problem because using unfulfilled prophecy to win converts is very dangerous. What we believe stands on firmer ground if we don't rely primarily on the most arcane and difficult passages of Scripture to build on.

Two, it comes from the same mindset, IMO, that created A-Facts and 3ABN. For Adventists in general and those organizations in particular, evangelism means just getting people across a line (or lines) of decision regarding doctrine and certain specific lifestyle issues. Biblical evangelism--discipleship, to use another church-word--seems to me more about getting people into a love relationship with God and teaching them to observe everything Jesus taught--much more involved and time-consuming, and something that cannot rely on canned lectures and slideshows.

Mr. J, I'm wrestling with that question right now. It's about learning to be like Jesus and teaching others to do the same--the Great Commission is about "making disciples," which means we have to be disciples first. Turning that into concrete action is the challenge.

[mozart]

QUOTE(mystery- man @ Apr 27 2007, 12:45 AM)
get on fire and believe me they will extinguish you quickly.

Nope, MM. No one can extinguish the fire that the Lord kindles!! As long as we're connected to Him, no fire extinguisher will do the job!!!

you are right inga but i think what MM meant is that the general attitude of most congregations these days is to frown on people who are excited about their faith and want to get busy. i think, sadly, we know how appathetic most church members are. none of us are doing what we should at the level we should, especially the churches as a whole. i'm speaking in general terms as i think a busy "evangelistic and faithfully SDA believing" church is close to extinct. anyone else? might need to start another thread on this topic.