How Do Local Thompsonville Residents Feel About 3abn?..., and how does this affect their opinion of the SDA church? Options

[watchbird]

In the thread "What He Said! (db On Commandment #7), Doug B. on Adultery", post #48, LaurenceD raised the first of the two questions in this thread title, saying, "Does anyone know how local Thompsonville residents really feel about 3abn?"

IMO this question, along with its companion one... How does their relationship with Danny Shelton and 3abn affect their view of the SDA church as a whole?.... deserves to be considered under a thread specifically devoted to them.

These questions have been raised on BSDA in previous times, but always within some specific context which causes the comments to be so scattered that it is extremely difficult to find them and form a coherent picture of the answers. So I invite those who have previously made comments in this area to return now and share what your observations have been. But since some are not currently posting, perhaps others will find and bring the specific urls to their comments so we can have those all gathered in this one place.

For starters, I'll bring Laurence D's full question from the thread in which he made it, followed by a couple responses to that.

Does anyone know how local Thompsonville residents really feel about 3abn?

It sounds like the community's negative perception of the compound was based on 3abn trying to get out of paying it's fair share of taxes, not racial issues. The judge put it this way: In a letter attached to the 2000 year application, the Village of Thompsonville adamantly (emphasis in original attachment) opposed the requested exemption. The Board of Review of Franklin County, the Cave township supervisor, and the Cave Township Board had a similar reaction.

To which I responded....

The problems between Thompsonville residents and 3abn go back a lot farther and are much more widespread than merely the property tax issues.

Duane Clem, PJMusic, Beartrap, and others on BSDA who are or have been residents of T'ville could give a lot of first hand testimony from the community side of things. But before you do try to contact them privately...."do your homework" right here on the board to see what they have already said.

You'll need the search function and patience... but here is one sample.....


Dig, dig, dig..... ...... and keep digging....

And I will add here, that clicking on "sample..... " above or here will take you to a statement made by Beartap last year (May 2006) in response to a question raised by Clay.

And I certainly agree with the positition he took there... that there is no one better qualified to answer that than are Thompsonville residents themselves.


Aletheia, though has an interesting view of going direct to the people who are directly involved...

And if you only consult those who have an axe to grind, you know what you will find before even looking, so why bother???

..... .... .... You are so funny Cindy....


Lessee... that means that we should never consult anyone who has been victimized so that they have a negative view of Danny Shelton and his gang.... OK.... ... Got it....


So now you have explained your own criteria as to whom to "consult" for your information... only those who are the abusers of victims.... Thank you very much...... .....Now we understand a little bit more as to why it seems that you never see anything but one side of any story... and which side that is. Very interesting.


But for those of us who think that we will get the most accurate information from victims and/or those who have personal acquaintance with those who are either victims or fear becoming victims.... again I invite area residents and/or those who are acquainted with area residents to give us their comments on the questions raised in this thread title.

Let the testimonies begin......

........... ..........

[Aletheia]

Aletheia, though has an interesting view of going direct to the people who are directly involved...

And if you only consult those who have an axe to grind, you know what you will find before even looking, so why bother???

..... .... .... You are so funny Cindy....


Lessee... that means that we should never consult anyone who has been victimized so that they have a negative view of Danny Shelton and his gang.... OK.... ... Got it....

No, that is not what I meant at all. I didn't say that, you did. "Victims" and "those with an axe to grind" are not the same thing.

There are some here who have an agenda to bring 3ABN down, an axe to grind. They profess the opposite with their mouth, but their works prove different. Everything they say is negative, those they talk of are always portrayed in the worst possible light, and every evil motive and intent attatched to any incident they relate.

And although their claims and words are unending, more often then not, what they say can not be substantiated and contains no evidence, and involves evil surmising, if they do include any details which can be verified, what they say is even proven false, many times by those who really are directly involved and do have the evidence to support what they say...

Therefore I, having read their writings, and found them untrustworthy, will not depend on them to tell me what Thompsonville thinks of 3ABN. It would be an unbalanced and warped view.

Of course that's your view, so I understand you will want to advance that here where those with that view are the majority.

But this small little world does not represent Adventism or any one else really outside these forums..

So carry on with your work, and do as you are compelled to.

All, the readers and lurkers are free to judge and decide for themselves.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: May 10 2007, 07:58 AM

[awesumtenor]

There are some here who have an agenda to bring 3ABN down, an axe to grind. They profess the opposite with their mouth, but their works say the opposite. Everything they say is negative, those they talk of are always portrayed in the worst possible light, and every evil motive and intent attatched to any incident they relate, and although their claims and words are unending.

More often then not, what they say can not be substantiated and contains no evidence, and involves evil surmising, if they include any details which can be verified, it's proven false. Therefore I, having read their writings, will not depend on them to tell me what Thompsonville thinks of 3ABN. It would be an unbalanced and warped view.

There are some here who have an agenda to bring Linda Shelton down, an axe to grind. They profess the opposite with their mouth, but their works say the opposite. Everything they say is negative, those they talk of are always portrayed in the worst possible light, and every evil motive and intent attatched to any incident they relate, and although their claims and words are unending.

More often then not, what they say can not be substantiated and contains no evidence, and involves evil surmising, if they include any details which can be verified, it's proven false. Therefore I, having read their writings, will not depend on them to tell me what any should think of Linda Shelton. It would be an unbalanced and warped view.

In His service,
Mr. J

[LaurenceD]

In the thread "What He Said! (db On Commandment #7), Doug B. on Adultery", post #48, LaurenceD raised the first of the two questions in this thread title, saying, "Does anyone know how local Thompsonville residents really feel about 3abn?"

....

but here is one sample.....

Thanks for that, wb. I think I'll post Beartrap's comments over here...from that link.

Clay, its not just the money to pay people off. Any individual who would dare to do as you have suggested will be publicly torn to pieces on 3ABN, Danny and his lawyers etc. will call their friends and family telling stories and claiming to have evidence of stuff, and we all know that Danny NEVER lets go. years later he will still be hounding that persons steps. He has done it to so many of us already that it is a well known, established fact with the 3ABN insiders, and many of the top church leadership know the same thing. Talk to the local people in the Thompsonville/West Frankfort community. They will say the same thing and tell you that it goes back 4 or 5 decades. They will also tell you that 3ABN is a cult commune and that any contact with 3ABN is conspicuously avoided by most locals. They will tell you that 3ABN and Danny Shelton have demonstrated beyond a doubt that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is a cult.

Open invitation. Come to Thompsonville and eat dinner at the Thompsonville Cafe, and just ask the other diners about 3ABN and Danny. Go to West Frankfort and have dinner at Hungrys on W. Main, and ask. Go to the barbershops, the lodges, the local churches of any denomination, the library, and ask. Ask the Summers family who donated the first two acres of property to Danny for 3ABN what they think about that donation now. Come on out here and ask.

Having asked them personally you will gerenally get an ear full. But ask if they would be willing to go public with this info and see what their reaction is. Ask them why they are so afraid of Danny; too afraid to go public. Yes, ask that too. -Beartrap

I also remember a couple comments made about Thompsonville, regarding the percentage of ethnic population. Someone posted the statistics from the town's website, I think.

I'd be intererested in views from local residients, like letters to the editor, etc. Anything ever been published like that?

I found Beartrap's comment about locals fearing DS pretty funny. Out here that sounds like childsplay. Tell the TV cowboy to come out west, we'd teach him some manners. Out here we sharpen our axes on the wind...and split the difference with what's left.

[Skyhook]

I found Beartrap's comment about locals fearing DS pretty funny. Out here that sounds like childsplay. Tell the TV cowboy to come out west, we'd teach him some manners. Out here we sharpen our axes on the wind...and split the difference with what's left.

LaurenceD, you sound just like my grandpa. He use to say things like that. But maybe not quite so poetic. I recall him saying "When things get too tough for everybody else, that's when us cowboys like it best."

This post has been edited by Skyhook: May 10 2007, 09:21 AM

[caribbean sda]

Out here we sharpen our axes on the wind...and split the difference with what's left.

...enough said!

[watchbird]

Thanks for that, wb. I think I'll post Beartrap's comments over here...from that link.

Clay, its not just the money to pay people off. Any individual who would dare to do as you have suggested will be publicly torn to pieces on 3ABN, Danny and his lawyers etc. will call their friends and family telling stories and claiming to have evidence of stuff, and we all know that Danny NEVER lets go. years later he will still be hounding that persons steps. He has done it to so many of us already that it is a well known, established fact with the 3ABN insiders, and many of the top church leadership know the same thing. Talk to the local people in the Thompsonville/West Frankfort community. They will say the same thing and tell you that it goes back 4 or 5 decades. They will also tell you that 3ABN is a cult commune and that any contact with 3ABN is conspicuously avoided by most locals. They will tell you that 3ABN and Danny Shelton have demonstrated beyond a doubt that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is a cult.

Open invitation. Come to Thompsonville and eat dinner at the Thompsonville Cafe, and just ask the other diners about 3ABN and Danny. Go to West Frankfort and have dinner at Hungrys on W. Main, and ask. Go to the barbershops, the lodges, the local churches of any denomination, the library, and ask. Ask the Summers family who donated the first two acres of property to Danny for 3ABN what they think about that donation now. Come on out here and ask.

Having asked them personally you will gerenally get an ear full. But ask if they would be willing to go public with this info and see what their reaction is. Ask them why they are so afraid of Danny; too afraid to go public. Yes, ask that too. -Beartrap

I found Beartrap's comment about locals fearing DS pretty funny. Out here that sounds like childsplay. Tell the TV cowboy to come out west, we'd teach him some manners. Out here we sharpen our axes on the wind...and split the difference with what's left.

Ah... but the question is... what happens when the wind is blown away by the cyberwind... and the axes themselves are borne away out of your hands?

Read it again, Laurence. Put yourselves in the shoes of the writer.... and know that he writes the true sentiments of MANY individuals... both lowly and highly placed. If you read with your heart you will find it anything but "funny".


As it is written in the book of SeaGull lore.....
"See that you do not estimate danger by the antics of a tiny cub.... but take you heed to the Tiger mom hovering protectively nearby."


.................................

[PeacefulBe]

On February 28, 2007, Bystander shared his perspective of Thompsonville:

Richard, don't twist my words. First of all 3abn didn't say it, I did. Second of all, I too, grew up in a farming community and have nothing against farmers. I do have something against a town of 600 people that try to push religious entities out by trying to tax what shouldn't be taxed, by referring to SDA's as weirdo's and oh, did I mention, they don't like other races there. They didn't have any ethnic variety until 3abn. The ministry has brought in african americans, spanish, puerto rican, and the community doesn't like it. There is still a KKK in the county. Now that is disgusting.

To which husbandoftheyear posted in reply:
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=181347

It is true that Thompsonville is a small town.

It is true that the community is predominately inhabited by whites.

It is true that the KKK had a very large following in Southern Illinois, but it is not centered in Thompsonville. They haven't had a rally since the early 90s (in Benton BTW).

Your comment on how 3ABN has brought other nationalities into 3ABN is a farce at best. Yes, there are people from all over the world that come to 3ABN to do programs, but they don't settle in Thompsonville. I only know of one hispanic family that live in Thompsonville. Most (like 95%+) of the non-whites that work at 3ABN live outside of Thompsonville. So the local government obviously couldn't have been outraged because of that.

I know several people on the city board that I talked to when they asked for 3ABN to be taxed. It was not out of malice or racism as you would have us believe.

Perhaps they were a little upset when (white) 3ABN emplyees were caught stealing electricity from the city among other things...? Perhaps it's the way that many of the businesses were treated so poorly by 3ABN that made them realize that the station was not really a ministry but a business disguised as a ministry. And obviously the legal system agreed.

I asked Duane Clem if Bystander's characterization of Thompsonville was accurate and he posted:

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...mp;#entry181390

No. Thompsonville as a whole doesn't have a problem with SDAs or people from other countries. What they don't like about 3ABN is -- Danny Shelton.

I hope that HOTY and Duane Clem will add more of their perspectives.

[LaurenceD]

Read it again, Laurence. Put yourselves in the shoes of the writer.... and know that he writes the true sentiments of MANY individuals... both lowly and highly placed. If you read with your heart you will find it anything but "funny".

Oh, I believe Beartrap all the way. Out here we'd find it a joke it some TV personality tried to intimidate us the way DS has the locals. We'd think it was funny, childish. Any urban cowbay that came out on the high desert around here, and couldn't find a quick cure for verbal diarrhea, would have to pony up and hit the highway where he came from. We wouldn't tolerate that for one minute.

(for Skyhook: and like my grandfather use to say, "his hat blew off a manure pile and he went to look for it.") lol!

**********

I do have something against a town of 600 people that try to push religious entities out by trying to tax what shouldn't be taxed

Thanks for the links, PB. Good stuff. Now I can rest assure that Bystander and all his ilk have no idea what they were doing wrong when the judge ruled against them. If they do understand what they were doing wrong, not one of the defenders has ever offered even a clue.

[ex3ABNemployee]

I hope that HOTY and Duane Clem will add more of their perspectives.

Your wish is my command....

I was talking to someone just last week about 3ABN. Keep in mind that this man is not even a Christian. He has worked for Danny and 3ABN in the past, and he said that he believed that 3ABN would "go down" if steps weren't taken to remove Danny. He doesn't want to see the ministry fold and has nothing against foreigners or SDAs.

Don't believe all the bilge about people in Thompsonville hating 3ABN because of SDAs or people from other countries. It's nonsense.

[PeacefulBe]

Your wish is my command....

I was talking to someone just last week about 3ABN. Keep in mind that this man is not even a Christian. He has worked for Danny and 3ABN in the past, and he said that he believed that 3ABN would "go down" if steps weren't taken to remove Danny. He doesn't want to see the ministry fold and has nothing against foreigners or SDAs.

Don't believe all the bilge about people in Thompsonville hating 3ABN because of SDAs or people from other countries. It's nonsense.

Duane,

Thank you!

[Eirene]

Your wish is my command....

I was talking to someone just last week about 3ABN. Keep in mind that this man is not even a Christian. He has worked for Danny and 3ABN in the past, and he said that he believed that 3ABN would "go down" if steps weren't taken to remove Danny. He doesn't want to see the ministry fold and has nothing against foreigners or SDAs.

Don't believe all the bilge about people in Thompsonville hating 3ABN because of SDAs or people from other countries. It's nonsense.

Well Duane, that would be a matter of opinion wouldn't it? You state it as if it were a factual conclusion when it is not. I have been to T'ville also. I have ate at the restaurant that is the beehive of gossip and also where you can learn a lot about the locals vs 3abn. I have heard the N word being spouted more than once. I have also heard about the "outsiders" that 3abn has brought in. I was also told by a local that did not know I knew anything about 3abn that they were an sda cult and had hidden tunnels and weapons!! They didn't like all the property that 3abn had purchased through the years and yet it was the locals that sold it to them.
Let's use a little sense here. We have a community of 600 people and where things have stayed the same for as long as anyone can remember. The old timers like it that way. Then along comes a massive complex that eventually grows to 140 + employees and that disturbs the whole way of things. Put that together with the fact of the racial bias there and the name of sda's who some still connect with David Koresh, and you have something to gripe and gossip about while you're having your daily cup of coffee and piece of pie.
There are a few who do think it is an asset to have 3abn there because of the big economy boost it gives the community. Those are usually the younger ones that are trying to build up the town and know things have to change to do that.
Think about the spin that others have put on this. Danny really has no contact with those locals other than at the feed store and the Adventist health food restaurant where it is usually just employees of 3abn and Adventist. So one would ask how Danny himself could be treating anyone so terrible that they hate 3abn over it? Or that Danny has done something so horrible to someone that it has caused ill will in the whole town? Please....
Then there is Duane's report that a NON christian who USED to work for 3abn said if DS wasn't put out, HE felt it would go down. Let's examine that.
If he is a non christian then he isn't privy at all to the adventist circles, conference, leadership, ect. So, how could he possibly have evidence to form such an opinion? Everybody has an opinion but it only counts if they have valid information, credible sources and at least some, first hand information of the subject matter.

If he was referring to the opinions of some of those in T'ville, that would mean nothing since those people could do nothing whatsoever to make a change in leadership.

Either way, repeating what this person said and his "opinion" adds up to a big fat zero.
If something like this would have come from our side, the people here would have jumped all over us for trying to make a point from someone who knows nothing.

This post has been edited by Eirene: May 11 2007, 12:11 PM

[princessdi]

So, where is 3ABN's community out reach program. Danny( and Linda) should have come to town as christians and becoming a part of that community. The inhabiatants didn't get 3ABN were isolated from the them out of the blue. they look like and act like a "compound" and a cult. Danny even took the church amoved it onto his land. So now the church isn't even a part of or serving the community. The church is not approachable, as it should be. It was 3ABN's responsiblity to come in as part of the community, as a christian community within the community. You know letting their light so shine and all.........Ok, so if this post was to help Danny out, maybe you should not have posted it.

[Pickle]

Well Eirene, I had one local tell me that Danny had personally threatened them with drowning or hanging if they didn't back off of the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations.

Now since after talking to lots of people only one has told me that, there is a possibility that that person was mistaken, but given everything else that's going on, you never know.

[PeacefulBe]

Eirene,
Your post raises some questions in my mind...

Well Duane, that would be a matter of opinion wouldn't it? You state it as if it were a factual conclusion when it is not. I have been to T'ville also. I have ate at the restaurant that is the beehive of gossip and also where you can learn a lot about the locals vs 3abn. I have heard the N word being spouted more than once. I have also heard about the "outsiders" that 3abn has brought in. I was also told by a local that did not know I knew anything about 3abn that they were an sda cult and had hidden tunnels and weapons!! They didn't like all the property that 3abn had purchased through the years and yet it was the locals that sold it to them.

1. How much time have you spent in T'ville?
2. How many of the T'ville residents have you spoken with?
3. What did you say to the ones spouting the "N" word more than once?
4. Was it a T'ville resident that told you about the "outsiders" 3abn has brought in?
5. Did you attempt to show the local who felt 3abn was a cult with hidden tunnels and weapons that the perception was inaccurate?

Let's use a little sense here. We have a community of 600 people and where things have stayed the same for as long as anyone can remember. The old timers like it that way. Then along comes a massive complex that eventually grows to 140 + employees and that disturbs the whole way of things. Put that together with the fact of the racial bias there and the name of sda's who some still connect with David Koresh, and you have something to gripe and gossip about while you're having your daily cup of coffee and piece of pie.
There are a few who do think it is an asset to have 3abn there because of the big economy boost it gives the community. Those are usually the younger ones that are trying to build up the town and know things have to change to do that.

I'm certain all of us are familiar with those older folks who are set in their ways. (Cover your eyes Aletheia, for I'm going to say it again)
Every one of those bigoted, set-in-their-ways folk are precious to Jesus. He died for them just as surely as He died for those inside the 3abn "compound". Pray, pray, pray that everyone inside of 3abn will look outside the property line and see those T'ville residents who are angry at and suspicious of 3abn with Jesus' eyes. Rejoice that the younger generation sees the economic value of 3abn to their town and knows the town needs to change. Get out there and show both sets of T'ville folk what it means to be a Seventh-day Adventist Christian. Connect with them!

Think about the spin that others have put on this. Danny really has no contact with those locals other than at the feed store and the Adventist health food restaurant where it is usually just employees of 3abn and Adventist. So one would ask how Danny himself could be treating anyone so terrible that they hate 3abn over it? Or that Danny has done something so horrible to someone that it has caused ill will in the whole town? Please....
Then there is Duane's report that a NON christian who USED to work for 3abn said if DS wasn't put out, HE felt it would go down. Let's examine that.
If he is a non christian then he isn't privy at all to the adventist circles, conference, leadership, ect. So, how could he possibly have evidence to form such an opinion? Everybody has an opinion but it only counts if they have valid information, credible sources and at least some, first hand information of the subject matter.

If he was referring to the opinions of some of those in T'ville, that would mean nothing since those people could do nothing whatsoever to make a change in leadership.

Either way, repeating what this person said and his "opinion" adds up to a big fat zero.
If something like this would have come from our side, the people here would have jumped all over us for trying to make a point from someone who knows nothing.

1. WHY?! Why has Danny had no contact with those locals other than the feed store and the restaurant? See Di's response on this one!!!!
2. If Danny has not been unkind to anyone and a town has developed such ill will one would have to ask why. Is the whole town evil? That seems unlikely.
3. How would not being privy to adventist circles, conferences and leadership impede this non-christian's ability to form an opinion on Danny's character? Danny's actions towards this person and others would speak far more loudly than anything anyone in adventist circles, the conference or leadership could say. Personal experience would count as credible sources, Eirene. I don't think you came anywhere close to making your case against Duane's non-Christian former 3abn employee contact's opinion.
4. Your use of the word "ect." is of great interest.