Save3abn Website Uses Blackmail Tactics, 3abn better not go to Court! Options

[husbandoftheyear]

(Quote from Bystander)
Richard, don't twist my words. First of all 3abn didn't say it, I did. Second of all, I too, grew up in a farming community and have nothing against farmers. I do have something against a town of 600 people that try to push religious entities out by trying to tax what shouldn't be taxed, by referring to SDA's as weirdo's and oh, did I mention, they don't like other races there. They didn't have any ethnic variety until 3abn. The ministry has brought in african americans, spanish, puerto rican, and the community doesn't like it. There is still a KKK in the county. Now that is disgusting.

Duane,
From your point of view as a community member, is Bystander's characterization of Thompsonville an accurate one?

PB

It is true that Thompsonville is a small town.

It is true that the community is predominately inhabited by whites.

It is true that the KKK had a very large following in Southern Illinois, but it is not centered in Thompsonville. They haven't had a rally since the early 90s (in Benton BTW).

Your comment on how 3ABN has brought other nationalities into 3ABN is a farce at best. Yes, there are people from all over the world that come to 3ABN to do programs, but they don't settle in Thompsonville. I only know of one hispanic family that live in Thompsonville. Most (like 95%+) of the non-whites that work at 3ABN live outside of Thompsonville. So the local government obviously couldn't have been outraged because of that.

I know several people on the city board that I talked to when they asked for 3ABN to be taxed. It was not out of malice or racism as you would have us believe.

Perhaps they were a little upset when (white) 3ABN emplyees were caught stealing electricity from the city among other things...? Perhaps it's the way that many of the businesses were treated so poorly by 3ABN that made them realize that the station was not really a ministry but a business disguised as a ministry. And obviously the legal system agreed.

This post has been edited by husbandoftheyear: Feb 28 2007, 09:09 PM

[Richard Sherwin]

Clay it's not often I say much against the SDA church however I have to say that we, how do you put it? Look through Adventist eyes? Anyhow we as a church many times come across as condencending and uncaring towards our non SDA communities. A few years ago at our Michigan camp meeting, which has a county road running through it, the preachers took it upon themselves to set up road blocks and shut down that road one Sabbath. A few days later the preachers packed up their tents and went home, and those of us that live here had to put up with the anger of the locals who were quite offended by the actions of the church. It's this kind of attitude that causes us much harm and I have a feeling it's the same kinds of attitude that 3abn might have towards the community where they are. Ok, off my soapbox.

Richard

sounds like this would have been a good opportunity to shun the appearance of evil? Reach out to the community sooner? actually "help" those in that community? as opposed to what? being separate and aloof?

[erik]

Erik, it is my understanding that one major item than contributed to the ruling was a huge oversite and the attorney's side and the judges side. If I get this correctly, somehow, the judge was given the board records from the beginning years of 3abn when only 6 people were on the board. In the very first stages those people were Danny, Linda, Kenny , his wife and the boys mother and stepfather. (I could have the stepfather wrong) The board expanded quickly over time and different changes were made but anyway, the judge based some of her decisions on what she thought was a family board. Somebody dropped the ball all the way around. Since the ruling had already been handed down, there was no alternative but to appeal which they did and are, but these kinds of cases take years. As you can see the other case was in 2004, so it has already been 3 years. 3abn did at least 1 program on this situation and maybe 2 because the final outcome could affect religious organizations everywhere as far as tax status goes. Contrary to what some are trying to imply, this had nothing to do with "Danny won't pay his taxes." That is ludicrous. It is about a peon town trying to tax religious entities that had not been taxed before.
If Danny was just trying to get out of tax paying, 3abn could have moved to Marion, IL, about 18 miles from T'ville, where the mayor offered them all kinds of incentives to come there. He guaranteed they would be treated "right" as other ministries and church schools in the area are. In other words, they wouldn't have had a tax problem there. He welcomed the jobs that 3abn provides and realized that at times, people come from all parts of the world to see or be on 3abn and that generates business for the whole town. T'vill on the other hand, appears to be a town of farmers that doesn't want outsiders, much less SDA's.

Bystander,

for the record i do not think this case is about danny not wanting to pay his taxes, nor i am sure it is about a small town going after 3 abn, personally think it is more about God trying to send a message to 3abn.



By the way the judge was from where? and if god was not trying to send a message do not you think he could have made sure the lawyers did not drop the ball.?


Erik

[PrincessDrRe]

Clay it's not often I say much against the SDA church however I have to say that we, how do you put it? Look through Adventist eyes? Anyhow we as a church many times come across as condencending and uncaring towards our non SDA communities. A few years ago at our Michigan camp meeting, which has a county road running through it, the preachers took it upon themselves to set up road blocks and shut down that road one Sabbath. A few days later the preachers packed up their tents and went home, and those of us that live here had to put up with the anger of the locals who were quite offended by the actions of the church. It's this kind of attitude that causes us much harm and I have a feeling it's the same kinds of attitude that 3abn might have towards the community where they are. Ok, off my soapbox.

[Pickle]

What I heard, Bystander, who does anything but stand by, is that a minimum amount of discovery would have resulted in far worse consequences for 3ABN. And so perhaps, once again, the truth is the opposite of what Danny has said, namely, that the State didn't do its job correctly, and that is why 3ABN came out as well as they did.

[ex3ABNemployee]

Duane,
From your point of view as a community member, is Bystander's characterization of Thompsonville an accurate one?

PB

No. Thompsonville as a whole doesn't have a problem with SDAs or people from other countries. What they don't like about 3ABN is -- Danny Shelton.

[LaurenceD]

You couldn't be more wrong. 3abn's volunteers are mostly older retired people that have moved to the area or are just passing through in their campers and will stop for several weeks, or months. There are approx 150 people on the payrol

BTW, What is the minimum wage in Illinois, and are there corporate breaks for having employees hired as less than full-time?

You don't have to respond to my query, Bystander. I looked it up.

Illinois Business Journal, December 13, 2004
On Jan. 1, the second phase of a two-phase wage increase will take effect, raising Illinois' minimum wage by a total of $1.35. On Jan. 1, 2003 under the provisions of Senate Bill 600, the amount increased 35 cents from $5.15 to $5.50; on Jan. 1, 2004, the level will rise an additional dollar to bring the state's new minimum wage to $6.50 for employees aged 18 and older.

My question was headed in a certain direction and I found an answer to it in another thread...

There is a history of 3ABN workers with families receiving goods from WIC, a government program that provides food for low income families to ensure proper nuitrition for mothers and young children. So while Danny sits up in his southern Illinois style mansion with a swimming pool and jacuzzi, having the income to eat whatever he desires, workers get their “cake” from the Welfare system.

Danny gets a brand new truck every year, not one of those cheap things, but a big one with power something in the $30,000+ range, of course that is necessary to pull a horse trailer. -source

So, my question is to you, how and why would you just pick out these few things that appears to make 3abn look bad?

Perhaps you would be so kind as to point out the most positive statements, if there are any, wwjd.

wwjd, you don't have to point out the good things Judge Rowe had to say about 3abn in her Recommendation. I read it again, and I only found one, and it may not be that good.

[Johann]

wwjd, you don't have to point out the good things Judge Rowe had to say about 3abn in her Recommendation. I read it again, and I only found one, and it may not be that good.

It's like I hear a naughty boy in the misty forest whining, Everybody is against me! But in reality the boy puts on boots with extra high heels and shouts with deliberate conviction,

- We are all being persecuted. You know we have the same faith and are in the same boat. Let's be in this together and join forces. You just give me all your money, all of your property, all of your support, and I'll fight the fight for you all. I'll even throw some coins to my old high school basketball team to prevent them from attacking us. I'll fly high up in the sky where the sun always shines, and I'll pick up your contribution next time I pass by.

- Don't give any of your funds to your church. They are not even proclaiming the true message! Even HOPE once reported on the social work of the Catholic Church in San Fransisco, and my man Klaus Nybo in Scandinavia also heard HOPE once speak favorably about something the Lutheran Church was doing. So you cannot trust HOPE nor the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

- The only one in the world you can trust is me and my method of preaching. Just look at all of the other preachers who are supporting me right now. My enemies are just a small insignificant group and I am not bothered by their comments.

* * *
If you are in doubt I'll post some material Danny has written to me. Or I'll bring it for the hearing?

This post has been edited by Johann: Mar 1 2007, 03:51 PM

[LaurenceD]

...it is my understanding that one major item than contributed to the ruling was a huge oversite and the attorney's side and the judges side. If I get this correctly, somehow, the judge was given the board records from the beginning years of 3abn when only 6 people were on the board.

Johann (or anyone), have any idea why this character, Bystander, claims it was a "huge oversite"--as if that had some bearing on the decision? I showed him where she referred to "eleven or twelve" members on the board in 2000-2001, but he still seemed stuck on it.

[watchbird]

Johann (or anyone), have any idea why this character, Bystander, claims it was a "huge oversite"--as if that had some bearing on the decision? I showed him where she referred to "eleven or twelve" members on the board in 2000-2001, but he still seemed stuck on it.

Sure, Laurence... this one is easy. Bystander is a Dannyecho, so anything that is not the way Danny wants it is at the very least a "huge oversight"-- which is only a prelude to further explaining that it is because of prejudice, an introduction to using it as an example of persecution, and another paving stone on the road to martyrdom.

Next question......



Carry on....... .................

[lurker]

By the way, we have heard the "Danny had a dream" story so many times it is taken for granted as true. Danny wanted to be a country western/gospel singer and 3ABN was a place to be seen and heard. Not only was Linda a co founder, Kenny et al were all in it at the start were they not? The original board members spoken of in the hearing- that is.

[LaurenceD]

Next question?

Sure. In light of the Judges remarks...

"I must conclude from the evidence of record, that applicant is controlled by Danny and Linda Shelton, and all final decisions are made by them and not by a disinterested impartial board of directors."

...why wouldn't this corporation try to fully correct this perception of impartiality, or appearance of unfariness and conflict of interest, by having a board made up entirely of impartial members? For example, the GM never sits on the board and votes. A General Manager, along with the board chairman and president, may present an agenda item to the board for approval. You know what I mean? Administration has to be separate from a board.

This is the very reason gov't gets accused of being corrupt sometimes, so gov't doesn't allow dual office holding. You'd think religious organization would want the appearance of being even fairer.

:shrug:

[LaurenceD]

Not only was Linda a co founder, Kenny et al were all in it at the start were they not? The original board members spoken of in the hearing- that is.

"Director" would (should) be different than "boardmember." None of the board members were revealed in the record, except chairman Walt Thompson. The following is quoted from the Recommendation, page 6...

The four directors of the corporation listed in the articles are Danny L. Shelton,
Kenneth Joel Shelton, Linda Shelton, and Emma Lou Shelton2. (Applicant’s Ex. No. 2)
9. The officers of the applicant are a chairman and chairman-elect of the board; a
president, elected by the board; one or more vice presidents; a secretary; and treasurer. The
board chairman is the chief policy officer of the corporation. The president is the chief executive
officer of the corporation and the direct executive representative of the board in the management
of applicant. (Applicant’s Ex. No. 3)
10. The president’s duties include carrying out all policies established by the board and
advising on the formation of those policies; developing a plan for the conduct of activities of the
corporation and recommending changes when necessary; preparing, reviewing, and evaluating
written plans for specific objectives of applicant; preparing the annual budget; selecting,
employing, supervising, and discharging personnel; maintaining physical properties; supervising
the financial affairs of applicant; attending meetings and presenting periodic reports of the
applicant; attending meetings of the board and serving as an ex officio member of committees;
being a member of the executive committee; and acting as a liaison for the corporation. He is
also the designee: “To affix the signature of the Corporation to all papers and instruments,
including promissory notes of the Corporation in writing that may require the same.”
(Applicant’s Ex. No. 3; Tr. pp. 95-96)
11. The president designates the duties of the vice president. The secretary performs
duties customarily performed by or required of corporate secretaries. (Applicant’s Ex. No. 3)
12. Danny Shelton is the president of applicant. Linda Shelton is the vice president.
Neither Linda nor Danny is an ordained minister. (Applicant’s Ex. No. 12; Tr. pp. 36, 39, 590-
591)

2 No information was offered as to who Emma Lou and Kenneth Joel Shelton are. The oral testimony was that in
2000 and 2001, applicant’s eleven to twelve member board was made up of Seventh-day Adventists laymen,
business people, church employees, and former church employees. Some of applicant’s board members are and
were Seventh-day Adventists’ pastors. The board meets 3-5 times a year. (Tr. pp. 92-95, Danny Shelton; Tr. pp.
499-501, Walter Thompson). The names of the board members, other than Mr. Thompson, in 2000 and 2001 were
not in evidence and, in fact, applicant only submitted the names of Danny Shelton, Linda Shelton, Kenneth Joel
Shelton, and Emma Lou Shelton as the four directors of 3 ABN.

http://www.revenue.state.il.us/legalinform...s/pt/pt04-1.pdf

[lurker]

Does anyone know how to get a copy of the original articles of incorporation? 3ABN started out as Broadcast Communications Service Inc., I believe. But the original articles for 3ABN would be ok too.

This post has been edited by lurker: Mar 2 2007, 02:55 PM

[watchbird]

Next question?

Sure. In light of the Judges remarks...

"I must conclude from the evidence of record, that applicant is controlled by Danny and Linda Shelton, and all final decisions are made by them and not by a disinterested impartial board of directors."

...why wouldn't this corporation try to fully correct this perception of impartiality, or appearance of unfariness and conflict of interest, by having a board made up entirely of impartial members? For example, the GM never sits on the board and votes. A General Manager, along with the board chairman and president, may present an agenda item to the board for approval. You know what I mean? Administration has to be separate from a board.

This is the very reason gov't gets accused of being corrupt sometimes, so gov't doesn't allow dual office holding. You'd think religious organization would want the appearance of being even fairer.

:shrug:

I agree.. I'd think, and you'd think.... but the facts don't bow to scruples such as held by you or me. As for what a "religious organization would want" .... take a clue from the Liberty Magazine article that was posted here just recently, and note how any application of civil law to a religious organization is seen to be encroaching upon "religious liberty"... and a harbinger of religious persecution soon to come.

For information on the relationship of the board to the president..... again I send you back to the threads. You'll find reports on this in Sister's history narratives, along with confirming comments by others. You will find that Danny fully controls his board, and that they know it and acknowledge it. The official word is that the "board of Directors does not micro-manage the day to day affairs of 3abn". That is interpreted to mean that they do not act contrary to Danny's wishes, nor would they even think of contramanding an order he has already given.

If you will dig a little deeper into the first person testimonies here on the board, you will also find that while Linda may have been given some equal status in the decision making process, that in actuallity, the buck stops... and starts.... only one place in 3abn.... on the desk in the President's office.

And along the way, surely you will notice that the name of the game is spelled "control". And a perception of impartiality is no where near so effective in that game as is the perception of power.

"Director" would (should) be different than "boardmember."

You will find some very interesting things happening to these terms as you go along into other legal documents. At the present it seems as though they do not have any "boardmembers" in the sense of having a corporate Board. There is only a "Board of Directors". I'll let you figure that one out and explain it to me.